Marlin 1895, .45-70, blown up

[Ray Newman]

A serious reminder to be very, very alert when reloading.

See "Gun Blew Up" at http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthr ... un-blew-up

Especially post #62 from Dragonrider....

Addendum: Just looked in my Lyman #49 and cast Bullet #4 reloading manuals, and 2400 is not listed for any bullet weight in any of the three loading levels -- Trapdoor, Marlin/Winchester 1886, or Ruger No.1

[jeepnik]

As mentioned in the replies. likely a double charge. Since I don't shoot scads of 45-70 at a time, I weight every charge. Makes for more consistent accuracy as well.

[Les Staley]

Not the first 1895/336 in 45/70 to blow up, prolly not the last. That action was designed for 30/30 class cartridges and if you have one, look how little metal surrounds the chamber of a 45/70 . Definatly not a gun to hot rod! Not much margine for error.

Let me guess, (I didn't look at the link). The receiver peeled back and it spit out the barrel.

I had one that was my favorite black bear gun, scopeable, bears move at last light..killed six or seven bruins with it, but not willing to risk any stupid reloading mistake as I get older and more forgetful sold it when it got valuable as a JM proofed gun. Doubled my initial investment..

[Griff]

Interestingly, the OP posted somewhat later (post #93), that the other charges left undamaged in the gun were actually 62 grains, not the 52 he'd intended on loading. And that the blow-up occurred on the 11th shot. It may not have been a double charge, just the result of continued hammering with over-charges.

[earlmck]

Interestingly, the OP posted somewhat later (post #93), that the other charges left undamaged in the gun were actually 62 grains, not the 52 he'd intended on loading. And that the blow-up occurred on the 11th shot. It may not have been a double charge, just the result of continued hammering with over-charges.

You read that a little to hasty, Griff. He was loading 26 grains all along. What he meant was that when he had said previously that 52 grains probably wouldn't allow a bullet to be seated, he had been mistaken and measured out 62 grains for the test. At 52 grains you can seat the bullet for disastrous results, as Dragonrider showed in his post.

This was almost undoubtedly a double charge and not "fatigue".

[Ray Newman]

Griff: believe he was referring to his earlier post-blow up experiment trying to load 52 grains into a .45-70 case, which he later claimed that he incorrectly set the scale weight:

See post #19, dated 4/10/15 at 11:13 AM –
“I just checked. 52gr does fit, but I dont know if I could seat a bullet or not, I didnt try. Its a VERY full case.”

Then later in post #93, which you referred, he wrote of his error on 4/11/15 at 9:50 AM –
“HOLY MOLY, lots a posts I gotta go back and read. Aint been here since the first page.

“I was on pain killers before when I checked the 52gr. I looked at the scale last night and it was on 62gr. I reajusted and checked and with 52gr I actually would be able to seat a bullet….”

[Old Ironsights]

...Addendum: Just looked in my Lyman #49 and cast Bullet #4 reloading manuals, and 2400 is not listed for any bullet weight in any of the three loading levels -- Trapdoor, Marlin/Winchester 1886, or Ruger No.1

Maybe Lyman #49 doesn't, but Lyman #47 (and all previous versions) DID.

Trapdoor:

300gr JSP Max 30.0 1715fps
405gr JSP Max 27.0 1394fps

1886/1895

300gr JSP Max 34.0 1870fps
405gr JSP Max 32.0 1582fps
457191 293gr Max 30.5+fill 1842fps 26,900 CUP
457122HP 322gr Max 28.0 1640fps 25,000 CUP
457643 400gr Max 24.6+fill 1497fps 26,300 CUP
457193 420gr Max 25.7+fill 1490fps 27,500 CUP

I won't even get into the Ruger #1 loads...

[AJMD429]

I prefer bulky loads that nearly fill the case whenever possible.

I also think the 336 is better suited to smaller diameter cases; even the 444 Marlin has a bunch more metal around the cartridge. However that looks to me like a double charge is likely the cause and it would have blown up most any gun. If someone has a Ruger 45-70 they don't want it would be interesting to use a double charge in it and see if it could take it...

[Old Ironsights]

I never had any problems with 2400 in any of my 45-70s.

Admittedly, it can SOMETIMES be position sensitive, but that's not really a issue if you know how to handle your rifle.

That said, I shot ONLY the 457122 out of my guns (best.. bullet.. ever..) and never played with Fill, but still...

There is NOTHING wrong with 2400 in the .45-70 that a lawyer can't screw up...

[Ray Newman]

"Maybe Lyman #49 doesn't, but Lyman #47 (and all previous versions) DID."

--Old ironsights

True, but the operative/key word is "did". Same with Unique, I don't think that is listed anymore either. Wonder what the reason(s) was -- too many failures in old (or new) rifles, "operator [reloader] errors" as in double charges, manufacturers' powder formula changes, better ways to measure pressure, or what??

[Old Ironsights]

"Maybe Lyman #49 doesn't, but Lyman #47 (and all previous versions) DID."

--Old ironsights

True, but the operative/key word is "did". Same with Unique, I don't think that is listed anymore either. Wonder what the reason(s) was -- too many failures in old (or new) rifles, "operator [reloader] errors" as in double charges, manufacturers' powder formula changes, better ways to measure pressure, or what??

SO... don't load to Max. Not that hard.

And as far as why... "operator error/stupidity" = Lawyers telling Publishers to stop printing totally reasonable charge tables.

And I don't think 2400 has changed enough in the 2 or 3 millennia it's been available to make that much difference.

Stay below Max. Pretty simple rule.

[Griff]

Interestingly, the OP posted somewhat later (post #93), that the other charges left undamaged in the gun were actually 62 grains, not the 52 he'd intended on loading. And that the blow-up occurred on the 11th shot. It may not have been a double charge, just the result of continued hammering with over-charges.

You read that a little to hasty, Griff. He was loading 26 grains all along. What he meant was that when he had said previously that 52 grains probably wouldn't allow a bullet to be seated, he had been mistaken and measured out 62 grains for the test. At 52 grains you can seat the bullet for disastrous results, as Dragonrider showed in his post.

This was almost undoubtedly a double charge and not "fatigue".

You're right... forgot about the 1st post by the time I got to page 8!

[.45colt]

I read the whole post. I think it was a double charge of 2400. I have a Marlin 1895. they are a light, handy, rifle to shoot and carry when hunting. I do not consider them in the class of the '86 no matter what the manuals say, re-loading can be dangerous like a lot of things in life. We are fortunate that fellow shooters have the Guts to post these things when It happens. I'm glad He didn't lose His hand or worse.

[Grizz]

I agree that overcharge sounds and seems like the most likely explanation. And I agree that the Marlin is not the equal, not even close, to the Winchester 1886 design.

I always load DOWN pressure for my guide gun and another marlin, but I shoot a heavy bullet that will penetrate all the way thru any animal I'll ever see, from any direction. That's with a round deliberately loaded for reduced pressure.

That's the principle, but it doesn't secure the gun from accidental mis-loads.

I set up a rig to weigh loaded rounds. It's a pain to put a hundred thru it, but it's the only check I know of that's certain to catch a problem round, including one with no powder. Which I have managed to do.

With modern cheap electronic scales the weights could be tallied in a hot hurry.

Grizz

[Old Time Hunter]

Did the previous bullet hit the target or was it still stuck in the barrel?

Was right next to a guy once that did that. I have electronic noise canceling muffs, he had ear plugs. I heard a dink kind of sound and turned just as he jacked another round into the chamber. Tried to say something but he did not react. The barrel and chamber of that 336 (35 Remington) looked like a tulip.

Half his left hand was smeared on the back side of the cartridge stop on the station to his left. Lost my belt after making a tourniquet, he took it to the hospital in the back of the ambulance.

We all inspected the gun...sure enough, there was a bullet stuck an inch or so in front of what used to be the chamber. Parts of the other bullet were imbedded in the same cartridge stop along with what used to be a hand.

Interestingly enough, his load tag on the box said 20 grains of 2400...

[Ray Newman]

Ol Time Hunter: per the shooter, he loaded four rounds. First two hit the target, the third blew up, and the fourth blew up in the magazine tube.