Desktop Photo: My 'new' vintage Winchester Model 1892 38 WCF

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:53 pm

Well men, it's a Sunday afternoon and I'm taking it easy. Primed 112 45 ACP brass and then decided to head outside and take a photo of my 'new' Winchester Model 1892 38 WCF (38-40), made in 1913. I sold my original Winchester 1873 44-40, made in 1888, to fund the purchase of this 38 WCF. Now I know that some of you will think that was a fool thing to do and that I need to be taken out behind the barn and have some sense knocked into me, but I'm a shooter first and a collector second. When I saw the shiny bore of this 38 WCF with its nice sharp rifling ..... well, I figured if I sold the '73, I'd have enough to get this one. I haven't shot it yet. I'm still waiting for the mould and reloading dies. With the purchase of this old classic, I decided to finally break down and start casting my own, instead of relying on the Local Caster. I know this will drive tacks. It's in all original condition, with nice original wood and metal and a bore that's so nice, it just makes a fellow all shaky to think about it.

If anyone would like a hi-res copy for their computer desk top, send me your email address, and I'll get it out to you in a day or so. Here's the fine old rifle:

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:00 pm

Wow, I love the wood on that. Very nice.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:19 pm

Yeah, my favorite type of rifle. It's gonna be pure pleasure to shoot. Good eye.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:19 pm

Well Kirk, it looks you done real good again, is it a local rifle? What is the rear sight like, did you see the photo of my 92 rear sight ? you can actually see it.

woods-walker · Post by **woods-walker** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:27 pm

That's a very nice walking around rifle !

I think I'm going to reread what Snooky Williamson has to say about the caliber in Legacy of Leverguns.

Thanks for sharing.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:38 pm

Jerry, I bought it off a local fellow in town. The rear sight is a flat top like yours. I've been practicing sighting down it and it sights real nice. I can hardly wait to shoot it, but that will take a while, since the dies are backordered. I'm thinking of trying out the old 38 HV load from the early 1900's. 180 grains at 1,500 fps is potent Whitetail Deer medicine.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:41 pm

VERY NICE Kirk. Congrats on that one!

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:43 pm

Old Savage wrote:VERY NICE Kirk. Congrats on that one!

+1

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:24 pm

Kirk,

TWO thumbs up!

Almost a hundred years old and beautiful.

Now guys take a look at the fit of the wood to metal. Look at the fit of every thing. This is how it was originally done.

I defy anyone to tell me the newly manufactured guns are better. Go ahead and try and convince me that the Miroku and Rossi made copies are better than the original Winchesters.

Excuse me while I laugh at you.

Joe

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:34 pm

Joe, you got it right about the wood to metal fit. Nothing beats the wood to metal fit in these old Winchesters. It is absolutely air tight and the wood is very slightly proud of the metal. Typically, the fit is perfect and cannot be improved upon. I wouldn't be surprised if the final fit was hand done back then, it is so good. In fact, one of the warning signs that an old Winchester has been messed with is a less than perfect fit. All old Winchesters that are in all original condition should have a perfect wood to metal fit.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:37 pm

K irk, I know those old HV loads were hot for the time I used to shoot them regular in my 32wcf when I could get them. Do you have any idea what the velocity on the 80 HV for the 32wcf was?They shot great in a Colt 32wcf I had for a while too.

3855 · Post by **3855** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:41 pm

Nice rifle Kirk

I agree with Joe, the craftmanship of the early Winchester exceeds what is available today. That is why Winchesters are so collectable.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:52 pm

That's a beauty Kirk!!

Can't have to many '92s.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:57 pm

Beautiful rifle and I think you made a wonderful trade. Thanks for the pictures.

95fan · Post by **95fan** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:26 pm

very nice

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:31 pm

What a beaute Kirk! Seems the only ones I find around here are either overpriced or shot out. I'm jealous!!!!

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:33 pm

Nice trade

!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:36 pm

JerryB wrote:K irk, I know those old HV loads were hot for the time I used to shoot them regular in my 32wcf when I could get them. Do you have any idea what the velocity on the 80 HV for the 32wcf was?They shot great in a Colt 32wcf I had for a while too.

Jerry, I'm getting this info from a chart published in Snooky Williamson's The Winchester Lever Legacy (an excellent book for those of you who shoot old Winchester and Marlin guns). Here is the info for the following original factory loads:

32 WCF 115 grain bullet @ 1,225 fps (standard load, safe for the '73's)
32 'Super Speed' .. 80 grain bullet @ 2,000 fps
32 Model 92 W.H.V. ... 115 grain bullet @ 1,635 fps

38 WCF ... 180 grain bullet @ 1,325 fps (standard load, safe for the '73's)
38 Model 92 W.H.V. ... 180 gain bullet @ 1,770 fps

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:48 pm

Nice picture Kirk.
If you ever decide to get rid of any other Winchester in 44-40 let me know please

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:54 pm

That is a great example of the classic Winchesters.

Congrats on the acquisition. And doubly so for you going out and shooting it like it was meant to be.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:02 pm

Borregos wrote:Nice picture Kirk.
If you ever decide to get rid of any other Winchester in 44-40 let me know please

I'm down to just one 44-40 now, an original Winchester 1892 with octagon barrel and a very nice bore. I sold the other one on CGN, but it went within 24 hours, with a line up of people all hoping to buy the old '73. I will be putting an original 1892 32-20 up for sale (made in 1903) this week sometime, in order to free up some funds to purchase an even nicer 32-20.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:24 pm

What a beauty.....
And wait til you shoot it!
I love mine!

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:35 pm

I'll be checking my mail for the new desktop!

It is a nice looking rifle.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:49 pm

Kirk,
Nice "clean" original '92. A used but not abused specimen. Thats why the bore is so nice, the previous owner cherished it. A rifle in that condition always has good "vibes". You will have plently of good luck in hunting and shooting that old '92.
Most '92's in 38-40 I have owned and loaded for had nice tight groove diameters, usually right at .401. 9 or 10 grains of Unique will make a nice deer load with the 180 bullet. I have also had excellent accuracy with a 200 grain bullet designed for the 10mm. A Lee factory crimp die is a useful die to have around for this cartridge.
Anymore, I don't waste the extra money on 38-40 brass. I always find good buys on 44-40 brass, so I just run 'em into a 38-40 fl sizer, but thats your call. Good luck-------------------Sixgun p.s--don't forget to pop off the buttplate--sometimes old timers hid their goodies in there.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:12 pm

Kirk -

Another stunning picture and a wonderful rifle. Great way for me to end my vacation - tomorrow I go back to work!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:18 pm

Sixgun, I never thought to pop off the buttplate, but I will. I've done it with other old Winchesters, but not found anything yet. I keep hoping for a roll of old gold coins, or a small bag of one and two carat diamonds. If one is going to dream, dream big!

I already bought 100 Starline brass from Track of the Wolf, so I'm good to go. I just need the reloading dies and the bullet mould, and some time to start casting. The RCBS Lube-a-matic is on backorder as well. I don't know how long backordered stuff takes (from Buffalo Arms and Track of the Wolf) but I hope we're not talking about months.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:25 pm

Thanks Kirk, I am going to load some more of the 85 grain XTP's and I did get some 100 grain XTP bullets also. I don't reckon I'll hit 2000 fps but I eill get them up a little more than 1225 fps.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:38 pm

I'm glad for you Kirk, looks like you came on to real beauty there. A man makes sacrifices for a rare gun like that.

GEOFF · Post by **GEOFF** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:58 pm

KirkD,

Just got to add my congrats! Looks almost identical condition to my 1908 vintage 1892 Win. in .25-20. I had never had much experience with lever actions before, I brought my 1892 home and WAS AMAZED at how that rifle lent itself to HITTING stuff. It was bang HIT, bang HIT, over and over and started a love affair with that round barreled rifle.

I shoot mine all the time in pistol cartridge lever silhouette.

I agree with what was said above, the fit of the wood to metal could not be more perfect. I would have to say I'm a Marlin guy first but those early Winchesters are top notch. Don't have enough of both to say which company typically had the best quality, my Marlin 1881 and the Winchester 1892 I mentioned have the best wood fit out of my 10 or so lever actions, in fact I'd have to give the edge to the Winchester but BARELY!!

I'm also doing very similar stuff learning casting also for a .38-40 Marlin Baby Carbine. Never had casted much before and never had loaded for the .38WCF. Lot to learn!

All the best!

Geoff

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:13 am

Nice rifle. I love the rifles and short rifles versus the carbines. Yours is an exceptional example ... the wood has done very well over the last 100 years it appears.

TNBigBore · Post by **TNBigBore** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:37 am

Kirk, that is a nice rifle. Thanks for sharing. It is the exact same configuration as my 1892 38WCF except for the rear sight. I have come to really like the look of the round barrel vs the octagon. Mine was made in 1892 is a really good shooter. I finally got around to reloading for it this past week. It really likes the 180 grain laser cast bullets over 9 grains of Unique. Let us know how yours shoots.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:15 am

Beautiful rifle and pics Kirk!

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:36 am

Well done KD, glad to see the snow has gone.
Nath.