advice on 45-70 reloads

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:17 am

I am loading some ammo for my new to me Winchester 1886 extra light weight. I also want to load this round for my Ruger #3. Any suggestions on primers or powders to use? I will not be using any cast bullets (unless I buy them) I already own the following bullets: Barnes X bullets 300 grain for the Ruger, Speer 300 gr flat nose and Hornaday 350gr flat nose for the Winchester. Should I try something else? Any tips on crimping the bullet? I have Lee dies with the crimp die. Thanks!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:37 am

If you're wanting to loads both guns to their full potential, you're looking @ two different performance levels. If you wanna use the same load in both guns you're limited to loads suitable for the 1886. I've gotten good loads, accuracy wise from my 1886 rifle using 300 & 350 grain jacketed with moderate loads for the '86 with IMR-3031 and Accurate 5744. Check their websites for good loads.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:55 am

Reloading the 45-70? Well, I have been doing that since 1960 and here is what I have learned.

1) Medium burning powders like 3031 are just the ticket for the 45-70

2) You can load the round to the point, that pulling the trigger becomes an exercise in discipline, character and the ability to withstand pain. The Ruger #3 can be loaded to the point the recoil will make a strong man wence, bruse your shoulder and cheek and risk detaching a retina.

3) Loading the 45-70 hot is an exercise in futility as it will never bee a long range rifle and loads in the 1.2 to 1.5 K fps will kill as quickly as those shoved much faster.

4) A good 400 to 450 grain FN bullet trucking along at 1.3 K fps will put a deer down...right now!

I wasn't kidding about detaching a retina. I know a fellow who did that with rifle recoil. Caution about recoil fall on deaf ears when folks are still full of testarone and want to be manly. But there is a price to pay for decades of shooting big boomer rifles and handguns. After 50 years of doing so, my shooting shoulder, strong side elbow, strong side wrist and hand have bad arthritis in them. My strong side elbow also had buggered tendons. Let's don't even talk about hearing loss.

The 45-70 is a fine round and I enjoy shooting a No. 3 and a Marlin levergun gun..but I don't push the redline with this round as it serves no good purpose.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:38 pm

JMO, but both 3031 or 4198 provides good loads for those bullet weights.

I won't shoot slugs any heavier than 350gr, anymore, in my .45-70's - and especially in a carbine as light as a #3.
Shooting anything heavier comes under the heading of self-abuse, IMHO.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:47 pm

Hornady 350 jfp and 58 Grains of Varget. Stout but not unpleasant load.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:50 pm

I wonder what the original black-powder 45-70 military load chronographed at? Iâ€™ve heard of long range target shooters shooting 400g (?) bullets at 1100 fps at 1,000-yardsâ€¦

Don't know if'n it's true just sayin it's what I heard.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:52 pm

I don't think the 350 grain JFP Hornady will chamber if you crimp the bullet where it is supposed to be crimped. The olgive of the bullet is too round and hits the rifling before the cartridge is fully chambered. They would not chamber in my Win/Miroku extra light.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:51 pm

KirkD wrote:I don't think the 350 grain JFP Hornady will chamber if you crimp the bullet where it is supposed to be crimped. The olgive of the bullet is too round and hits the rifling before the cartridge is fully chambered. They would not chamber in my Win/Miroku extra light.

The 400gr Speer won't, but the Hornadys will, leastways they will in mine, (1985 vintage). I didn't buy the rifle new, and don't know if the original buyer had it throated or not.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:08 pm

Quick Karl wrote:I wonder what the original black-powder 45-70 military load chronographed at? Iâ€™ve heard of long range target shooters shooting 400g (?) bullets at 1100 fps at 1,000-yardsâ€¦

Don't know if'n it's true just sayin it's what I heard.

I dunno, BUT....

From just POI and Recoil, a 300gr bullet pushed by 55gr Varget has the same POI & felt recoil as 70gr 3F BP...

According to Hodgon 55.0gr Varget pushes a 300gr cast to 1880fps at 20,600 CUP.

I didn't chrony mine, but like I said...

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:18 pm

My readings have told me the BP loads for the 400gr bullets were about 1300fps, which is what the factory loads usually chrono at today.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:30 pm

Let me look again at which Dipper I used... All i know is that what I loaded with Varget shot the same as a measured 70gr 3F BP...

But it had to be in this range, because I didn't try to tweak the data...

45.0gr 1599fps 17,800 CUP | 55.0gr 1880fps 20,600 CUP

Seeing as I randomly loaded the BP load into the tube along with Varget loads, and the only difference noticible by me was the smoke... well...

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:34 pm

My favorite powders for the .45-70 are IMR-3031 and Reloader 7. I use Federal 210 primers and Starline brass exclusively.

Quick Karl · Post by **Quick Karl** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:35 pm

Thank you, gentlemen,

I was just curious about the original load, which has killed buffalo, elk, and bears I am told, and though I confess that I enjoy a hot good snot-busting 45-70 load every so often, for the shear joy of it, they just ain't necessary for hunting any game in the lower 48.

If youâ€™re packing a Guide Gun in Alaska, and youâ€™re backing up a hunter for Grizz that may not be an expert, you might like to stoke it with some Cor-Bon solids, or Buffalo Bore, or Garrett Hammerheads, all of which I have shot, and they do get your attention â€“ but it is my belief that them old timers killed everything that walks in the lower 48 with that trusty old original 45-70 â€“ 405g bullet at about 1300 fps, I believe.

I love my 1895CB. Has a Williams Target Foolproof on it and a Limbsaver recoil pad for those snot-busting days! Itâ€™s a beautiful rifle.

Whit Spurzon · Post by **Whit Spurzon** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:20 am

A powder worth trying if you aren't looking for max velocity is SR4759. 25 gr under a 405gr cast bullet gets me right around 1454 fps in the 1895CB and a little less in my Guide Gun. It's a load that is accurate in both and burns a lot cleaner than AA5744. No powder zombies at all.

28gr gets me just under 1600 fps with a SD of 6.55. Accurate but I do get some leading with plain base bullets.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:09 am

My BP loads with 70gr of FFg, .030 Veg wad, 405 grain FN run about 1250 fps out of a 32 5/8" barrel and 1135fps out of a 22" barrel. Out of my '86 w/26" barrel it actually pushes 'em @ 1310 fps (probably less gas loss). I can duplicate almost identical velocities with 28 to 29 grains of H4198 behind the same bullet (405gr), but when I try using the 500 grain RN bullet...it all changes. 70 gr FFg drops to 1175 in the 32 5/8", but out of the '86 it nose dives to 1050 fps! Even worse with the smokeless, has more kick, but less velocity.