.32-20 WCF "cat's sneeze" load

[Ysabel Kid]

Fellas -

Anyone out there have a recommendation for a quiet, sub-sonic "cat's sneeze" load for the .32-20 WCF round?

Here's the cast bullets I have on hand:

110-grain .312" LRN-FP
115-grain .313" LRN-FP
118-grain .313" FPFB

I also have some of these for .32 S&W and .32 S&W Longs:

78-grain .313" LRN

Looking to use these in my Remington Model 25 (slide action) rifle in my basement range. If I find a load that is quiet enough, it might get used for pest control. Just saying...

Thanks!

YK

[earlmck]

I don't know about the 78 grain bullet, but any of the others ahead of 2 grains of Red Dot (or something similar) should be a gentle sneeze. With the 78 grain I'd be guessing -- maybe a grain and a half?

[AJMD429]

Just make sure you don't get a bullet so slow it fails to exit the barrel.

I almost made 32-20 my suppressed-levergun cartridge just so I could get a companion barrel for my Contender and lob 180-220 grainers like 300 Blk does...

[hayabusa]

http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDa ... Winchester

There is a page of data on this forum site.

There is a thread on MarlinOwners.com. The thread is (32-20 reloaders), 16 pages at this time. It is a sticky.

It looks like there is some 32-20 load data in the June 2014 issue of "Handloader" (issue #290): data using some of the more modern powders (Longshot, Power Pistol, Auto Comp) not normally associated with this round as well as data using some of the "usual suspects" (H-110, IMR 4227, Unique, etc). If you are interested it might be worth your effort to pick up a copy of this issue.

By Jim Taylor the article (While It Was Out) on LeverGuns home page I think (http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/1894cl.htm).

Down under speciality loads
SPECIALTY LOADS
Silent Loads

95 gr. Lee
2.5 gr. 2400 491 fps
4.8 gr. 3031 420 fps

#3118
4.8 gr. 3031 432 fps

Article is about a Marlin CL 32-20.

This might be of some help.

hayabusa

[Sixgun]

Kid,
For cat sneeze loads, the best way to do it is with the heaviest possible LEAD slug with the SOFTEST possible alloy. So.....in your case use a 115 gr SOFT slug and 1.5 gr. of Bullseye. If the bullet material is harder, use 2 grains of Bullseye...but.....the report will be louder.----6

[Rusty]

Do you have any .310 round balls?

I enlarged the flash holes in some .30-30 cases and launched the RBs with just a primer. Seat the ball flush in the case mouth and add a drop of melted candle way on top of the ball for lube. I shot mine out of a Handi Rifle so running them thru the action wasn't a concern.

[piller]

Hmmm... Would any of the above work in a .327 Federal Magnum? It gives very similar velocities to the .32-20. I think I will have to get some Magnum small pistol primers and some .32 caliber round balls. A little enlargement of the flash holes might be good in a Ruger SP101. Since the performance is very similar, and the 115 grain lead flat nose bullet is the same for both rounds, it sounds to me as if it would work. Rounds that won't annoy the neighbors, and won't get the cops called, probably would be useful. There is an abandoned house a few doors down, and my Atlas Terror doesn't get to spend all her time hunting the rats that leave the house in search of food.

[Old Ironsights]

As always... look to the Old Timers:

"SILENCE IS GOLDEN!"

By CHARLES E. HARRIS

Many years ago I had occasion to make up some subsonic loads in 7.62 NATO for use in a suppressed M21 sniper rifle, which is based upon the M14. The NATO-type 148-gr. FMJBT bullet is not adequately stabilized in the 12" twist of rifling barrel at subsonic velocities, but the 110-gr. FMJRN bullet used in the .30 M1 carbine cartridge works well and is quiet with 6 grains of Hercules (now Alliant) Bullseye.

The most effective "Silent Without Silencer" rifle I have is an old English "Rook Rifle" which was originally chambered for the .360 No.5. Most of these rifles will fire .38 Long Colt ammunition without alteration, but I have found it much better to rechamber them to use .38 Special. Standard velocity 148-gr. hollow-based wadcutter target ammunition is very quiet and accurate, and gives about 870 fps in a 25" barrel. The Marlin 1984 "Cowboy" lever action rifles with 24" barrels are accurate and fairly quiet with ordinary standard velocity 158-gr. lead bullet factory loads which provide about 950 fps. For minimum noise, I handload the factory Remington 158-grain swaged lead SWC bullets with 4 grains of W-W 231 or 3.5 grains of Bullseye for about 850 f.p.s. Below this velocity accuracy suffers due to inadequate bullet stability.

For another quiet combination with available factory rifles and ammunition, use .32 S&W Long factory loads with the 98-gr. lead roundnosed bullet in old rifles chambered for the .32-20 Winchester. These were very popular ranchers and farmers guns in the USA prior to 1940 and are highly prized today by turkey hunters. Standard factory .32 S&W Long ammunition is very quiet and accurate to 50 yards or so, although fired cases swell up a bit.

It is much better to reload a reduced charge of 3 grains of Bullseye in the .32-20 case with the standard 100-gr. flatnosed cast lead bullet which is popular for Cowboy Action Shooting. I use the Ideal Nr. 3118 bullet cast for the .32-20 in the .30-30 Winchester with 4 grains of Bullseye. In old rifles with 24" or longer barrels this is very quiet. Newly manufactured Marlin "Cowboy" guns will give the same result.

IMR shotshell powder "PB," which stands for "porous based" is a fine grained and easily ignited, bulky powder intended for trap, skeet loads and upland game bird loads. This powder burns very similarly to Alliant's Unique or VihtaVuori's N320, which makes it excellent for subsonic loads. For cast lead plainbased bullets weighing from 100 to 130 grains, a charge of 4 grains of PB works provides subsonic velocity in .32-20 rifles, and 5 grains in the 7.62x39, 6 grains in the .30-30, and 7 grains in the .303 British, 7.62 NATO or 7.62x53R. If jacketed bullets are substituted, it is absolutely necessary that the bore be thoroughly cleaned, lightly oiled, the bullets themselves lightly lubricated by tumbling in Lee Liquid Alox, and these charges also increased by 1 grain, across the board.

C.E. Harris


http://guns.connect.fi/gow/ed.html

[piller]

I noticed that his rifle and his pistol rounds were not the same. The pistol rounds sound as if they could be easily carried over to a .327 round. I need to do some experimenting now that I have the vision back in my right eye.

[Sixgun]

OI hit a good point.......for those who don't reload or are too lazy to....the 32-20 chamber will fire the 32 S&W short, long, and also the 32 auto. Now that my brain is in gear, it will also shoot the 32 mag. (I think) I've done them all, sometimes looking to get rid of a mess of old ammo. The 32 auto will not catch the extractor so just blow down the barrel or keep a piece of rod handy....they fall right out.

YK Is looking for very quiet loads and while the 3 grains of Bullseye is pretty quiet, it still will make noise in his neighborhood of shirts and ties. Half of that powder will be the "cats meow" or like some like to call it...."cat sneeze". Yea, we got too many cats prowling the night....lots of coons too. Shoot them and avoid any trouble

Piller....your thinking too much....standard primers and a small shot of powder will do the job.----6

[Hobie]

OI hit a good point.......for those who don't reload or are too lazy to....the 32-20 chamber will fire the 32 S&W short, long, and also the 32 auto. Now that my brain is in gear, it will also shoot the 32 mag. (I think) I've done them all, sometimes looking to get rid of a mess of old ammo. The 32 auto will not catch the extractor so just blow down the barrel or keep a piece of rod handy....they fall right out.

YK Is looking for very quiet loads and while the 3 grains of Bullseye is pretty quiet, it still will make noise in his neighborhood of shirts and ties. Half of that powder will be the "cats meow" or like some like to call it...."cat sneeze". Yea, we got too many cats prowling the night....lots of coons too. Shoot them and avoid any trouble

Piller....your thinking too much....standard primers and a small shot of powder will do the job.----6

Sixgun meant to say the .327 Federal will also safely chamber and fire those cartridges, NOT the .32 WCF (aka 32.20).

[Ray]

Deleted.

[JimT]

If you want totally silent loads out of a rifle, you have to use slower burning powders. The loads I developed had no muzzle report at all. The only sound was the hammer going CLACK. They shot through cats just fine.
If you don't care about it being totally silent, the faster powders like Bullseye in small doses work just fine. Work up your loads with a cleaning rod handy.

[M. M. Wright]

Not a "cat sneeze" load but my regular 32-20 load is 3.5 Red Dot under a 112 grain bullet. Works great on vermin of all kinds.


This is what it does to vermin, (rats).

[Ysabel Kid]

If you want totally silent loads out of a rifle, you have to use slower burning powders. The loads I developed had no muzzle report at all. The only sound was the hammer going CLACK. They shot through cats just fine.
If you don't care about it being totally silent, the faster powders like Bullseye in small doses work just fine. Work up your loads with a cleaning rod handy.

Thanks Jim! That is what I am looking for - the sweet sound of silence (or as near to it as I can get). Sixgun is close; I live in a neighborhood with a lot of working-class professionals. Some stay-at-home Mom's sprinkled throughout the community would probably get highly agitated to here anything even muffled coming from my basement. I would like to avoid unwanted knocks on my door!

[earlmck]

So I'm sitting around the house "confined to quarters" so to speak, nursing along a newly replaced left knee, knowing I won't be getting out to the old gravel pit for another couple weeks at least. And I had found the following from JimT and hayabusa most fascinating when I read them the other day and thought I'd get back and pursue the thought vicariously through the old QuickLoad program. You fellers know how it goes, messing around with substitutes when you can't do the real thing for one reason or another.

Jim (and probably some others) already figured this out long ago, but for us newcomers I thought it would be appropriate to pass along the observation that the usually reliable QuickLoad agrees totally with Jim. Yep, use the slower burners to generate equal or even less velocity than you should get out of fast burners, and the muzzle pressure (whence comes the sound) is lower. QL thinks you could almost just as well use 4831 as 3031 even! Like Jim says, you should have a good rod handy in case one of these doesn't come on through the barrel, but it appear to me that if QL is right, a bit more volume of the slower powders is less likely to leave a bullet stuck in the barrel, given equal low velocities just because you nicely exceed the "shot start" pressure needed to get things going even with the low end of cat sneeze loads. I haven't loaded any of these up yet but I'm a-gonna!

Thanks much for the valuable info, Jim!

If you want totally silent loads out of a rifle, you have to use slower burning powders. The loads I developed had no muzzle report at all. The only sound was the hammer going CLACK. They shot through cats just fine.
If you don't care about it being totally silent, the faster powders like Bullseye in small doses work just fine. Work up your loads with a cleaning rod handy.

By Jim Taylor the article (While It Was Out) on LeverGuns home page I think (http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/1894cl.htm).

Silent Loads

95 gr. Lee
2.5 gr. 2400 491 fps
4.8 gr. 3031 420 fps

#3118
4.8 gr. 3031 432 fps

Article is about a Marlin CL 32-20.

This might be of some help.
hayabusa

[Sixgun]

Your right Ray...I did mean the 32-20........I've shot all kinds of 32 revolver ammo out of an old 92.

Gotta try that slower powder-----6