Anybody use the Barnes 300 gr TSX 45-70 bullet?

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:22 pm

I was going to use cast bullets for hunting but then the ever present do gooders got a ban on lead bullets in the range of the California Condor. I figure as they increase their range, the areas in which lead bullets may be used will decrease. Hence, the all copper Barnes bullet. Anyone have any real world hunting experience with this bullet. I've heard great things about the TSX 30-30 bullet, but nothing so far with the 45-70 bullet. I'm even thinking of switching to the 250 gr Barnes .452 bullets for my Vaqueros. Can you still use lead bullets on environmentalists? Oops, forget the last question!

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:21 pm

Sorry, I don't know the answere to this but I am very interested to find out. I would like to try them too. SOOO BTT.

YellowHorse · Post by **YellowHorse** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:55 pm

I should know better by now, but it never ceases to amaze me the total vacuity of environmentalists.

We can not use use lead, but we can use copper

It seems the gun control advocates may have commenced a sneek attack on ammo.

I just heard that they are also trying to introduce legislation that Cali residents will need to have a annual permit to buy ammunition. You will have to pay for a background check and liscence every year. You would be limited in how much ammo you can buy per month and all the ammo you buy will be recorded into a database.

What's going on here gentlemen?

I was talking to my fellow church goers (it's a little country community church and the only people I know personally that have firearms). I was talking to one woman and she and her husband have some military surplus rifles and ammo that they like to take to the range for some family fun.

It seems they can't take the FMJ surplus ammo to most of the open ranges because "they are a fire hazard." The only time they can use them is when the threat of fire is low, one range will allow them for a short part of the year.

edit: as for the Barnes, since I'm learning all the rule and regs for hunting here in Cali, I have been talking to people about hunting roundsand I just heard some really great things about them. I can't vouch for them myself as I haven't used them yet

86er · Post by **86er** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:09 pm

The few customers I have hosted that used the Barnes in 45-70 had good results. What they found was that the bullet has fairly narrow parameters that it performs within as it was intended. I don't remember exactly what they were but I think an IMPACT velocity of 1200 -1450 fps. Slower did not expand and faster caused the petals to peel rapidly and break off creating more or less a solid to continue. So from the limited information I have been exposed to, the worst you could do is cause it to be an all copper solid if you loaded it outside the intended operating range. Even that doesn't sound too bad.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:27 pm

Yellowhorse, I was at A Place to Shoot when a fire started from ammo. They brought 40 trucks and 3 helicopters and billed $11,000 - not what a range wants.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:59 am

Old Savage wrote:Yellowhorse, I was at A Place to Shoot when a fire started from ammo. They brought 40 trucks and 3 helicopters and billed $11,000 - not what a range wants.

Is it FMJ ammo that starts fires or surplus tracer ammo? I see a lot of Winchester White Box FMJ 223 ammo (and other brands) being sold for the Black Rifle shooters here in Kalifornia.

As to the TSX 45-70 bullets, I didn't plan on pushing them at hyper speeds since I had both shoulders rebuilt. I was going to shoot them out of a 450M barrel cut down to 16" and use it as sort of a woods bumming carbine as opposed to a 16" 454 Puma '92. I figured the approx 1 lb heavier 1895M with a larger cartridge loaded to lower pressure for the same velocity as the 454 would work better for my shoulder. With my 56 y/o eyes and a peep sight it won't be used past 100 yds. I just wanted to know if it would do the job against a PO'd wild boar (Russian) or bear in a close encounter of the ugly kind. Maybe for those purposes the Barnes 450 gr Banded Solids would work better? I could practice with Beartooth Piledrivers and carry the solids. Who'd of thought that machinists would be turning out bullets on a lathe, rather than traditional methods of bullet making?

YellowHorse · Post by **YellowHorse** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:39 am

NonPCnraRN wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Yellowhorse, I was at A Place to Shoot when a fire started from ammo. They brought 40 trucks and 3 helicopters and billed $11,000 - not what a range wants.
Is it FMJ ammo that starts fires or surplus tracer ammo? I see a lot of Winchester White Box FMJ 223 ammo (and other brands) being sold for the Black Rifle shooters here in Kalifornia.

I don't understand how a fire can be started by FMJs... unless the people are hitting the rocks and the resulting sparks ignite a fire????

I can understand tracer ammo not being allowed.

edit: I just spoke with the wife, I asked her about the ranges restrictions and she said if the bullet sticks to a magnet, they won't allow it in.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:18 pm

YellowHorse wrote:
NonPCnraRN wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Yellowhorse, I was at A Place to Shoot when a fire started from ammo. They brought 40 trucks and 3 helicopters and billed $11,000 - not what a range wants.
Is it FMJ ammo that starts fires or surplus tracer ammo? I see a lot of Winchester White Box FMJ 223 ammo (and other brands) being sold for the Black Rifle shooters here in Kalifornia.
I don't understand how a fire can be started by FMJs... unless the people are hitting the rocks and the resulting sparks ignite a fire????

I can understand tracer ammo not being allowed.

edit: I just spoke with the wife, I asked her about the ranges restrictions and she said if the bullet sticks to a magnet, they won't allow it in.

Copper and lead are not capable of making sparks, but steel does. Copper and brass spoons are used to dig out the dud charges in a mine to re-load the explosives. The inability to spark and the hardness are the reason, and lead is too soft for this work.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:02 pm

It is the steel core ammo they won't let you use. You can tell as mentioned with a magnet. It looks like FMJ. I didn't see the ammo used at the fire that occurred when I was there but the folks shooting left immediately. The fire started small and spread very quickly.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:07 pm

86er wrote:The few customers I have hosted that used the Barnes in 45-70 had good results. What they found was that the bullet has fairly narrow parameters that it performs within as it was intended. I don't remember exactly what they were but I think an IMPACT velocity of 1200 -1450 fps. Slower did not expand and faster caused the petals to peel rapidly and break off creating more or less a solid to continue. So from the limited information I have been exposed to, the worst you could do is cause it to be an all copper solid if you loaded it outside the intended operating range. Even that doesn't sound too bad.

Is there a way that we can find this confirmed info for the .45-70 and the .30-30? I have checked the Barnes site and they give some loads (none using any of my available powders); but there are no effective velocity windows for the loads, of the type that Hornady supplies for their XTP bullets.

I'm one of those Californians who will have to "bite the bullet" when it comes to lead hunting rounds, once the new Condor Laws are passed for my area; I want to work up some copper loads.

Secondly - any stories from pig hunters who have used the .30-30 with a handloaded all-copper bullet? Any loads?

TomD · Post by **TomD** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:18 pm

I don't have any, but I asked the same question about deer and got a lot of info on the 150 grain, and it sounded real good. I'd search the old site.

Duff L Bagg · Post by **Duff L Bagg** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:02 pm

JohndeFresno wrote: Secondly - any stories from pig hunters who have used the .30-30 with a handloaded all-copper bullet? Any loads?

Back in 93 I used the PMC Star Fire (I think that is what they were called)
on several south Florida hogs with impressive results. All 4 hogs were shot at between 60 and 100 yards. The bullets expanded very nicely leaving a 1 inch exit would on all of the hogs. Three of the hogs droped on the spot the last one ran 20 yards, but he was already starting to get out of dodge when I shot. I have not used the Barnes Bullets but if they preform as well as the PMC bullets did I would have no problems using them on deer and hogs.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:04 am

Thanks, Tom - I'll look it up. Thank for the update, Duff.

Camp Cook · Post by **Camp Cook** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:52 am

I bought one box and loaded them up for my T/C Contender Carbine in 45-70.

I haven't shot anything other than paper with them yet though.

I am getting very good accuracy with them.

A bear hunting guide I know swears by these bullets and uses them himself says they are the best 45-70 bullet he has ever used on black bears.

He carries a Marlin 1895GS when guiding.