Ain't worth chopping wood

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madman4570
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Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by madman4570 »

My new Keystoker Koker Coal Stoker

Installed Nov 19th
Up to today counting adding a bag today used 16 bags of 30lb Rice Coal
What I did is get 150 reusable coal bags and place one in a Lowes 5gal bucket. Weighed 30lbs of coal with weight of bucket taken out.
Comes to 3/4 of a full bucket.So I am pretty accurate of what I am using! Got it marked also on bucket outside.

So for 19 days of cold weather here I have used 480lbs of Rice Coal.
If I remember right seems to me I used that much poundage of wood in Newmac furnace in about 10 days ?

Buy the way, When they installed the gasket on front fire door they said let it set 24hrs. I said how often do I need to do maintenance on the inside like I had to with Harman Pellet stove? They said with the exception of putting coal in hopper every 3 days and emptying ash bucket every 3 days that door don't need opening. Just at end of season do a full clean and use a toothpick to clean out any plugged holes in fire pot area.

Guess what? I have never opened that door yet! :lol: :mrgreen:
She is running fine. Only fire I see is the glowing light in ash bucket bottom area when opening bottom ash door.

How the heck can you beat that?
Last edited by madman4570 on Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Blaine
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by Blaine »

I don't think you can beat that at all......(Does that have a battery backup for the auger?) My ace-in-the-hole for no electric is a free standing cast iron gas log stove.....
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madman4570
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by madman4570 »

My Harman did. This one can too.
However with this Keystoker because of just putting a new metal roof on and also I am keeping my Newmac combination furnace as is
I elected to have the Direct Vent System go through my concrete wall. The owner of Coal Company/Stove Dealer did that for a freebie.

Because I need not only the auger to run but the fan in the vent for draft I am looking into getting the heaviest duty backup keystoker allows and keep warranty.

I do have other alternatives until, like open my Newmac furnace blower door adding some wood and just let gravity work its magic though not as well as with blower running.

What I plan on doing is, now that I see they can install a 4" tiny stainless pipe up side of house with brackets and not mess with roof this summer I am going to do the chimney and just unplug direct vent fan.

It is nice though how they did it. In my basement over the concrete walls I have 4'x8' panels of 1" T&G blue styrene insulation then sheetrock. They used through the wall only cutting a 7" dia hole a 6" insulated stainless sleeve that the 4" stainless stove pipe goes through to its little dog house cap on outside basement wall. So, with the exception of a 1" surrounding border of normal yellow fiberglass insulation 1" around that 6" insulated pipe everything is exactly intact and nothing has been changed nor does anything need doing on wall and looks good and is very tight in the heat loss dept.

Also, up stairs in kitchen I am going to put in a Keystoker Radiant Cook Stove. No electric required whatsoever and they only cost about $1080 cash price. :shock: 70,000 BTU and they look good and looks to take a 4" pipe too. Actually if I would have know they were that reasonable I would have had them do both at the same time!
http://www.keystoker.com/products.php#krs
this is that stove and also though usually the bigger size coal for that is preferred I am told in emergency situation it will burn same coal as stoker but probably I will just get a few tons of recommended type.
madman4570
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by madman4570 »

Blaine look at it this way.
In this area this year has so far been extremely cold compared to normal years.
Like right now it is 19 degrees.

So with the exception of the tiny electric cost of vent fan and auger motor I had 480lbs of coal.
Lets say a ton is $240

480lbs / 2000lbs= .28 tons

$240 * .28= $67 for 19 days

Assuming the average temp of this heating season (mid Oct- mid April) is even as cold as what this cold spell has averaged

19 days / 30days = .63 of month

the remaining cost of 37% of month will be 11 days which will be another 25.26 lbs of coal per day which is 277.86 lbs which is .139 tons.

.139 * $240=$33.36 plus original $67= $100

$100 x 6 months = $600 for complete year!

Now----with the exception of every three days emptying the ash bucket and dumping in a wee bit of coal once during that three days.

Ain't cutting no wood ---and I got me wood! :mrgreen:
.45colt
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by .45colt »

Good on You Madman, right now I have about 40lb of nut coal cooking in the Harmon. I hope You have a big kitchen. when I sometimes go to Canada they have a wood/coal range in the cook house. the old saying "if You can't stand the HEAT stay out of the Kitchen fully applies to today as well.........
madman4570
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by madman4570 »

.45colt wrote:Good on You Madman, right now I have about 40lb of nut coal cooking in the Harmon. I hope You have a big kitchen. when I sometimes go to Canada they have a wood/coal range in the cook house. the old saying "if You can't stand the HEAT stay out of the Kitchen fully applies to today as well.........
:lol:

Yes Sir got a open tri level floor plan. Growing up all my life we heated with Coal.
Should have got into this years and years ago.

What really re sparked interest was my brother put in a Leisure Line Coal Stoker about 5 years ago and then daughter's boy friends place they have a Keystoker 105 Stoker stove. He has used his for about 4 years and when they got recently their new home he took that stove. :lol: He said he ain't no way letting that go and replaced it with something else. He is the one that I know that personally does not even touch stove with exception at end of season cleaning it. That thing heats like its unreal and I thought I gotta have one.

So when this new Koker lite just came out basically same stove except 1000cfm blower instead of 350cfm blower and a 200lb hopper instead of 100lb hopper and then being able to run top heat runs from it or just let the front air output work as is---done deal.

Will say also, Harmon makes absolutely work of art stoves.
The one I had was their smallest wood pellet stoker P38 Pro so it is not fair comparing it to this monster. Though actually its not big.
I bet yours heats unreal too! :mrgreen:

Honestly guys, I don't know how mine heats cause it has since bought always been just on a maintenance very low burn fire.
Have the thermostat for it set at 74 degrees which is located in basement on stairway wall about 5 steps up. Heat just goes through floor and also through open stairway door opening.
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AJMD429
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by AJMD429 »

I'd love to see pics of the setup. Sounds cool...
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Panzercat
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by Panzercat »

AJMD429 wrote:I'd love to see pics of the setup. Sounds cool...
Yeah, they're pretty stingy with the visuals :p
Until they feel more altruistic, here's the offical website :D

And here I thought getting a house with a fireplace was the bee's knees.
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madman4570
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by madman4570 »

Panzercat wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:I'd love to see pics of the setup. Sounds cool...
Yeah, they're pretty stingy with the visuals :p
Until they feel more altruistic, here's the offical website :D

And here I thought getting a house with a fireplace was the bee's knees.
Under the link you posted where to the left of web page under the Our Services section click on New Models and Options

Mine is the first one that pops up!

Also Installation and Service manual for Direct Vent and Koker Furnace


http://www.keystoker.com/manuals/2012/K ... mostat.pdf
http://www.keystoker.com/manuals/2012/K ... mostat.pdf

Cost is aprox $3100 if adapter for direct vent is added.(which was extra $500) They installed mine and also installed direct vent free!
Not that place shown though!
That place below shows if you have a chimney then the cost is around $2600(shipping included) :shock: Just install yourself.
http://www.cjshearthandhome.com/keystok ... l-furnace/
My is a rear vent but coming from top of stove.(you have choice of bottom or top rear vent)
Also I chose no glass!
At this time no duct work or plenum work, just the radiant heat and blower air from front heat output opening does the trick!
Notice on pic at very top of stove you see the front heat output opening.
What is cool about this stove(mini furnace)is they give you the metal cover with screws over that front heat output opening and then on top of stove you have a screwed plate aprox. 10" x 12" which that can be removed to provide a very large top heat output opening with front one covered and then a simple plenum can be put over that and just a simple one or more heat run pipe can go to wherever to you wish, say a register(s)for more upstairs heating. Or you can just let it through heat from that opening or both openings.
Very cool!
The radiant heat the stove also puts out will do the downstairs as well. Those covers are the same HD metal matching stove body.

Note: The Koker regular stove is almost the same but has even a larger heat output,250lb hopper, and 15000cfm blower.
However that one is double wall and in my case I wanted the lite because it is single wall and will transfer more radiant heat for the downstairs. The lite they say ideal for garage or workshop :lol: But it is the same basic stove as their large 105 stoker stove linked below but just with a bigger blower,bigger hopper and top or front hot air output capability. ie for heat runs if desired.

So far in cold weather this mini furnace on LOW , maintenance fire, heats like a volcano!
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by ndcowboy »

We use a coal stoker. Here in North Dakota we burn lignite coal, which isn't as good a quality or as hard as the east coast coal or the coal from Wyoming. We use about 16 tons a year in our furnace - at about $32 a ton.
I keep our coal in three hopper bins outside. I carry 8 to 10 five gallon bucks of coal every day to the stoker, and clean it out every 2 to 3 days.
madman4570
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

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ndcowboy wrote:We use a coal stoker. Here in North Dakota we burn lignite coal, which isn't as good a quality or as hard as the east coast coal or the coal from Wyoming. We use about 16 tons a year in our furnace - at about $32 a ton.
I keep our coal in three hopper bins outside. I carry 8 to 10 five gallon bucks of coal every day to the stoker, and clean it out every 2 to 3 days.
ndcowboy,

Ya, this coal here in the East in just absolutely unreal.
The rice coal is washed. I mean it is like a clean washed rock.

This system with this coal is MUCH cleaner and easier than my wood pellet stove and that was a very high quality pellet stove (Harman)

I keep pinching myself thinking it cannot be this good, I mean absolutely clean and it would be absolutely no problem had I put it upstairs in say the den or living room etc.

I read the manual and I wanted to be 100% sure I wasn't missing something.

I called Keystoker today was around 10am and talked to them.
I told them how I liked this unit and so far I have used about 500lbs of rice coal and explained how much better this was than my wood pellet stove. I told them with that pellet stove and the fine ash it killed vacuums like no tomorrow even shop vacs with drywall dust filters. Explained that to achieve heat from the exchanger they used a accordion style top heat exchanger.Unless this exchanger is cleaned every week it gets coated with a thick creosote type film that reduces its heat output efficiency.
Also the burn pot gets creasoted and gunked up with almost rock hard burned ash that has to be carefully chiseled out with their scrapping tool they provide. Also when dumping in a 40lb bag of pellets you get dust even if being very careful.Also instead of 26lbs of coal in a day could be 1-2 40lb bags of wood pellets.

I asked what do I need to do with the exception of spending 1 minute a day or every other day adding the coal and switching then dumping the ash bucket?

He said the only thing you will need to do, I said wait as I ran downstairs with furnace right in front of me,said OK I am standing at furnace. He said on top of your furnace because you went with a direct vent(no chimney)do you see the little black cylinder unit that has the small little fan in back? I said yes. He said, do you see the little door right in front that you should be looking directly at which has two little threaded knobs which are screws that keep cover closed? I said yes. He said if you are burning stove really hard when it gets extremely cold if you want sometime in January unplug furnace,unscrew those little knobs take a shop vac and just suck out any possible coal ash in that little front section of housing.He said they use Stainless blades inside that unit so it lasts a very long time.
If I had a regular chimney wouldn't have to even do that little housing clean in January.

That is it until season is over, then do a full vacuum inside furnace,apply little light motor oil to door hinges, and light motor oil to lube blower and auger motor and a spray of WD40 on pushing feeder rod in plain view on back of hopper.
That is it! Now, ready for following year.

I must be dreaming! It can't be this easy and cheap to heat and only spending at most 1 min a day! :shock:
Here is how it takes only one minute. And I am now doing it every day because why not?
Walk downstairs which I am always down there anyways cause its nice down there. I bend down grab the nice new shiny metal bushel basket that is empty right next to furnace in left hand. Open bottom ash door with right hand pull out other shiny metal bushel basket they give you that has about maybe at most couple quarts worth of coal ashes already in that bucket.Now with left hand slide empty basket in and close ash door with right hand. Pick up ash bucket with left hand and walk aprox. 10ft to basement door, open the door and walk about 20 ft and throw small amount of ashes out on dirt driveway.Walk back in close door and grab a 25-30lb small bag of already bagged clean washed rice coal already in basement and about 10ft from furnace. Dump in hopper. Done!
No way will I use over 3 tons this year, thinking about 2.5 tons.($600) $600 / 12 months= $50 a month
Drying clothes down there so no dryer electric cost now which the way wife was using that probably was almost that $50 :lol:
Using a neat umbrella type hanging clothes dryer canopy, now being that there is just the two of us!

Daughter now with the starting of her new professional career she said this Sat she switching to her own new whatever now Phone (her own contract)which will save us about $120 @ month there. :lol: Wife and I are going to Walmart and going to do the Track Phones or whatever the cheap stuff is , that will save another $40.
I called Road Runner and got my (all 3)package dropped to $110 from $170 :wink:
Now her College is done and she is a big shot making the big bucks when do we say "Honey ever thought about paying for your car insurance" ??
Guess we better not push it. :D

Martha, shut the door cause lean times are about over! :lol: :oops:
madman4570
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by madman4570 »

ndcowboy wrote:We use a coal stoker. Here in North Dakota we burn lignite coal, which isn't as good a quality or as hard as the east coast coal or the coal from Wyoming. We use about 16 tons a year in our furnace - at about $32 a ton.
I keep our coal in three hopper bins outside. I carry 8 to 10 five gallon bucks of coal every day to the stoker, and clean it out every 2 to 3 days.
That's a little work but for $470 heating your place and being in North Dakota, worth the effort for sure. :wink:

Average oil use in these parts is around 600 gals a year.
Let's see $4 x 600 gals===$2400 a year.

My aunt lives on top of a mountain with a pretty small place but gets wind. She uses 900 gal a year. $3600 a year. :roll:
Can you imagine every month $300 of the year just for heat??? Said she is too old to change now!
And also she uses an Eden Pure some!
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Re: Ain't worth chopping wood

Post by ndcowboy »

Madman,
You are completely right on the cost of other heating. We used propane for a short while when propane was really high. It was about $4000 a year for our house. I knew we had to do something.
Our furnace has three electric motors on it. One to run the auger, one to run the air flow to the burning coal, and one to run the blower. So there is some electricity cost in running the furnace. There is also the cost of hauling coal. I'm about 35 miles from the coal company that sells stoker lignite, and it always cost me around $50 a load with our grain truck to run over and get 6 or 7 ton. This year I paid a trucker $200 to bring 25 ton in one shot - which was a nice money AND work saver for me.
Of course, it is more hands on work than a gas or fuel oil stove with carrying oil and ashes, but exercise is good for the body and the soul.
Another plus is I put our furnace in the garage, so our garage is consistently 75 to 80 degrees which makes my wife pretty happy when she gets in her toasty warm car when it is 20 below outside.
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