Tips Needed: How To Remove a Broken Tap... (Now FIXED!!!)

[Old No7]

Dang it!

Ever have one of those "Sure, I can handle this job without messing it up!" ideas and then... $#*@% happens and you end up in a major fix???

My twin gave a Pope style wood palm rest that he wasn't using, for a really nice price too, and I figured that I could easily mount it to my Winchester (Miroku) single shot High Wall in .38-55. This is the style of rest that I'm adding:


The inletting went really well; that was needed as the radius on the base didn't match the radius on the High Wall's forearm. The first hole to drill & tap went well too, as I just enlarged the original rear screw hole from the forearm that fits into the hidden hanger. But then I hit a major snag when the 2nd new hole (for the front of the rest's base) that I was to D&T to 10-32 got buggered up when the dang tap broke off! I had done a slow and careful job with the tap for the 1st hole, and for 99% of the job on the 2nd hole, but I guess I got a little greedy to get just "one more 1/2 turn" and -- SNAP!!!

And now...

* There's was not enough tap left above the surface of the forearm hanger to grab with pliers...

* After soaking with Kroil, I can't get the tap to turn by hitting it counter-clockwise with a punch...

* I can't get a step-drill or any other drill to touch the surface of the tap, even though I have a drill press and managed to file the broken tap flat and then use a sharp carbide punch to make a centered dimple for the drills to start without any wandering...

So my attempts to save $100 and more for a gunsmith to D&T the 2 holes and do the inletting in the wood, plus to have the satisfaction of doing it by myself, is all for naught now...

Any ideas from the forum on ways to remove a broken tap???

Thanks!

Old No7

[Chris83716]

Left hand drill bit, a bunch more kroil, and slow speed with steady preasure.

A prayer or two wouldn't hurt either.

Chris

[williamranks]

You can buy these individually.

http://www.waltontools.com/products/ext ... c-hand.htm

[pwl44m]

Impact Driver to get it started then Ur going to have to grind and file a screwdriver to straddle the tap. It's going to be tedious work but U can do it.
Perry

[Sixgun]

'Ole #7'
I sure aint no machinist but........I guess I can be called a redneck tinkerer.

Yes, I have removed more than one broken tap and I have since learned how to use a tap so I don't break anymore.

Make sure the hole is drilled the width of the shank.

Always use cutting oil

When turning the tap, go back and forth slowly and frequently unscrew it and blow out the cuttings.

If you break it, you have already done the obvious. Get yourself a pair of spring clip pliers. These are the kind that have small tips and work in the reverse of regular pliers. That part really don't matter.
Put the tips of the pliers in the flutes and turn that baby out.



Lacking spring clip pliers, get two steel rods of the size that will fit down in the flutes. These may measure only 1/16 of an inch. Put them down the flutes and get a pair of regular pliers, hold the rods real tight and turn counter clockwise, assuming you are using a right hand tap.

You can also get a Dremel tool with a very small cutting wheel and grind yourself a screwdriver slot.


Now, after you removed the junk, get yourself a double shot of Jack Daniels!-------Sixgun

[Catshooter]

Good advice above.

If none of it works, there are two sure fire methods.

A solid carbide, center cutting end mill will cut that tap like it's butter. Both the part and the end mill must be mounted solidly. Very much wiggle will result in a broken end mill. And it could be broken down inside.

Take it to a machine shop that knows Electric Discharge Machining.

A lot of normal tap removal techniques work well will larger taps. But a #10 is pretty small cross section of steel that is as hard as can be and with 32 threads per inch there can be a lot of friction and torque to overcome. You normally just don't have the surface area to do it.

Good luck.


Cat

[pdentrem]

If you have a Dremel or equivalent, use a diamond burr with light oil or water to lube and cool the burr. Go down the center and grind it out. You can usually get a set of 30 for about $10-40 depending of the quality.

The carbide idea is good, also you can use a broken carbide tool and grind a pyramid point (not a round point) and spin at high rpm and cut it out.
Pierre

[AJMD429]

Wow - never knew they made those - http://www.waltontools.com/products/ext ... c-hand.htm - could come in VERY handy at times...

[M. M. Wright]

Since you're on something that really matters get someone to EDM it for you. EDM was originated just to remove broken taps so it really works good. Try the tap extractor first. In your case I think it'll probably work.

[Model 52B]

Just adding to six gun's advice, but buying and using a set of numbered drill bits along with a chart showing the proper bit size for the hole you're tapping is one of the best ways to start going about not breaking a tap.

The right size hole along with lots of cutting oil and backing out and cleaning the tap frequently will save you lots of heartache, especially with small holes and high thread pitch counts.

I also recommend the walton finger tool/tap extractor as if you are not careful drilling and machining operations can make the situation a lot worse if you screw it up. And at the end of the day you still want a properly drilled and tapped hole not one that's been boogered removing the tap. If you can't get it with the Walton tap extractor then take it to someone who has the EDM expertise to remove it.

[Tycer]

I'll add that if you use carbide taps, you can shatter them with a sharp center punch. CARBON not carbide.

[williamranks]

Wow - never knew they made those - http://www.waltontools.com/products/ext ... c-hand.htm - could come in VERY handy at times...

He might even be able to borrow one at the local machine shop or have them do it for him.

[Chuck 100 yd]

EDM is the very best way to remove a broken tap.

Don`t use high speed steel taps for gun work in the first place. Use carbon steel taps, they can be smacked with a punch and broken to remove.

[Sixgun]

I'm curious and always want to learn. What is electric discharge thingy?------6

[Malamute]

Electrical discharge machining. It electrically removes metal. Another reference point may be, it's what the original Mag-na-port system was done with, and probably still is. It eats a perfectly clean hole out to form the porting.

[Sixgun]

Electrical discharge machining. It electrically removes metal. Another reference point may be, it's what the original Mag-na-port system was done with, and probably still is. It eats a perfectly clean hole out to form the porting.

Thanks Malamute. I sent a 29 'Smith to MagNaPort back around 1975 and what a difference it made.

Learn something new everyday-------6

[Rusty]

OK so what's No 7 gonna do?

[jeepnik]

You can buy these individually.

http://www.waltontools.com/products/ext ... c-hand.htm

Man I love this forum. I haven't broke a tap in some time, but the times I have it sure would have been nice to know about these. We've got one heck of a knowledge base around here. Thanks for the heads up.

[Old No7]

OK so what's No 7 gonna do?

Thanks to all for the above ideas!

I have tried more Kroil and 2 pieces of wire (could not get a 3rd one in) grabbed with pliers, but no luck yet...

As it turns out, the forearm hanger is now loose and the only way to tighten it is to disassemble the 1885's action. I'm now ordering a set of slave pins (with detailed instructions) on how to do that right -- and get it back together again -- so it may be awhile before I have an update for you.

And once I get the hanger out, I'll have my brother-in-law's machine shop either remove the tap by some other method noted above, or we'll EDM it out. But I'm sure he can do it.

Stay tuned for a new post with the outcome on the tap, with pictures of the High Wall with Palm Rest -- but be patient, it may take me a few weeks.

Tight groups.

Old No7

[Model 52B]

Electrical discharge machining. It electrically removes metal. Another reference point may be, it's what the original Mag-na-port system was done with, and probably still is. It eats a perfectly clean hole out to form the porting.

It's precise to .0001" - compared to a laser or a water jet at .001", or plasma cutting at .010". 1/10,000 of an inch is nothing to sneeze at. There is also no slag formation (like a water jet) and thats handy working in a small hole, and there is also no stream lag, something that's also vital working in a hole.

The downside is that EDM equipment starts around 100K, about twice what an entry level water jet system would cost.

[cas]

EDM can also be used for some super clean and precise chambering work, though its not cheap compared to traditional reamer cut chambers. I don't know if anyone's doing it. Mike S. from OTO was making contender/encore barrels that way which are extremely well thought of, but he got such a back log that he stopped taking on work.

[Catshooter]

Bought a pretty decent supply of those Walton tap extractors. Nicely made, quality unit.

Every time I used one I broke it off. Never did have one pull out any part of a tap. I even read and followed the instructions. Too bad too as I really liked them & their concept.


Cat

[Old No7]

Thanks for all for the tips and ideas above, but I can now report...

I got it fixed!!!

I sent it down to my BIL's machine shop -- after getting the disassembly kit and getting the High Wall apart, to remove the forearm hanger from the barreled action -- and he was able to cut it out with a high-speed carbide cutter.

He did say the steel Miroku used was "really tough" and he wasn't surprised I had trouble with the tap; so he used the shop equipment to clean-up the threads and I've now got the High Wall going back together.

I will post pic of the completed Palm Rest later.

Old No7

[Sixgun]

Good 'ole #7,
Great to hear that. May I remind you that don't let his deter you from future endeavors. The only way we learn is from our mistakes.

You should have seen the look on my face when I snapped a mainspring on my buddies like new Remington 1859 factory cartridge conversion handgun. This was a 5k gun and my bud say's, don't worry 'bout it, just fix it.----6