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COSteve
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ollogger
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by ollogger »

Thank you Steve!


I like Lil Gun in my 45 & 357 carbines, but don't use it in my hand guns for plinking, to much blast & recoil for me any more



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COSteve
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earlmck
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by earlmck »

Good day at the range indeed Steve. And we're starting to have some nice weather for range testing around these parts too, though at about 3000' less elevation.

I bought a jug of Lil' gun several years ago and have used several pounds of it up, all in rifles of one sort or another. I get good results as it seems to be able to burn well in reduced loads better than you'd expect a ball powder to do and give more velocity than you'd expect from any given load. But after blowing a primer plumb out of my K-hornet with a Hodgdon suggested "starting load" I don't trust Hodgdon's pressure data for Lil' gun at all, at least with my lot of Lil' gun which seems to be a faster-burner than Hodgdon or QuickLoad would predict for my loads.

And QuickLoad doesn't seem to back up Hodgdon's miraculous-seeming pressure data either. I do like the Lil' gun, but I use it gingerly and keep an eye on what QuickLoad says about it. For example, my QL thinks your 18 grains with 158 gr bullet (I don't have the Zero bullet in my database so used Hornady's XTP FP) would be super compressed with a 1.59" COAL and give 47K psi with 1970 fps in 20" bbl. So obviously you got rather less pressure than this QL prediction but my experience has been not to trust Hodgdon's 28K claim either.
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crs
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by crs »

Good report and thanks.

Reminds me of way back when; I hand loaded my 20 inch Douglas barrelled 1892 .357 with Elmer loads and PO Ackley loads.

I liked the PO load for 160 grain JSP with 26 grains of 2400 = 2135 fps. ; it packed a wallop.

My fave though was a load of my own pushing a 140 grain JSP bullet 2200 +fps. A flat shooter with great accuracy and tore big holes through deer. One doe shot by my wife had a 6 inch exit hole in the base of the neck! No need for a second shot.

Keep up the good work and good reporting; it benefits all shooters.
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GunnyMack
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by GunnyMack »

Originally I bought lilgun for my hornet,bee and 410. Then I got my 41 mag Henry. It is now my go to powder for the 41. Dont remember the exact load but I was getting great velocity and 1 hole groups at 50 with Hornady, Speer and Nosler - all 210s.
Hmm, I gotta see if I can find data for my 25-20...
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765x53
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by 765x53 »

earlmck wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:37 am
Good day at the range indeed Steve. And we're starting to have some nice weather for range testing around these parts too, though at about 3000' less elevation.

I bought a jug of Lil' gun several years ago and have used several pounds of it up, all in rifles of one sort or another. I get good results as it seems to be able to burn well in reduced loads better than you'd expect a ball powder to do and give more velocity than you'd expect from any given load. But after blowing a primer plumb out of my K-hornet with a Hodgdon suggested "starting load" I don't trust Hodgdon's pressure data for Lil' gun at all, at least with my lot of Lil' gun which seems to be a faster-burner than Hodgdon or QuickLoad would predict for my loads.

And QuickLoad doesn't seem to back up Hodgdon's miraculous-seeming pressure data either. I do like the Lil' gun, but I use it gingerly and keep an eye on what QuickLoad says about it. For example, my QL thinks your 18 grains with 158 gr bullet (I don't have the Zero bullet in my database so used Hornady's XTP FP) would be super compressed with a 1.59" COAL and give 47K psi with 1970 fps in 20" bbl. So obviously you got rather less pressure than this QL prediction but my experience has been not to trust Hodgdon's 28K claim either.
Several years ago an early lot of Lil 'gun was recalled. You might check your lot # with Hodgdon.
COSteve
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GunnyMack
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by GunnyMack »

I forgot!
When I tried lilgun in my 28 ga I found it to be quite dirty. Probably need a bit more wad pressure.
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by piller »

I have used L'iL Gun in my .480 with good results. The accuracy is better than with H110/Win 296. I do notice the barrel heats up faster with L'iL Gun. The primers do not flatten as much as they do with H110. I also use IMR 4227 for the .480 to get lower velocity and less kick in the pistol and higher velocity in the rifle. It burns a little slower, and is a little dirtier in the pistol. A good crimp makes a big difference in group size for me with IMR4227.
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earlmck
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by earlmck »

765x53 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:28 pm
Several years ago an early lot of Lil 'gun was recalled. You might check your lot # with Hodgdon.
I hadn't heard that -- thanks for the info: I'll bet I've got a half-used jug of that recall stuff. So ignore anything I have said about Lil' gun.

And 18 grains of my stuff in a Starline case would definitely be a compressed load. Looks like it would fit, but it would be somewhat compressed.
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mickbr
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by mickbr »

Nice load data. So anyone know what the safe maximum pressures are for the rossi 1892?
ethang
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by ethang »

Steve, I am using the exact same Lil'gun loads in my 20 Rossi and my velocity results mirror yours. 17.7-18 grains and it shoots great. I have only tried a couple loads with 296 but did notice a difference in the case swell at the base with these compared to the Lil'gun loads. Don't know if it's worth continuing with the 296 since Lil'gun shoots so well.
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earlmck
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by earlmck »

mickbr wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:20 am
Nice load data. So anyone know what the safe maximum pressures are for the rossi 1892?
Rossi offers the rifle chambered for 454 Casull which is a 65k psi cartridge. So the rifle is a good platform for load testing.
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is he who heals the most gullies.
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COSteve
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crs
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by crs »

COSteve,
Have you personally measured the chamber pressure of your LilGun loads?
If so, do you have pressure curve data for those loads?

If not, can you refer me to an article or report where this has been done?
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COSteve
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Great information Steve. Thank you.

I got married earlier this year and moved. I cannot find that dang chronograph anywhere!
rossim92
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by rossim92 »

Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:38 pm
Great information Steve. Thank you.

I got married earlier this year and moved. I cannot find that dang chronograph anywhere!
You look in the bedroom? load testing in there? :oops:
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

[/quote]

You look in the bedroom? load testing in there? :oops:
[/quote]

Lol. Yeah, we aren’t teenagers.
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KWK
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Re: Finally Got Around to Chronoing My New Loads

Post by KWK »

COSteve wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:27 am
He acknowledged that some pressure and velocity predictions for straight walled cartridges are totally unreasonable. He stated that Quickload is best used with bottleneck cartridges in the 60,000psi range and that it gets less effective as the pressure drops.
The early version of QL had a nice write up of the calculations, done by McPherson. There's an equation used which is optimized for higher pressures. Things start to fall apart below 30,000 with most of the powders in the data base. It's a complete cr*p shoot with some powders, such as Trail Boss. If you're relating pressure to fps, it holds up better, but predicting charge weight is hopeless with some powders. Not all straight wall cases work out so badly in QL. There's a fudge factor to account for the initial acceleration of the front of the charge, and this varies with the case but doesn't always fix the problem.
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