32/20 on deer

[cooter303]

I have an old winchester 73 in 32/20 and would like to go deer hunting with it. I have loaded some 85 gr hornady hollow points for it with 10 gr of 4227. they are at 1300 fps. also have a 85 gr cast bullet with same load. is this ok for deer?

[.45colt]

The 32-20 is one of My favorite rounds. I would not shoot at a Whitetail with that load. I would want a 115gr cast going about 1300fps, which is about the original speed for the 32-20. then I would limit shots to 50 yards..... shot placement will be everything.

[FLINT]

I shouldn't reply since I don't have any personal experience, but I thinks I've read about other guys on here having success with that caliber on deer.

although as I do load for the .32H&R and 327 federal which is the same diameter bullet - I know that heavier bullets are available in .312, and I would personally probably lean towards the heavier bullets - since you are probably at the lower end of the 'enough for deer' range with the 32-20 as it is. I know hornady makes the xtp in 100 grain - and there are also I think 115 grain bullets now that are meant for the new 327 fed. also with cast you can probably easily get 120 grain bullets in .314.

so I guess my thought is, the 32-20 could probably work ok on deer, but I'd load the heavier bullets available instead of the lighter ones

[cooter303]

for 115 gr cast what would be a safe load in my 73 with imr 4227?

[86er]

Hey I'm all for using whatever you want so long as it is legal. And, you can kill a deer with a 22 rimfire if done just right as we all know. My personal observation is that you are going to shoot a deer with essentially the load I use in a .380 Auto. I would never think of the 380 Auto as a deer cartridge. I'm sure it'd work if applied right but I wouldnt purposely venture into the woods after deer with my 380. It happens to shoot a 85 grain handload at 1270 fps. It sounds similar to the load you described. If you decide to use your 32/20 I wish you good luck and I do hope it turns out positive.

[Canuck Bob]

I am like 86er, your gun your business usually. I own a modern 92 chambered in 32-20 and would use it on deer if carrying it in season for some other reason. However my rifle is strong and a 115 grain bullet can be pushed fairly hard compared to your 73 model rifle. Loaded hot, 2000 fps, my rifle is a marginal deer rifle but to be honest I do consider it a deer rifle to 50 paces. Many knowledgeable hunters would disagree. At 1300 fps it has about as much punch as a Hornet!

Here is a link to Paco's article on the 32-20. He rates your rifle as a Level 1 firearm strength wise. It is obvious you understand the limits of your rifle/cartridge combo. Keeping such a wonderful piece of history safe is good. If you go deer hunting please excercise very careful and selective shots at close range.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3220wcf.htm

[AJMD429]

Even the 380 ACP would be decent if fired from a rifle, and proper bullets selected.

I like 44 Mag out of a rifle best, but many, many deer have fallen to 32-20's no doubt; hunters 'back then' probably tended to be more patient and wait for a proper shot than these days.

[cooter303]

factory 115 gr 32/20 ammo should be ok in my 73. if so I will get a box and use them for hunting. use my 85gr for plinking.

[Canuck Bob]

factory 115 gr 32/20 ammo should be ok in my 73. if so I will get a box and use them for hunting. use my 85gr for plinking.

Good luck and you will join the club of hunters using lead bullets as well! I use Rem factory in mine and they are accurate and don't lead up the bore. They tell me those 73 toggle actions are smooth and quick.

[Tycer]

Cooter, If you have trouble finding ammo, let me know. I have some 115 grain Magnus #202 I can send your way.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I agree, stay with the heavy bullets and fire up the BBQ !!!

[tman]

I have an old winchester 73 in 32/20 and would like to go deer hunting with it. I have loaded some 85 gr hornady hollow points for it with 10 gr of 4227. they are at 1300 fps. also have a 85 gr cast bullet with same load. is this ok for deer?

Yes it is.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I used a 1873 32-20 for years as a ground hog rifle. Personally from what I saw happen I would not want the 85 grainers on a deer. I would consider the 115 grain as minimum.
I want an exit hole. I want the best red trail possible to aid in finding that corn cruncher.
Only shots I would consider are through the ribs through both lungs, and heart if possible. Real close on a stationary calm deer I might consider a brain shot or spine shot.
If the 1873 32-20 is all I had then I would use it carefully in the field. It will down a deer. But you had best be very sure of your shot as this is a minimal power cartrige for a possible big animal.
An old Michigan hunter said "With pistol cartriges think about the bullet in grains for the weight of the intended target". Out of a rifle you get a bit more power but a 115 grainer still has not much inertia to carry it very far through tough tissue or bone. An 85 grainer will be even much less.
Those are my observasions of smacking 35 pound ground hogs. I will never use anything less than 115's ever again.
Mike in Peru

[Blaine]

Heavier bullets, and don't try a thru-the-shoulder shot I'd hunt in a blind/stand with a .22mag if it were legal Head shots, only, of course.

[cooter303]

I already shoot lead cast bullets,but my mould is only 85gr. the rifle shoots nice with them. I had the barrel relined. being up in Canada I had to ship the barrel to the states to get it done. but worth it.

[JerryB]

I have owned a 1892 Winchester 32-20 since 1953. It has killed a 10 foot gator and my uncle that sold it to me killed a lot of deer with it using the old factory loads that run about 1100 to 1200 fps. I load the 85 gr XTPHP and I would not be afraid of a head, heart, or neck shot with it. I carry it some every year, just have not had the shot come up yet. Limit your range and you can do it.

[Model 52B]

In 1941 when my dad was 15, he was driving a tractor with a Model 92 in .32-20 on board. It slipped and on the way down the hammer struck part of the tractor, sheared the half cock notch and shot him under the ribs with the bullet passing through a lung and exiting out the upper part of his back. He got off the tractor and walked a mile and half home, where they then drove him the 20 miles to town to the local doctor's office. The bullet fragmented on his lower rib on entry and left fragments all the way through, that over the years migrated all through his chest, making his chest X-rays interesting.

As bullet placement goes, the only way it would have gotten better was hitting the arteries above the heart, or the heart itself, so given it's clear lack of stopping power on dad, I've never been real enamored with the performance of the .32-20 on deer sized game.

I'd use a cartridge with a bit more poke and as small, light weight .30s go I regard the .30 Carbine as about the bare minimum, and then only with a well designed soft point.

If you are going to use a .32-20, then it will quite literally have to be a head, heart or neck shot with basically no tolerance for error in bullet placement.

[AJMD429]

"...so given it's clear lack of stopping power on dad, I've never been real enamored with the performance of the .32-20 on deer sized game....

Now THAT isn't a quote that looks good out-of-context. If your dad is still with us and has a good sense of humor, you should show it to him.

[Blaine]

so given it's clear lack of stopping power on dad

What would you recommend instead?

BTW, let's not forget the excellent results that hunters are getting with the larger calibre air rifles......Some astounding kills!

[BenT]

A 100 gr bullet or bigger at 1900fps , double lung shot at less than 75 yards will work. But I wouldn't push those velocities with the 73.

[cooter303]

well thanks for all the info. it almost sounds easier to buy a 30/30 than to hunt deer with the old 73

[3leggedturtle]

Use it the same way as you would a bow and arrow. 40 yards or less and slip it between ribs. Some one on here posted an ad about the Remington Model 25 pump rifles in 25WCF and 32WCF as being great for Deer sized animals and down. 3leg

[cooter303]

will have to try that. the bush is pretty thick around here. live in wet belt country. cedar and hemlock. so shots are not very far.

[Canuck Bob]

My uncle's neighbor used the old 22 Savage Hipower on moose! He fed his family and a few neighbors with it. I wouldn't but it was the depression and you used what you brought. No-one admits it but the 22lr killed a few too, bears as well. I was surprised to learn of this but most were active trappers and small bores weren't unheard of. Of course the 22lr was a trappers gun and in hand when needed.

I was preparing to use my 32-20 for a whitetail but advancing health issues have possibly ended my hunting days before it happened. Like Dirk's report there is lots of satisfaction in using a seasoned old veteran like your 73.

Keep us informed please.

[bubba15301]

My uncle's neighbor used the old 22 Savage Hipower on moose! He fed his family and a few neighbors with it. I wouldn't but it was the depression and you used what you brought. No-one admits it but the 22lr killed a few too, bears as well. I was surprised to learn of this but most were active trappers and small bores weren't unheard of. Of course the 22lr was a trappers gun and in hand when needed.

I was preparing to use my 32-20 for a whitetail but advancing health issues have possibly ended my hunting days before it happened. Lie Dirk's report there is lots of satisfaction in using a seasoned old veteran like your 73.

Keep us informed please.

i have used a 22 hipower savage 99 for deer for the last 25 years

[Model 52B]

Sadly, dad passed in 2002. He's now got a great view of a meadow, pine trees and the occasional elk.

-----

I'd recommend a bit more cartridge on deer - 150 grains at 2000 fps seems to get the job done pretty well under a wide range of conditions, even when the conditions are challenging as opposed to ideal.

I agree that nothing demonstrates what works better than what actually works, but people can fall into a logical fallacy of thinking that a long history of use doing something is the same as being good at doing something. You have to balance that with the reality that just because something has been used for 100 years for deer hunting and has been successful a large number of time, doesn't make it ideal or even all that good, especially if if has also been unsuccessful a large number of times.

As an non gun example, we could argue that the DC-3 has been in continuous service since 1935, making it the longest serving airliner and cargo plane in history and thus conclude it is very good even by a modern standard. However, as much as I love the DC-3, even a recently re-worked and modernized Basler turboprop converted DC-3 won't compare to more contemporary airliners in general revenue service in speed, load carrying capacity or operational efficiency. They still excel in some very limited applications, but they are no longer the "best in the world" airliner they used to be.

Cartridges like the .32-20 or, as another example, the .22 Hornet, fall in the same category. There are some things they do exceptionally well, but while they are both capable of taking deer, they are both pretty low on my list of "deer cartridges", as the probability of taking a deer successfully when the conditions or the shot are less than optimum start to get unacceptably low. I'd love to take a deer with my 1885 in .22 Hornet, and I know that I could do that under ideal conditions allowing very precise bullet placement. But unless I am willing to only shoot under conditions where I am 100% sure of being able to place the round with the required precision, it needs to stay in the rack as it has very little margin for any deviation from the ideal before it will no longer provide adequate terminal performance. The .32-30 is better, but only in degree as it still has some serious limitations that require a very disciplined shooter who is willing and able to pass on the majority of potential shots he or she will encounter.

The .30-30 has probably proven itself to be one of the most effective short and medium range deer cartridges in the world over the last 100 years and it still does the job as well now as it did then with no serious compromises or limitations at ranges under 250 yards, offering decent accuracy, low recoil and a flat enough trajectory with enough terminal performance to get the job done even if the shot is less than perfect. That's about the floor in performance for me in a deer cartridge.

As an elk cartridge however, it's again probably not in my list of good choices, even though people have been taking elk with the .30-30 for 100 years…

[Snaketail]

But seriously - the deer don't really care. And I don't think they are that much bigger than when my dad hunted East Texas with his 32-20. A good hunter will learn where to place the shot - a poor hunter will use a pickup truck.

M

[AJMD429]

Lots of guys in Indiana use 7mm Remington Magnum (even though it is not legal here), but they are the ones shooting at deer 300 or more yards away, that are running. Many of those deer are never recovered, so evidently even 7mm Rem Mag is "not enough cartridge for deer" when used in that manner.

It's all in how you use it.

Still, like Model 52B said, there is a practical 'floor' where 90% of us who hunt would not want to take the extra time and effort involved to set up just the right conditions for a proper and humane shot with a given level of power. The 32-20 is probably one of the cartridges at that border-line.

I have NO problem if someone more skilled or patient than me wants to use it, even though personally I'm too lazy, and want to stick with something that I am more sure will reliably and humanely drop a deer in the less-than-ideal scenario.

[Old Ironsights]

Use it the same way as you would a bow and arrow. 40 yards or less and slip it between ribs. Some one on here posted an ad about the Remington Model 25 pump rifles in 25WCF and 32WCF as being great for Deer sized animals and down. 3leg

This.

Think about it. Even a .410 slug (1/5 - 1/4 oz (87.5gr - 109gr) @ 1300fps will do the job, and has had to do so for small framed people in "shotgun only" areas for a long time.

It's certainly not "optimal", but it WILL ensure you are actually "hunting" and not just shooting...

[cshold]

Ballistics, what an industry
330 FPS combined with a mechanical 110 grain broadhead =
pass through dead deer.

[Canuck Bob]

Ballistics, what an industry
330 FPS combined with a mechanical 110 grain broadhead =
pass through dead deer.

For my education you don't calculate the shaft weight? I tried bow hunting many years ago and was not a good enough hunter to accomplish it!!! The broadheads I used were designed to slip all the way through if possible, long pointy entry followed by razor blades.

[Old Ironsights]

Deer have been reliably killed for the past 10,000+ years with nothing but Sticks.

You just have to do your part.

[cshold]

Ballistics, what an industry
330 FPS combined with a mechanical 110 grain broadhead =
pass through dead deer.

For my education you don't calculate the shaft weight? I tried bow hunting many years ago and was not a good enough hunter to accomplish it!!! The broadheads I used were designed to slip all the way through if possible, long pointy entry followed by razor blades.

Yes, the shaft weight is definitely the force factor in pushing those
razor blades to and threw the target.

[JerryB]

Just have to add one more thought for folks to consider. We don't know that cooter303 is the kind of hunter that would try a 150 yard shot with a 32wcf like most here seem to think. What round killed the Jordan buck??? Like casastahle said, what about you folks that have killed deer with an old longbow or a recurve. You probably shot within your own effective range knowing what you could do with it. How many have had to track a wounded deer and shoot again????

[3leggedturtle]

This is a rambling thought that ain't directed to or about anyone I figger'd anyone reloading for a 32WCF in a '73 has a pretty good idea of what range he can hit vital's with. Plus he has a type of turtle in his forumn-name so he must be ok and in the know

[tman]

This is a rambling thought that ain't directed to or about anyone I figger'd anyone reloading for a 32WCF in a '73 has a pretty good idea of what range he can hit vital's with. Plus he has a type of turtle in his forumn-name so he must be ok and in the know

Agree. That SHOULD BE ASSUMED already. It's like saying a 12 gauge slug gun is useless for deer, because a 400 yard shot might present itself.

[AJMD429]

How many have had to track a wounded deer and shoot again????

Just a guess, mind you, but here in Indiana, I'm betting that most wounded-but-got-away deer were not shot with anything in the 'marginally powerful' class (like the 32-20), but rather were shot with cartridges like 500 S&W Magnum or 7mm Remington Magnum (ones where an inexperienced shooter just assumed hitting the deer anywhere in the torso would make it drop right there).

[Tycer]

I used to spend time at the butcher shop in Anoka, MN after the first weekend of opener. I've seen hundreds of deer. The deer coming in were shot all over the place. The worst ones to see were shot with a varmint type bullet that would literally destroy a quarter or the bottom of a jaw. Sad. Some had multiple shallow wounds. 'Bout make me cry with anger. Quite a few had itty bitty holes through the heart/lung area and some with huge off-side holes. A few were neck shot behind the head. Every now and then you'd see some shot between the eye and ear with little damage other than a hole on each side.

My point is that you can use a 7mm uber-mag and ruin a life or you can use your 73 and harvest deer ethically. Hunt well, shoot well and shoot until it drops. One of the joys of a levergun is the fast fast follow up shots. I will be carrying my Rem 25 in 32-20 this year's deer season when woods hunting and my 358 Win BLR in the open areas.

[Tycer]

Double post

[cooter303]

ya it would be a stupid person to think they could drop a deer at 100 + yards with a 32/20. I would keep to 50 or 60 yards max.

[Tycer]

ya it would be a stupid person to think they could drop a deer at 100 + yards with a 32/20. I would keep to 50 or 60 yards max.

Now I would not go there at all.
I've done a fair bit of penetration testing of different calibers in different media including meat and bone and the 32-20 is no slouch at 100 yards. A 115 cast at 73 pressures will penetrate 7 milk jugs of water at 25 yards and 6 at 100 in my tests. Comparing that to other cartridges at both distances and how those performed on bone and meat, the penetration with a cast 115 in 32-20 will be complete on a broadside when not hitting a shoulder and might even go all the way through on a shoulder. The flat meplat on a 3118 should leave a clean 5/8" hole all the way through except for the hide which often will be a bit smaller or caliber size. Both my Win 92 and Rem 25 in 32-20 are plenty accurate for a broadside deer's vitals at 100. I'm not a good enough shot to attempt that on a moving animal with this cartridge.

You are welcome to limit yourself on your limitations, but the gun and cartridge should do it just fine. If a fine broadside presents itself to me at 100, I'm dropping that deer. Yum.

Now I have to backtrack a bit here. Seeing as you are in the great white north, a 250 pound deer at a hundred would get a pass from me, 60 yards...bang. Our deer here max out under 200 and I let the old guys walk. Too stringy and I don't hunt for trophy.

Good luck this season!!

[cooter303]

thanks for the info. trying to fill a muley doe draw. the 73 is the only rifle I have, so will make the most of it.

[Old Ironsights]

thanks for the info. trying to fill a muley doe draw. the 73 is the only rifle I have, so will make the most of it.

Make the most of what you have...

[QCI Winchesters]

Throw in my 2 cents; I have carried my old 1918 vintage .32WCF on dozens of adventures, and shot at least 40 raccoons with it. I have only ever used the Winchester factory load, or my own loads with FFG and 115gr. cast bullets. I did experiment with the lighter bullets early on, but was not impressed. My longest shot on a coon with the BP load was just over 200 yards, and he was DRT. Every coon I shot either died instantly, or within two feet. The bullets strike with a loud "THUD" and the coon invariably drops dead. I guess I could say "The .32WCF is, at least for me personally, the medicine gun for coons" LOL!

Anyhow, a big coon is pretty tough, and bullet placement is important. I would not hesitate to shoot a deer with mine, but I would confine it to head shots, and keep the range under 75 yards, tops. Preferably under 50. Stick to a cast bullet, 115gr. is tops and should shoot to the sights. If you have not tried it before, consider trying 18gr. of FFG black powder under the 115gr. bullet. The .32WCF is about the best cartridge for BP I have ever used. Almost no fouling, and they go off with a snap. Accuracy is very consistent.

When I carry my .32WCF, I am in predatory black bear country. Not my first choice should I encounter a hungry one, but it is comforting that I have 14 rounds in the tube! Oh, I did have a '73 in that calibre for a time, but ended up selling it and buying a .38WCF. The '73 was a ponderous thing to carry compared to my '92!

[Snaketail]

thanks for the info. trying to fill a muley doe draw. the 73 is the only rifle I have, so will make the most of it.

Absolutely right!

[MacEntyre]

A 100 gr bullet or bigger at 1900fps , double lung shot at less than 75 yards will work. But I wouldn't push those velocities with the 73.

I want to try that in my 94 year old 92.

- MacEntyre