BAGTIC wrote:brucew44guns wrote:I went to that website to see what it was. Typical of many I've seen all my life, where the insistance that Saved Christians are going up to a Heavenly Reward after they die is taught. But Jesus did say that "No Man has ever ascended up to Heaven, except the Son of Man who came down from heaven" . Acts chapter 2 bears out, that David, a man after Gods own heart, "has not ascended into the heavens",. You'd think David made it if anyone could. I wish someday, that someone could clearly, without any gaps, and directly from the scriptures, show me where heaven is the reward of the saved. Isn't Jesus the young nobleman who went into a far country, (heaven), to recieve a kingdom, and to return? I always read where the Savior would return to this earth, pretty plain stuff about that, but I guess he will be all alone here, everyone will be in heaven.
"ascended", past tense (not yet... at that time) , not shall never 'ascend'.
If Heaven were indeed the reward of saved Christians, like the entire world of churchianity teaches, it would not be surprising to see the entire New testament at least, just filled with references of "when we all get to heaven", "I can't wait to die, so I can go to heaven", "I'll see you in heaven soon", "I hope I don't screw up so I can be in heaven" " I wonder what old so-and-so is doing in heaven today" , would we not see a prevailing theme of everyone going to heaven? It's the chief theme of the churches---"going to heaven", but no direct statement is available about going there in the scriptures. Jesus would have taught many pages all about the joys, the reward of going to heaven. It's simply not there, because heaven is not the reward of the saved, according to the scriptures. Everyone is supposed to be going to heaven according to churches and mens teachings, but not according to the scriptures. A few misunderstood and vague scriptures have fostered this whole concept. The scriptures teach Christ returning to this earth to establish a Kingdom, at the end of this age, and I understand that we will meet him in the air at his return, but that is after we are resurrected and rise to meet him. But it says his feet are going to set down on the Mount of olives at His return, a little different place than heaven. The Patriarch David is one man whom God himself declared was a "Man after his own heart", (Gods Heart). If anyone can go to heaven, it is David, a righteous man indeed. Yet, in Acts Chapter 2:Vs 34, it says "For David is not ascended into heaven". Vs 29 says that "David is both dead and buried" and they knew where his grave was. This was well after Christs assencion. No, David was just as it says in Eccl. 9:5--"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything". They are dead, unconscious, waiting in their graves for Christs return, and a resurrection from the dead. No need of a resurrection if you are allready alive in heaven, yet the bible speaks of graves by the millions opening up and dead people coming back to life, including the saints who knew Christ and had His Holy Spirit before they died. A wrong premise can get anyone way off the path of truth, but heaven as a reward immediately after death is a misnomer in the extreme. Millions of people know, and have known this truth over the ages, it just isn't taught in churches much. The Minister would get fired most likely, it's not what people want to hear.
To hell with them fellas, buzzards gotta eat same as the worms.
Outlaw Josey Wales
Member GOA
NRA Benefactor-Life
. . . shoot my 
. . . 
