POLITICS - Charges dropped, children still kidnapped by gov

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:38 am

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080503/D90E1EFO1.html

Warrant dropped against man named in polygamist retreat raid

ELDORADO, Texas (AP) - An arrest warrant has been dropped for a man thought to be the husband of a teenage girl whose report of abuse triggered a raid on a polygamous sect's Texas compound, authorities said Friday.

A Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman would not say why the warrant was dropped for Dale E. Barlow, 50, who lives in Colorado City, Ariz. Barlow has denied knowing the 16-year-old girl who called a crisis center.

The girl reported that she was a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and that she was beaten and raped at the sect's Eldorado ranch.

An investigation led to the April 3 raid, in which state welfare workers took 463 children living at the Yearning For Zion Ranch. A boy was born to one of the sect's mothers Tuesday; he and the other children remain in state custody.

Authorities have not located the 16-year-old girl and are investigating the source of the call.

Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger would not say when the warrant for Barlow was dropped, only that "it is no longer active."

Rob Parker, an FLDS spokesman, said the dropped warrant shows the weakness of the state's case against residents of the ranch.

"I think that's just one more piece of evidence that the whole basis on which this raid was premised was unfounded and was inadequately checked out, to the formulation of what basically amounted to an army that went in there and took their children," Parker said.

The phone number used to call the crisis center is the same one once used by a Colorado woman, identified as 33-year-old Rozita Swinton of Colorado Springs, accused of making previous false reports of abuse.

Investigators have not said whether Swinton made the call to Texas authorities, though Vinger said she is "still considered a person of interest."

"There is an investigation centering on that," Vinger said. "We have quite a bit of evidence that still needs to be analyzed."

A judge has ruled that children removed from the ranch should stay in state custody until all can have a hearing.

Child welfare officials told the judge the children were living in an authoritarian environment that left girls at risk of sexual abuse and raised boys to become sexual perpetrators.

The FLDS is a group that splintered from the Mormon Church, which does not recognize the sect and disavows polygamy.

In Utah, members of the polygamous church have asked the state's governor to intervene in its fight with Texas authorities over the custody the children.

A letter written by FLDS elder Willie Jessop says Texas officials are rejecting Utah-issued birth certificates and other documents as "fake."

The letter asks Gov. Jon Huntsman to exercise his executive authority to assist in protecting the civil rights of native Utahns and FLDS members. FLDS parents claim they have been denied their due process by the Texas courts.

"Without your leadership and personal intervention in this matter, the parental rights of every Utah family is at risk," Jessop wrote.

Huntsman spokeswoman Lisa Roskelly said the governor has been in contact with Jessop and was reviewing his request.

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:52 am

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr28/ ... at,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353229,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353616,00.html

Kismet · Post by **Kismet** » Mon May 05, 2008 7:59 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Warrant dropped against man named in polygamist retreat raid.

Just a reminder, as was clearly articulated in a prior thread, criminal proceedings (the arrest warrant) are totally separate from the child protection issues (the "kidnapping").

Michael in NH

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:30 pm

And I still say that if the Child Protective Services tells me anything, I wouldn't believe it until it was told to me by someone with a better reputation. An alcoholic drug abuser is more trustworthy in my experience than is a CPS worker. I have filled too many prescriptions for children who are in foster care who have more bruises than when they came to the foster care. CPS always tells me to mind my own business or be prosecuted for interfering when I report it. Every single one of these children that I have seen give the impression that they are miserable. What kind of a society are when we take children from bad and put them into worse situations?

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:33 pm

CPS is like a woman scorned. They will say or do anything to get their way.

If they have a feeling you might have done something wrong, watch out.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:50 pm

I'm sure CPS can be a tough job - really trying on one's soul. Doing it right though might be one of the most rewarding calls one could have, though with the way the system is rigged against working properly/effectively, I doubt this is the case. I've read more than once of CPS workers abusing their power and destroying good families. This is a tough one - we all want to see children who are truly in harm's way saved, yet none of us want to see the state have enough power to take one's children on a whim.

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Mon May 05, 2008 11:16 pm

El Mac wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr28/ ... at,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353229,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353616,00.html

So what is your point?
Under that criteria the authorities should raid most of the housing projects in the major cities and our local high school and middle schoolwhere at 10 girls between the ages of 13 and 17 have given birth to children this year.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue May 06, 2008 7:59 am

JohnnyReb wrote:
El Mac wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr28/ ... at,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353229,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353616,00.html
So what is your point?
Under that criteria the authorities should raid most of the housing projects in the major cities and our local high school and middle schoolwhere at 10 girls between the ages of 13 and 17 have given birth to children this year.

Especially since many of those pregnancies are by the same "Baby Daddy"...

There are kids in my wife's Grade School who literally are siblings but don't know it. What do you call that if not "legal" poligyny...

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:09 am

JohnnyReb wrote:So what is your point?

Well, if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand. Clearly.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:13 am

This whole incident sure brings out the absolute worst of our society doesn't it? It is a proverbial witch hunt. With this type of logic by the 'authorities', half of WV, Tenn, and Ky would have been locked up in the first half of the last century.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:19 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:I'm sure CPS can be a tough job - really trying on one's soul. Doing it right though might be one of the most rewarding calls one could have, though with the way the system is rigged against working properly/effectively, I doubt this is the case. I've read more than once of CPS workers abusing their power and destroying good families. This is a tough one - we all want to see children who are truly in harm's way saved, yet none of us want to see the state have enough power to take one's children on a whim.

+1! That about sums it up for me too.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:28 am

piller wrote:And I still say that if the Child Protective Services tells me anything, I wouldn't believe it until it was told to me by someone with a better reputation. An alcoholic drug abuser is more trustworthy in my experience than is a CPS worker. I have filled too many prescriptions for children who are in foster care who have more bruises than when they came to the foster care. CPS always tells me to mind my own business or be prosecuted for interfering when I report it. Every single one of these children that I have seen give the impression that they are miserable. What kind of a society are when we take children from bad and put them into worse situations?

Because they are now "in the system" and the government gets to claim they are "helping" by spending our tax dollars.

The biggest problem for the Government is when people are NOT "in the system" - and if they have half an excuse they will get them there - by force if necessary.

But if the poor kid is already "in the system", it doesn't really matter whether or not they get pregnant or who impregnates them - it's more Numbers for the tax-stealing number whores.

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Tue May 06, 2008 10:32 am

I hear that WalMart is running a special on Reynolds Wrap...

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:45 am

El Mac...I'm serious, just looked up the Federal statistics, the AVERAGE age of a first time Mom in Appalachia was 16.2 years of age up until 1963. The surprising Geneology report indicated that incest was the majority of maternities (mostly 1st removed cousin families, followed by 2nd removed, intrafamily was less than 2.2%). Heck, these are closer than that bunch in Texas...let's send the National Guard to protect all those children!!!

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Tue May 06, 2008 12:25 pm

So am I OTH.

If you can't distinguish between Appalachian living of 50 years ago versus a walled off compound of the present day then I can't help you.

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:27 pm

We had a long discussion on this about 4 weeks ago. Also it was on the s&w site. It,s very involved and a short answer cant touch the subject.
If there is a complaint of child abuse whether unsubstanchuated or not the law enforement is obligated to check it out.
While checking out the complaint if other evidence of abuse is noted, it has to also be checked even if the original complaint is bogus.
Now, lets look at the probable way this went down. The flds group bought land at eldorado under false pretendces. They said it was for a hunting ranch. When it was found to be flds you can be sure authoritys boned up on all info available on the sect. There is much info on this group. Facts and tons of bad rumors. Amoung the rumor part is that they have been arming themselves for "the day" etc. I read and knew of them before eldorado compound was built. Along with that the nation was hearing the jeffs case.
So you are sheriff or DA in the area. CPS gets the complaint and comes to you and demands you take their investigators in the compound, and you must! You of course knew this day was comeing. You already know the rumors, have been by the compound, seen the posted signs and patrols of armed guards, young men patroling on quads etc.
Do you assign one deputy to escourt one woman investigater to go in to the compound of about 800 ? Or do you show up with force?
Okay we opt for force. Your army gets in, see,s what could be evidence of abuse. You ask kids whos yo mamma? They either dont know or point at three different women. So what do you do? No young girl throws herself down and hangs on your legs and **** oh thank you for comeing! Do you say well I dont see anybody that wants us here, nor do I see any dead bodys. Guess we are outta here, have a good day folks! Nope you have to stay the course, do the DNA thing and take the kids out of harms way. What do you think would happen if you just left, and a few hours later it turned out to be jonestown?

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:03 pm

Kind of a no-win situation isn't it?

The same folks who decry the government actions would be likewise critical of the government if they had this same information and failed to act on it.

Where is the line to be crossed? Until what point must the government wait to act? Police and CPS officials have to make judgment calls all the time on limited information. Sometimes those calls are very difficult to make, but I would err on the side of safety for children before I would err the other way.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue May 06, 2008 3:19 pm

ScottT wrote:Kind of a no-win situation isn't it?

The same folks who decry the government actions would be likewise critical of the government if they had this same information and failed to act on it.

Where is the line to be crossed? Until what point must the government wait to act? Police and CPS officials have to make judgment calls all the time on limited information. Sometimes those calls are very difficult to make, but I would err on the side of safety for children before I would err the other way.

All I ask for is a little consistency.

I see waaay too many Baby Mommas & Baby Daddies coming to the GRADE SCHOOLS out of our local (CPS dominated) Projects, but don't see CPS sending in the troops there. But I DO see them sending out the troops to gather in more children who aren't already in their tender embrace...

donw · Post by **donw** » Tue May 06, 2008 4:38 pm

call me cynical but all i see is a "lose-lose" on almost any issue like this.

it almost always results in hurt, pain, and disillusionment for all concerned.

as a whole, the average citizen has no choice but to let the system "run its course" as most of us mere mortals cannot afford the legal backing to combat the government and their batteries of attornies and the onslaught they bring.

seldom will a governmental agency attempt to right a wrong it's generated, or apoligize, for that matter. they just move on to the next case, do all the damage they can, right or wrong, and go about their merry way.

JohnnyReb · Post by **JohnnyReb** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:36 pm

El Mac wrote:
JohnnyReb wrote:So what is your point?
Well, if I have to explain, you wouldn't understand. Clearly.

Please read the references. 2 year old boys were taken to prevent them from becoming POTENTIAL sexual predators.

If you truly sanction that type of law enforcement, then please follow your own logic and ship your guns to me......you might be tempted to commit a crime or maybe hurt yourself. I will be glad to remove the POTENTIAL of those events for you.

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Tue May 06, 2008 5:44 pm

JohnnyReb,

Bout the time I build a compound to fence out the world so I can safely, secretly and securely molest children - I'll be sure to send you my weapons. But...don't hold your breath on either account.

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Tue May 06, 2008 6:25 pm

If we had consistancy I belive maybe 40% of the united states would be in jail! Utah and ariz didnt do its job generations ago and its gotten so far out of hand that there isnt enough beds in jails to let them do their job!
I belive if you have laws enforce them, or get rid of the law! Texas is trying. Its the same principal as illegal immigration. Turn your back on it and in a few years there is no solution! Then now comes a hitler and the only solution is now too drastic.
Focus on jonestown. It really, really could happen here! Maybe it will. At least in jonestown several people asked to leave with congressman ryan. None of the poligamists have that much sense. If jeffs was to get out and tell them to drink the cool ade, they probley would! There have been cases I have read here where jeffs, while loose arbitarly transferred wives and kids to another man in better standing, called in the husband, told him to get out and repent from afar! The amazeing thing is the guy would do it, his wives and kids would go to the newly assigned husband. They are just that dedicated to the profit!
Someone said that we dont lock up the entire inner city and take their kids like eldorado. That is right. However, this is a compound behind gates. Not a single apartment. The people seem to consider themselves all one family. They dont in the inner city.
Maybe hillery should be a poligamist. After all, she wrote the book, "it takes a village"!

POLITICS - Charges dropped, children still kidnapped by gov

POLITICS - Charges dropped, children still kidnapped by gov

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