Lee Loader 30-30

Whit Spurzon · Post by **Whit Spurzon** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:26 pm

Out of curiosity I picked up a Lee Loader in 30-30. I was impressed by the innovation and simplicity. As an experiment I loaded a batch to compare with a load that I commonly use on my single stage press. It took me a while but once you get the technique and develop a rhythm it goes pretty well.

For this experiment I used the scoop supplied with the kit for the powder, I weighed the charges but didn't trickle to make the uniform. Most charges were within .6 of a grain but my extreme spread gave me a full grain difference.

It felt a little odd seating a bullet in a charged case with a hammer but I was impressed how consistent I was able to keep the OAL.

I wondered about the crimp but pressing the cartridge down hard on the bench on the bullet tip didn't shorten them.

At the range as I expected the difference in the charges did show up over the chronograph. The using IMR 3031 with the supplied scoop the high was 1915 fps and the low 1796 fps. The average for the string was 1851 with a standard deviation of 66.18.

For comparison, my-go to 150gr Remington JSP / IMR 3031 load is 29 grains and it averaged 2073 fps, with a standard deviation of 26.

The accuracy was actually pretty good, producing groups about 25% bigger than my go-to load. It also printed an inch lower at 50 yards.

This was my first experience with the Lee Loader and I must admit for less than $20 it worked pretty well. For a guy starting out it or on a tight budget it could produce some decent quality ammo inexpensively. If care was taken to produce more consistent charges by weighing them I would predict an improvement in already pretty good performance.

I will test weighed charges in the future as well as trying the Lee Loader with Cast Bullets. Stay tuned.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:41 pm

Whit, Welcome to the Forum. Interesting report. I've owned a Lee Loader in ,30-30 for about 35 years, but have never used it. Your experience confirmed my suspicions and what I was told AFTER I bought it!

Levergun · Post by **Levergun** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:51 am

I responded to this post over on Marlin Owners!

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:17 am

Great first post!
I think the Lee Loader is something everybody should have in their bug-out kit. No press, no measure, and oh-so portable.
Think I'll get one!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:35 am

I love Lee Loaders. You might try looking over on castbullet.com and see some of Junior's writings on them.

You might want to try and vary your method of loading the dipper some. I pour my 3031 into a Corel coffee cup that has a round bottom. Once through with the dipper and tap it twice with my index finger to settle and level the powder. The idea is to be consistent.

oldmax · Post by **oldmax** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:50 am

Started with a lee loader, (35 rem ) I did buy a scale....and weighed each charge.

The rounds were the best I have ever loaded !!!!!
I have never been able to duplicate the accuracy with a press.....

jschance · Post by **jschance** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:58 am

It's what I started reloading with, oh those so many years ago.

I had bought a Savage 340 in .222 to hunt groundhogs with, and was distressed at the cost of factory ammo. One day, on a trip to the gunshop to pick up another box of ammo (I bought 'em 20 rounds at a time back then, being a poor college student) I got talking to the clerk and he showed me a Lee Loader kit, used, that they were asking something like $6.00 for. I bought it and a box of bullets and a can of 3031 when he offered to toss in a partial flat of primers (I think they might have come in with the Lee loader. I went home, and sitting at my parent's kitchen table, reloaded my first round. I soon had reloaded two or three boxes of ammo and felt like a king with all that ammo at my disposal. I soon found the siren call of reloading, the fact that you can actually afford to shoot if you reload, and I haven't looked back ever since.

I do think the Lee Hand press is another solution to the reload anywhere problem, and used one of those to reload .38's in my dorm room in college.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:38 am

Whit,

Welcome to the forum.

I started my reloading with the Lee Loaders. I had one in .303 Brit, and 30-30 Win. Later I got one in .45 Colt.

I retired them about the mid 70s and later sold the .303 set. They work, yes, but they are a royal pain in the @$$ to use. Pounding on them to do each and every step got on my nerves REAL FAST.

But I leaned on them, and actually did produce good ammo.

THere is a much better system though, and that's the Lee Hand Press or the Lyman version. Much better than beating the hell out things with a hammer.

Joe

gcs · Post by **gcs** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:39 am

Did you have any problems with the cartridges chambering?

The kit neck sizes only and some of my brass will chamber, and some won't without more pressure then I care to apply.

This IS with brass fired in the same gun.

Whit Spurzon · Post by **Whit Spurzon** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:06 am

No problems chambering. The brass was from another rifle of the same make and model, Marlin 336

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:11 am

IIRC one of the top bench-rest shooters in the world once loaded all his ammo exclusively on a Lee Loader.

I have one for every caliber I own... and a couple I don't. (The only exception was .40 S&W... but loading for a crunchenticker is a PITA...)

IMO they are IDEAL for:

Learners,

Working up loads at the range (with a good scale),

Bug Out/Travel Bags, (Take one to Africa and reload there...)

Precision Reloading.

Peter M. Eick · Post by **Peter M. Eick** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:30 am

The key to the powder charge weight is to push the bottom of the scoop into the powder at an angle and let the powder come over the top to flood into the scoop. Then strike off any excess with a card and you will reduce the variation in powder charges.

I had one for 30/30 for years and it worked will. I still have my 38 special one I started with now over 30 years ago.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:53 am

gcs wrote:Did you have any problems with the cartridges chambering?

The kit neck sizes only and some of my brass will chamber, and some won't without more pressure then I care to apply.

This IS with brass fired in the same gun.

Yes I did. Both with rounds fired in the same rifle or other rifles. That is the second reason I quit the Lee Loader and went to a real reloading press.

Joe

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:05 am

homefront wrote:Great first post!
I think the Lee Loader is something everybody should have in their bug-out kit. No press, no measure, and oh-so portable.
Think I'll get one!

Has anyone here ever used one of those nutcracker style hand reloaders (Lyman I think) I always thought they would be handy for bugout type use, never been able to locate one to buy though

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:16 am

big bear wrote:
homefront wrote:Great first post!
I think the Lee Loader is something everybody should have in their bug-out kit. No press, no measure, and oh-so portable.
Think I'll get one!
Has anyone here ever used one of those nutcracker style hand reloaders (Lyman I think) I always thought they would be handy for bugout type use, never been able to locate one to buy though

Yep. I have one, (LEE Hand Press) and they are handy enough, I guess.

My problem with them is that they are really lousy for "one at a time" load development because you have to change dies out between squeezes.

OTOH they are great for sizing - both bullets and cases - and some prefer to prime with them.

http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/bro ... ress1.html

Scroll down to the bottom. $35.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:32 am

big bear wrote:
homefront wrote:Great first post!
I think the Lee Loader is something everybody should have in their bug-out kit. No press, no measure, and oh-so portable.
Think I'll get one!
Has anyone here ever used one of those nutcracker style hand reloaders (Lyman I think) I always thought they would be handy for bugout type use, never been able to locate one to buy though

As with a lot of other things they have become very collectible; with prices reflecting the same!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:35 am

OI,
I think what Big Bear is talking about is the old Lyman 310 tong tool. I tried one a long time ago and I wasn't very pleased with it.

The dies are replaceable and they are not the standard 7/8X14 like everybody in the world uses. They are smaller. I tried loading .357 Mag cases in it and the case was too long to go into the die without cocking over to one side. I ended up breaking off a piece of the little arm that pulls the case back out of the die that way.
One thing that the tong tool was really great for was for priming cases. It had a better feel to it than any other priming tool I've ever used. you could feel as well as see exactly what was going on.
IIRC the old Buffler hunters used tong tools to load their .45-70's and such with.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:38 pm

I used a Lee loader when I first started loading way back in the 1900's. I recall that the problems I had with rounds chambering in the same gun was when I crimped too much and the case bulged out slightly below the crimp.

I've used the Lyman 310 tools, and like them. They have their limitations also, but are a pretty good tool. You could also get full length shell resizers to go along with the 310 tools. They were a tap-in die like the Lee tool, but full length sized. I like keeping a Lyman 310 around while travelling. I throw the full length size die for the bench press in the gear also, to at least have the die I need. I can often find a freind that will let me use their bench press to resize if needed.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:45 pm

Rusty wrote:I love Lee Loaders. You might try looking over on castbullet.com and see some of Junior's writings on them.

You might want to try and vary your method of loading the dipper some. I pour my 3031 into a Corel coffee cup that has a round bottom. Once through with the dipper and tap it twice with my index finger to settle and level the powder. The idea is to be consistent.

This is somewhat similar to the method taught to me by Malamute a few years ago.

His method is to have a large cup and keep it full. Run the dipper in bottom first and let the powder flow into it so as not to compress the powder any more than it takes to lift the dipper back out, shake ever so slightly a couple times to knock off the extra. I think your tapping may actually make it settle which may not be as accurate as the Malamute method. I say this because in my 45-70 and 480Ruger, these loads had an es of 10fps. No joke. Try that with a scale. I now load my plinker load for the 45-70 exclusively with the dippers.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:25 pm

I'm planning on bringing mine (.45-70 LeeLoader) out to the Michiana Levergun Shoot on the 30th.

Somthing else to play with.

J35 · Post by **J35** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:09 pm

Like a lot of folks , I started reloading with a Lee loader in .308 win.

Taught myself to reload when I was 12 with the aid of a Hornady load book.

Killed my first, Javelina, Coues deer, Desert Mule deer, and Elk with ammo loaded with the Lee loader.

Still have the loader but traded the rifle many years ago.

I have a few sets of the Lyman 310 dies and tong tool's.

One set came with a Universal de capping die after using it a few times I went ahead and scrounged up shell adapter's for everything I reload for and de cap all my brass right in the trash can, sure saves a lot of mess around the press and bench.

I found I could lap and polish the 310 size dies pretty easy, this accomplishes two things it work's the brass at a bare minimum and reduce's the manual effort by two thirds .

good shooting -

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:40 pm

I also like the Lee loaders, although I use a RCBS single stage and a Dillon RL550.

I use them most for 'just loading a few rounds' to try out a new load; then if I like it I can set up a press to make LOTS. I never tried it 'at the range' but that really seems sensible. Of course it only neck sizes, but at that point, you are likely not needing the full length resize.

I used a Lee 'Precision' model (micrometer seating, inside neck reamer) which was an expanded version of the little Lee kit to load sub-MOA 6mm Rem rounds for years. Someone else makes them now I think.

The Lyman 310 I've only got in 32-20, and I don't like it as much as the Lee, but I haven't used it that much, either. If I recall, it seemed to scuff up the head of the case due to the way the pressure point shifts, although that is really only a cosmetic thing and might be a little grease could fix.

The Hand Press I like best to de-prime with; lots of leverage, fast, and I can sit on the floor in the livingroom, or outside over a trash can, and use it for depriming. I did drill a hole in the side to let the dead primers out so they don't build up and jam it.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:20 am

The most important thing to remember when using the Lee Dippers is to be consistent in the way you use them.

If you read Junior's article at castbullet.com he brings up something that I hadn't thought of before. Consistent by volume and consistent by weight can be two different things. Weight can actually change depending on humidity. Volume always stays the same.

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:42 am

Wanted to ask a question of those of you with experience with the Lee Loader. I bought one to fool around loading a buddy's .30-06 cause I hate seeing that nice brass go to waste. But it's a Remington pump rifle and I've heard that the Loader isn't to be used with leverguns and pumpguns. And yet it sounds like some of y'all haven't hit too many snags doing so?

The little kits always just seemed so neat and handy. I was looking forward to messing with one.

I use a Lee handpress for resizing and depriming revolver brass on the front porch in nice weather.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:43 am

Welcome to the fire!

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:46 am

Dog wrote:Wanted to ask a question of those of you with experience with the Lee Loader. I bought one to fool around loading a buddy's .30-06 cause I hate seeing that nice brass go to waste. But it's a Remington pump rifle and I've heard that the Loader isn't to be used with leverguns and pumpguns. And yet it sounds like some of y'all haven't hit too many snags doing so?

The little kits always just seemed so neat and handy. I was looking forward to messing with one.

I use a Lee handpress for resizing and depriming revolver brass on the front porch in nice weather.

Hey Dog, if the LL wasn't made for use reloading for leverguns, why did they make it in 30-30?

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:16 am

Some guns want to be full length sized. If the round is higher pressure, it may need to be full length sized, but most of the common lever gun rounds aren't very high pressure. I loaded 30-30's with a Lee Loader for years and it was fine.

Frank, it's about marketing. It doesn't have to be useful to be marketable.

I think the Lee loaders are plenty useful, but,....look at the new generation of short fat magnum rifle rounds. Who would have guessed that once they figured out the short fat thing, that all the old "normal" rounds would be rendered harmless to all game animals, and would suddenly become so inaccurate as to be completely useles for any practical purpose?

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:07 am

Here's a link about using the LEE Hand Press. You can buy a LEE Hand Press from USA Midway for right at $20.00.

http://www.castbullet.com/reload/table.htm

Here's a link to loading using a Classic LEE Loader. Best Classic LEE Loader article I've ever seen/read.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_no ... tes.htm/51

Dog · Post by **Dog** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:08 am

"Hey Dog, if the LL wasn't made for use reloading for leverguns, why did they make it in 30-30?"

Thompson/Contenders? And Savage/Stevens used to make a sweet little bolt action .30-30. I'd have several if they made it in a lefty. Single shots. Although the .30-30 is most associated with the levergun platform, I submit it works better than credited for a number of purposes.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:20 am

Dog wrote:"Hey Dog, if the LL wasn't made for use reloading for leverguns, why did they make it in 30-30?"

Thompson/Contenders? And Savage/Stevens used to make a sweet little bolt action .30-30. I'd have several if they made it in a lefty. Single shots. Although the .30-30 is most associated with the levergun platform, I submit it works better than credited for a number of purposes.

I never accept exceptions to the rule as valid to a greater argument.

30-30 was invented for and chambered first and overwhelmingly predominant in levers.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:24 am

Here's another link from Beartooth Bullets that should be of interest and is in line with this thread.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_no ... otes.htm/8

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:33 pm

You'll also notice that the loads used in a Lee Loader are no where near maximum pressure loads either. I think that would tend to have something to do with it as well.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:24 pm

I just found my old Lee reloading kit for .357 Mag. I bought it for my brand new Security Six around 1980 and it was my first taste of reloading. I probably loaded around 500 or so rounds before I got a Rock Crusher.
Glad I was able to find it, can even fit in the bug out bag. Price tag on it is $14.98

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:21 pm

Rusty wrote:You'll also notice that the loads used in a Lee Loader are no where near maximum pressure loads either. I think that would tend to have something to do with it as well.

You can use multiple dippers to increase your load. Say an initial dipper at 37CC and then a second dipper at 5CC to increase the load. The amount of powder in the case is not restricted simply because you are using a LEE Classic Reloader.

Go to the Lee website and there is a neat chart showing gr equivalents to CCs.