![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
I don't ever remember seeing this one before.
Any idea as to a year?
![Image](http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l308/mountaincreekphotos/Guns%20And%20Hunting/3ca180G.jpg)
yep, wasn't very cheap for that many years ago, compared to a good price today.BlaineG wrote:![]()
$189
A major part of the current issues with lethality is the ammunition. The 55gr M193 would destabilize and fragment quickly, and at greater ranges than the current 62gr M855 with steel core, creating much more devastating wounds. Interestingly the M193 from a 20" barrel will penetrate AR500 level III body armor at 25 yards. Steel core M855/green tip will not. The MK262 77gr OTM works well on soft targets, but is usually only issued to higher tier operators. Most of the other "issues" with the AR platform are internet myths. Of course as with anything, poorly assembled guns from non spec parts won't work properly either.jeepnik wrote:As a varmint gun the original AR15, civilian AR15 (thanks for the info Sore Shoulder) and the M16 were likely acceptable. As a combat weapon they were deplorable. My kids say the current versions are okay, but both still prefer, as do I, the M14. Though they were both SAW gunners for a bit and liked those a lot. Then again they always were a noisy pair.
The use of old stockpiles of dirty powder instead of the correct clean burning powder was a crime that should have gotten someone shot for treason. It is the reason the forward assist was incorporated, when all that was really needed was proper ammunition, but the forward assist made a good cover up. I use an M4 in my job and I refuse to use the forward assist. Hobie put it very well one time, if it won't chamber I'm not goi g to pound it in and create an extraction issue.BigSky56 wrote:55 gr fmc used in a 14 twist barrel was devastating on charlie it cavitated & tumbled made horrible wounds the twist was also the cause of the bullet not able to penetrate foliage. I liked the round but despised the delivery system it was junk for a auto fire battle rifle it got good men killed. danny
Case head separation isn't unique to an AR. It's also usually a gas timing issue, whether it's a piston or DI. Ive seen millions of rounds go down range from M16's and M4's and haven't seen it happen so it's not very common. It usually happens when extraction is attempted early while the case is still expanded and gripping the chamber. It's the reason carbine gas length gets a bad rap and the mid length gas is so popular. Its why 7.62x39 AR's extractors break. It's also why rifle gas length is so reliable and will work with such a broad range of ammo. The gas port diameter is a big part of that equation. Powder burn rate, gas pressure, dwell time. One bad batch of ammo or a bad round can affect all of that. It's the nature of any semi-auto. It's why QC for issue ammo is so high. Every batch of bullets, cases, primers and brass is retested and load changes made. In spite of that, I'm constantly amazed at how well an AR that is properly assembled will digest almost any ammo.jeepnik wrote:The powder was part of it, likely the major part of it. But, there were other issues that compounded it. Poor training resulting in misinformed end users. Lack of adequate cleaning supplies, goes back to the misinformation.
My own failure was when the case head ripped off the body and then the rifle tried to chamber another round. If the thing had been ne with a forward assist it would have made no difference and likely would have made things worse.
I hear tell they now have broken shell extractors. Seems to me such an item wouldn't have been invented if many others hadn't had a similar malfunction. Oh, and it was clean, well relatively as I had fired a few rounds before the failure, and properly lubed.
Remember my experience was decades ago with the original M16, and all of it issues. I found the M14 much more reliable. It was quite a bit heavier, but I didn't have to hump it over hill and dale.sore shoulder wrote:I don't know what to think about some of these reports and problems. I've personally had an M4 so hot it was cooking off. That was after doing mag dumps on burst and somewhere over 12 mags. It was still running. I've seen weapons running after dumping 100's of blanks. There is literally nothing dirtier you can run through an AR. ALL of the gas goes into the bolt carrier since the barrel is plugged with a blank firing adapter.
I've seen M2's jam too. It happens. Thats why you drill over and over and over on those systems how to clear and reload.BigSky56 wrote:In all fairness to others I reread the after action report M240s jammed M249s jammed auto grenade jammed and several M4s jammed all to high rate of auto fire, only the ma duce kept working. danny