Guess which one jammed...

[AJMD429]

Big Guns One Jammed.jpg

Hint # 1 - it was from shooting too many lead bullets. (*)

Hint # 2 - it put the gun out of service for several minutes.

Hint # 3 - the gun was shooting 45 ACP.

Well, since it was 'interesting enough to post' of course it wasn't the 1911 (Para P-14 double-stack), or even the double-action revolver. It was the single-action.

The problem - since the 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth, or so I am told, even in the revolver, 'crud' in the form of a sliver of lead, had accumulated in two of the chambers, so cartridges protruded just enough to catch the recoil-shield. At first I thought it was because I was shooting reloaded ammo that maybe had been reloaded so many times that even in the 45 ACP, there was some sort of case-stretching, but switching cartridges and chambers clarified that.

It required removal of the cylinder (speedy in the Blackhawk), but I had no tools with me, or even a house key, so had to use a piece of 'range-brass' as a tool to push the cartridge out, and even that was difficult (the soft lead had wedged the round in place) in one of the rounds. I tried scraping the crud-ring out with the case, but it was a 7.62x39 brass (or brass plated steel ???) one, and either not getting to the crud due to taper, or just too soft.

Anyway, it just goes to show that any gun can 'fail' if not properly maintained, and no doubt even when it is. The good news is that since I finally was able to get a significant amount of 'self defense quality' ammo in 45 ACP, I've been shooting a magazine-full every time I hit the range, and that Para Ordnance P-14 just keeps on working perfectly...

Pretty soon I'm gonna get one of them fancy-schmancy CeraKote finishes on it, just to 'reward' it for working so well.




* - well, actually it was from 'operator error' in not inspecting and cleaning the firearm appropriately. . . . . . ammunition and firearm were both functioning just fine.

[plowboy 45]

Been wondering about how to shoot 45 acp in my vaquero, is it a different cylinder or some sort of moon clip
Would be interested in one which ever way.

[Buck Elliott]

Doing so is a perversion of design, and obviously fraught with peril...

They still make guns, designed for the ACP cartridge.. Choose one of those...

[J Miller]

AJMD,

You are not the only one to experience that. I've had it happen with two Ruger Blackhawks using lead bullet ammo. What you might get away with in an auto the Ruger will balk at.
You've got to take special care to make sure the exposed lead is smaller than the chamber throat on the Ruger cylinders.

Using jacketed bullets eliminate that problem. But what's the fun in that?

Joe

[AJMD429]

Been wondering about how to shoot 45 acp in my vaquero, is it a different cylinder or some sort of moon clip
Would be interested in one which ever way.

The Blackhawk requires no 'clips' - just a separate cylinder. The 22 LR and 22 WMR Single Six's and the 9mm and 357 Mag Blackhawks are set up the same way.

For best reliability, and speed in loading/unloading, I'd think a full-moon clip setup would be better, or as Buck says, a genuine 1911. However, it is fun to shoot the lighter stuff on occasion, and using 45 ACP's in a gun you're used to shooting 'Ruger' 45 Colt loads out of, or using 9mm in a gun you usually shoot 357 Mag out of, is a treat. Of course you can load up some 'light' loads, but some folks don't want to mess with reloading, or keep track of two sets of loads (lame excuses perhaps), and I'd rather shoot 9mm's in my 357 Mag Blackhawk than 38 Specials, which really can leave a 'crud ring' in the chambers. Of course in this case, such happened even using the round it was chambered for. However, for my purposes, the primary purpose of the firearms in question is served by the traditional 'revolver' chambering, so that cylinder is the one I want always functional to perfection, whereas if the 9mm or 45 ACP one is messed up, it's more of a 'range irritation' than an interference with hunting or self defense.

I believe gunsmiths sometimes modify the 'headspace on the case mouth' cylinders to take full-moon or half-moon type clips, but I've never seen one done that way.

[Malamute]

I have an ACP cylinder that fits my Vaquero (They wont fit one from the factory, it was just luck to find one that fit the gun). I've had trouble with it with lead and jacketed bullets. The jacketed take longer to crud up, but they do get sticky to rotate the cylinder after a while.

My seat of the pants theory on that is the self loader is shoving the round in with the slide weight/momentum and the recoil spring. A revolver has none of that working for you. I think the ACP cylinder is handy to have for travel, as 45 auto ammo is easier to find should I need ammo, but its just plain easier to use the 45 Colt cylinder, so don't bother with the ACP one much.

[plowboy 45]

Thanks for straightening me out Buck, brought me back to my senses.
Should never embarrass myself or vaquero that way.
I do that enough by not bein able to hit with it.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have not had that problem with any of my .45 convertibles but I only shoot 20:1 in them or Berry`s plated bullets. I also plunk test all my ammo after I load it using a gauge from Dillon.

All of my Blackhawks are very accurate when shooting .45 ACP.

[Old Ironsights]

When I had my FA .454 I also had an ACP cylinder for it. After who knows how many rounds it never malfed, even with the FA's insanely tight tolerances.

I used to use it as an "exhibition" cylinder/gun to shoot standard 18" gongs at 150-200 yds... using a stopwatch to time the bullet flight.

[carbluesnake]

There are many people that do not believe an 18" gong can be hit with a pistol at such ranges. If one keeps a sharp eye on sight alignment and a good trigger press, one can do seemingly amazing things with a pistol. It's nice to hear of you doing it.

[Old Ironsights]

There are many people that do not believe an 18" gong can be hit with a pistol at such ranges. If one keeps a sharp eye on sight alignment and a good trigger press, one can do seemingly amazing things with a pistol. It's nice to hear of you doing it.

When I had the gun, it started as a Lark. I had been showing off my 350gr Bear Loads at a gun-guy picnic when guys started flinging pistol rounds at the far target (185yds).

Just for grins I dropped in my ACP cylinder into my 7-1/2" FA, topped out the rear sight, and let fly at the top edge of the gong... and waited...

It hit.

So I tried again... and waited some more.

It hit again.

And I had the attention of the group... who all had to try, and most succeeded. (The FA is an amazing gun...)

With ACP loads the FA recoiled like a .22, so there was no distractions to finding the sweet spot right off the top edge of the gong.

Oh... FWIW, neither I (nor anyone else in attendance) was EVER able to hit the same gong with Full House .454 Whompum Stompers... Oh well...

[retmech]

The ACP cylinder has a step in it that the ACP case headspaces on. When loading lead bullets you want NO lead shoulder forward of the case mouth as it hits the cylinder step. All lead SWC's should be loaded with the shoulder even or a hair behind the case mouth. You will have no problems then. I have fired hundreds of ACP's in my Ruger convertable with out cleaning or problems.

[Chuck 100 yd]

retmech , There ya go. Agree 100%. Bullet design is very important. I use the
RCBS 45-130-CA 230 gr. cast bullet mostly. It was designed for the ACP but also has a crimp groove and is my favorite cast bullet in both .45 Colt and .45 ACP and is my go to CAS bullet.

[vancelw]

Been wondering about how to shoot 45 acp in my vaquero, is it a different cylinder or some sort of moon clip
Would be interested in one which ever way.

You can't use a moon clip on a SAA clone unless you remove the cylinder from the frame to reload each time....there's that pesky pin in the center. And you already have an ejector rod. A DA needs the clip to headspace and facilitate extraction.