1937 American Rifleman article with praise for the 45-75

[coyote nose]

Love reading old gun mags. June 1937 has an article titled "An Old Timer Speaks" where this fella (R.C. Ward) tells how he was in Montana when he was 15 (but doesn't give the year, I am guessing maybe late 1880's or early 1890's from other references in the article) and how they went hunting every fall for their winter meat supply. He used a "...big 45-75 Winchester repeater", obviously the 1876 tho he does not mention the model. He got 6 deer in 2 days
"...and each deer dropped in its tracks when hit. After this hunting trip I named this rifle 'Sudden Death' for it surely was that. Since those days I have used almost every type of rifle and bullet on big game."
He then goes on and tells experiences with other cartridges, starting with "... like all other hunters I thought I must have a high powered rifle, and so bought the latest thing out-the .30-30 Winchester. It was a beautiful little gun, and with it I thought I had the world by the tail on a downhill pull. The first deer I shot with it went over the hill as if I had missed." He tracks the deer and finds it dead but adds "...the exit hole of the .30-30 bullet was twice as large as that of the .45-75. Why then the slow death?" Throughout the article he asks the question "Why?"
He tries out the .25 Neidner, the .22 Hipower, 30-06, and talks about the 45-90 using 300 grain soft point at 1960 fps: "I found this to be a wonderful big game rifle, although it was laughed at by many .30-06 men."
He ends the article by talking about a deer he shot using the .30-06 where he put two 150 grain bullets behind the shoulder, and the deer ran a little before collapsing. "The two bullets had gone in the same hole but exited about six inches apart. Both bullets had struck the heart, yet this buck stayed on his feet until dead. That old .45-75 did not perform this way. Why?"
Thought some fellow levergunners would find this interesting.

[shawn_c992001]

Just goes to show you the "Whiz bang magnum hoopla" has been around for awhile. Just as some people are finding out now the old timers had it right. A big slow bullet will kill just as dead as a small fast one ever will.

A big (30 caliber and above) bullet traveling under 2000 fps will drop game in it's tracks without making you ever wish you had another gun or wondering if you have enough gun.

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I don't know, I always take this sort of reading with a grain of salt. I have killed a lot of deer, and used about everything. If I have learned anything, it's that unless you hit the nervous system, (spine, brain, or close to it) there is no guarantee as to when the animal will drop, regardless of the round used, although some seem to kill a little quicker, but there is always exceptions to the rule, that keep me scratching my head.

If you take a lung shot or heart shot, the animal may run, no matter what is used. It's dead on it's feet, but takes little while to use up the oxygen in it's brain.

Headshots, neckshots if the spin is hit, or close, high shoulder shots, spine shots, will usually drop a deer in it's tracks. Lungshot often will not.

I like the 45/70 with 300gr hollowpoints at 150yds or less it works pretty good for deer, and the 444 marlin with 240 factory loads was a good killer on deer. But so does a .308 winchester with 180gr silvertips. One of my favorites is a .350 Remington mag with 200gr roundnoses. And I shot a deer with the .348 Win with 200gr flatnoses this last year, and I would say it preformed about like my .350 mag with the 200gr roundnoses.

I have killed several deer with the .270 win, It did the job, but I was never impressed with it dropping ability, on lung shots, using 130gr bullets. I always felt the .308 with 180gr silvertips hit the deer harder, based on the reactions I observed from the deer.

Nowdays, I usually pull into the shoulder with whatever round I use, as deer don't seem to go as far as with a lungshot, however, I never really had a lung shot require a long tracking job, but they often go 50 to 100yds before falling down. I even once shot a doe with a .375 HH mag using 235gr speers at almost 2900 fps, right through the lungs and it ran over a hundred yards and fell in the bottom of a draw. I thought I had missed for a minute.

[Lastmohecken]

I am sure that the 1886 in 45/75 was a consistantly good killer, and would have been my first choice at the time it came out, if I could have afforded it. TR liked it and wrote about it.

[Comal Forge]

I like the 45-70 and it is my first choice for all large game but I've had a couple of deer over the years that were shot and did not fall down dead immediately. One was a large doe shot from about 30 yds where the neck joins the torso but the bullet just missed the spine. The doe barely moved when I shot and simply kept walking - in fact, I thought I'd missed. The second shot went within a inch of the first one and broke her neck so down she went in a pile. I was shooting large meplat, 455 gr hardcast bullets that simply punched right through and kept going. The entry and exit holes were both caliber sized with little meat damage.

The second deer was a good sized buck that I hit a little too far back to clip the vitals and again, the bullet missed bones so the deer jumped a fence and walked about 30 feet before laying down on the ground. It took me several minutes to get close and he was still sitting up looking around but not interested in running. A second shot through the neck finished him also. This was using a 300 gr Sierra over a healthy charge of 3031.

Nothing kills immediately 100% of the time (except maybe a 105 shell... ) but the old cartridges will still do a good job.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Where is it that one happens upon a 1937 issue of American Rifleman anyway? Is there some secret gun library that I wasn't given the secret key to somewhere?

[coyote nose]

Picked them up at a gunshow. Folks on ebay want WAY too much for them so i just wait until i see a batch then make an offer.

[Hobie]

Can you scan that article?

[Wes]

I piled up quite a few animals with the 45-70 here on the ranch. 300 grain hollow points at a muzzle vel of 2100fps plus kill deer with a vengeance. The bigger harder bullets seem to just punch through and the deer travel a little ways before they fall.
Put the jacketed 350 and up bullets through elk and moose and they work better than they do on deer. I'm not saying that I am a great authority but I've seen a bunch of deer, elk and moose shot with this cartridge and various bullet weights.