OT - 6.5mm questions for a friend of mine...

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:00 pm

OK, my gunshop dealer buddy is looking at rebarreling a M78 Remington that came into his shop - already has a Jewel trigger installed and it's chambered for 30-06. I saw this and almost bought it - $295 (before he knew the Jewel was in there). Anyway, he's been wanting a 6.5mm for some time since it's his opinion that this is the ideal caliber for whitetails (no comments on that please)

His questions are this:

1) Rechamber to 6.5x06 (what I recommend to avoid feeding prob.s) or 6.5x.284 (a dang good cartridge to be sure)

2) How long for the barrel? (I said 24")

3) What twist rate? He wants it optimized for 140 grain bullets of any construction (including TSX)? I said 1:8 or 1:8.5 like the Swede Mausers.

4) What hunting bullets in 140 grain weight do you recommend?

Now, he also has another Remington 700 that he's thinking of having rechambered to .260 Rem (he didn't say but I think it's currently a .308).
He wants this one set-up for Berger 130 grain bullets.

He has a buddy with a Douglas barrel for a Sako action that has a 1:10 twist - the thread pitch is the same but some material would have to be taken off the chamber end and the chamber recut and extractor notch made for the Reminton action.

Question here:

What do you guys think of the 1:10 twist rate and the Berger 130 grain bullets?

I thought that was most probably OK but not optimal. The Berger catalog lists the "Minimum Twist" for these bullets as 1:10.

I told him I'd go with the same twist as the other 6.5 - 1:8 or 1:8.5.

I said that the Swedes use 1:8.5 and that they've been building 6.5x55 guns for over 100 years and counting....

Comments from experience preferred

Please cite any referrences I can print for him too if possible.

Thanks fellas.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:37 pm

I have a Swede 6.5 and the limiting factor with the lighter bullets is not the twist rate but the length of the throat/leade which was designed for the long RNs of 160 gr. If that bullet doesn't excite him, then a shorter throat with the 1 in 8 twist will do him well. The .260 Rem is a ballistic twin of the 6.5x55 Swedish cartridge albeit MOST Swedish rifles are based on actions with lower suggested average pressure maximums. The advantage to the .260 Rem is the common case head. Dittos for the 6.5-06.

The 6.5 Swede and .260 Rem utilize standard cup-and-core bullets from the major makers with no problems. If I was using a 6.5-06 with a 24" barrel and modern powders I might look at any of the premium designs. While I wouldn't feel comfortable tying my rifle design to a specific bullet (or bullet weight for that matter) it might be good for him to look at bullets having no lead content and designing his rifle to be able to utilize those. I think that for better or worse, lead free projectiles are the coming thing.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:29 pm

IIRC the swede will out do the 260 with the 160grners. My swede did very well with 95grn v-max's and 139grn sst (Hornady).
As H says with the extra umph from them cats a tougher bullet may be required but then again for use on W tails may be not

Nath.
On a side note I often wondered what a 6.5 or 260/3030 Wcat would be like out of a long barrel 94, sweet I bet

Nath.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:47 pm

My 6.5-06 is a 26" medium varmit barrel from E.R.Shaw
Cyrogeniclly treated by Blackstar.
I will need time to dig up the twist, will get back to you.
Tell him to do it, he will love it.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:26 pm

Nath wrote:IIRC the swede will out do the 260 with the 160grners. My swede did very well with 95grn v-max's and 139grn sst (Hornady).
As H says with the extra umph from them cats a tougher bullet may be required but then again for use on W tails may be not
Nath.
On a side note I often wondered what a 6.5 or 260/3030 Wcat would be like out of a long barrel 94, sweet I bet
Nath.

There are several 6.5mm wildcats on the .30-30 case. Unfortunately, the edge in bore expansion ratio goes to the 7-30 Waters and they are a bit less flexible than the 7-30 Waters.

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Sat May 10, 2008 3:47 pm

The 6.5-284 is a sweetheart of a cartridge ... two of my friends (brothers) have them. There is one point of caution however. The 284 case is basically of magnun diameter so the feed rails might need modified and the magazine follower might need changed.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:13 pm

Thats why I stayed with the 06 case, no alteration, plenty of case capacity

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat May 10, 2008 4:16 pm

Berger should know what twist you need to shoot his bullets. I have read that the 10 twist is borderline with 140's in the 6.5x55 and the 256 Newton. The 6.5-06 has a little more capacity and will drive them a little faster and stabilize them better. I guess if I was limited to a 6.5-06 or 6.5-284, I would go with the 6.5-06 just because of all the 30-06 brass I have. That and the feeding might be simpler.

I have killed over 20 deer with a 264 Win Mag and 120 grain Barnes X-bullets. I have never had one stay inside a deer no matter what angle or what bone they hit or what distance they were shot at. I distrust cup and core 6.5 bullets at 264 velocities. They may well be fine at 6.5-06 velocities but if the man wants to use a premium bullet he can do no better than the 120 Barnes. There isn't any need for a heavier bullet if he uses the Barnes. Incidentally the 120 Barnes is almost exactly the same length as a 140 Hornady. The 264 has a 1-9" twist.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:22 pm

I had a 6.5 Swede for a while and it was one sweet shooter. My initial response would be, why mess with success?

You'd be taking a great cartridge and pairing it with an even better action.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Sat May 10, 2008 5:39 pm

The classic metric cartridge's reputation(s) on game, like the 7X57 & the 6.5X55, were built on using a heavy-for-the-caliber slug.

The 175gr .284 in the 7X57 & the 156/160gr in the 6.5X55 won't set the same "speed records" that the medium and lighter weight bullets will - but they hit with much more authority. The 6.5x55 is the preferred European Moose (Elg) cartridge - where it "made it's bones", as well as on the target ranges of Europe.

My 6.5X55 M70 Featherweight Classic happens to shoot Norma factory 156gr Onyx ammo under minute-of-angle - well under.

I would have that rifle's boltface opened the slight amount needed for the 6.5X55 & the extractor reworked if it was needed, and then go with a 22"-24" barrel - all that's really needed.
IMO, the M-78's clip ought to feed the shells OK.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:08 pm

Thanks for the replies gents - I will be printing this after it's "done" and giving to my buddy.

He is pretty well set on 6.5-06 or 6.5-284 and .260 Rem for sure in the other rifle.

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:15 pm

I cant answer all your questions, but I have input on a couple. The 6.5-06 is a tremendous Whitetail round, and Mule deer or Antelope. If he wants it for strictly Long range I would put a 26" barrel, but for all around use the 24" gets the nod. As far as a Bullet recommendation in 140 grains my favorite is the Noslers. Ballistic tips are extremely accurate, and either Accubonds or Partitions for closer shooting. I have read where the 6.5's are also great in heavy Brush due to their High Sectional density. I have one myself, and love it. Not sure of the twist rate, would have to ask my gun smith.

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:59 am

Since it has a long action , I would go with a 6.8mm .....
THE 270 WINCHESTER