Which falling block?

[awp101]

OK, need to do some thinking and thought sorting so I figured I'd bounce it off you guys (and gals!) for some opinions and info. And besides, I need a break from researching for my final class speech.

After careful consideration and a realistic look at priorities, etc I'm probably going to part with a couple of firearms I'm ho-hum over to pick up one final "must have" rifle. I'm almost certain it'll be one of the following falling blocks (nothing is certain until I plunk the cash down and bring something home ): 1859/1863 style Sharps, 1874 style Sharps or Ruger No1.

It will primarily be a range gun, maybe some BPCR type silhouette shooting. I prefer a 22-24" carbine barrel but could go for a 26" if it "feels" right. Budget is under $1000 (more like $700-900 which means Italian for the Sharps but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO and IME).

I understand my choice of caliber will dictate the final rifle to some extent, so here's what I'm considering as I already have factory ammo and/or components on hand:
.22 Hornet
.257 Roberts
.45-70

The 1859/63 is paper cartridge only of course but that holds it's own appeal to me. AFAIK the Ruger No1 or No3 can be had in any of those calibers but in the Sharps it'd be .45-70 unless I could find a Little Sharps in the Hornet and a .257 Sharps would be a custom only deal (and out of the price range).

Here's my train of thought at the moment:
I already have a .45-70 (Trapdoor) and I have no desire to hot rod the .45-70 anyway. A quick look at the usual online places hasn't turned up a .257 or .22H Ruger yet (just started looking though) but I don't know what the going rate for either is right now. A Hornet barrel can be had for my Handi-Rifle reasonably or I can have one of the Martini Cadets reworked for the Hornet at a later date.

That leaves the 1859/63 in the lead as I post this but I'm open to opinions and info in case there's something I've overlooked in my reasoning.

Thanks!

[Pete44ru]

.257 ?

FWIW, there's 4 hours to go, with no bids & no reserve, on this 1970's .25-06 Browning B78 High Wall w/26" tapered octagon bbl & with a reasonable $1K start bid.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =338491989


.

[Griff]

Don't take this the wrong way... but you need to settle on what use you're planning for this final "must have" rifle. BPCRS requires a couple of things... 1 - a cartridge rifle, so the 1858/63 Sharps is out... 2- said cartridge must be a "buffalo" cartridge, so that leaves out cartrdiges like the 22Hornet or .257 Roberts. Lastly, the Ruger #1 isn't legal for BPCRS either.

All that said, don't count out the Winchester 1885 Hi-Wall. It doesn't seem to quite have the "bling" that a Sharp's does, but it has a loyal, ardent following. And, with the Browning and Winchester re-issues, it's available in a number of calibers that might seem a bit outrageous to the traditionally minded... but has no less utility for purpose because of it.

[3leggedturtle]

I saw Ruger #1 stainless and the gray or green laminate stocks (CRS) in .257 Roberts. If I didn't have my Savage 99 in 250 Savage. I'd have bought it in a heart beat. It was NIB for $799. To my thinking, Hornet is too small for such a big rifle, and the 45/70 aint flat enough for varmints. 257 all the way.

[awp101]

FWIW, there's 4 hours to go, with no bids & no reserve, on this 1970's .25-06 Browning B78 High Wall w/26" tapered octagon bbl & with a reasonable $1K start bid.

I like the rifle but the caliber is a strike against it. Never got into the .25-06...

but you need to settle on what use you're planning for this final "must have" rifle.

99.9% of the time it'll just be punching paper and making noise.

BPCRS requires a couple of things... 1 - a cartridge rifle, so the 1858/63 Sharps is out... 2- said cartridge must be a "buffalo" cartridge, so that leaves out cartrdiges like the 22Hornet or .257 Roberts. Lastly, the Ruger #1 isn't legal for BPCRS either.

That's why I phrased it as BPCR "type" shooting. I'm pretty sure our club has a BPCR match but if it's like the other matches we have, you can shoot it for fun (no official scoring or place reported to the regional/national groups) without having to conform "exactly" to the rules as long as it's within the spirit of the game. It's used as a way to give someone who's not sure if they want to dive in whole hog a chance to try it out. So the Ruger would probably be OK for the infrequent times I'd go shoot with those guys but there is a good chance the Hornet and Bob would be disallowed anyway to avoid undue wear on the targets.

All that said, don't count out the Winchester 1885 Hi-Wall. It doesn't seem to quite have the "bling" that a Sharp's does, but it has a loyal, ardent following. And, with the Browning and Winchester re-issues, it's available in a number of calibers that might seem a bit outrageous to the traditionally minded... but has no less utility for purpose because of it.

Whew, the ones I saw were spendy but I'll keep an eye out and see what turns up.

Don't take this the wrong way...

Nope, I asked for info and opinions. Nobody said I had to like the answers provided (which I appreciate because I always try learn something new) or that everyone had to agree with me ('tho it sure would make my life easier some days.... ).

Thanks guys, keep it coming!

[Don McDowell]

Ok here's something plumb off the wall, but might be something not every kid on the block might have.
Winchester 1885 in 375 H&H the cartridge works well for cast bullets, is a real hoot when you load that big ol case with 92 grs of 3f, and the 375 bore diameter along with the easy adaptation of a tang sight make it perfectly legal for the "buffalo gong" matches. Plus they are drilled and tapped for modern scope if that's what floats yer boat.
And if you ever got a wild hair to go to Africa...

[M. M. Wright]

IIRC Taylors and Co. imports a Uberti Hi-Wall in 45-70 that's in your price range. Had one that had beautiful case colors on the receiver and you could add a Malcomb scope and actually be competitive.

[BenT]

Two years ago I purchased a Winchester/japan high wall hunter in 45-70 and my friend got one in 38-55. His 38-55 was a dandy gun with a 22 inch barrel. We bought them on close out for $800. I would take a look at the 38-55.

[6pt-sika]

.257 ?

FWIW, there's 4 hours to go, with no bids & no reserve, on this 1970's .25-06 Browning B78 High Wall w/26" tapered octagon bbl & with a reasonable $1K start bid.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =338491989


.

I had a Browning B-78 octagon barrel in 25-06 !

Gun shot nicely with handloads .

[6pt-sika]

Two years ago I purchased a Winchester/japan high wall hunter in 45-70 and my friend got one in 38-55. His 38-55 was a dandy gun with a 22 inch barrel. We bought them on close out for $800. I would take a look at the 38-55.

I had one of the Jap Winchester 1885's in 270 WSM and while I am NOT an advocate of Japanese made Winchesters that gun was a shooter with handloads . My only complaint was the trigger . They way it was made you were unable to get it below I think 3 1/2 pounds .

[6pt-sika]

Here's my take on the whole single shot thing !

I like the Ruger #1's period and just about any cartridge I might add !

The Browning B-78 I like and again in any cartridge they chambered it for and yes the B-78 was made in Japan , but I still like it .

I am not as intrested in the Browning 1885 or the more recent B-78 . Incidently the Browning B-78's I like were made in the 1970's and early 1980's !

I like the Shiloh and C Sharps offerings in all they make ! Especially the new C Sharps offering in the Remington Hepburn .

I also like the CPA rendition of the old Stevens 44 1/2 .

The Pedersoli copies of the Rollingblock and the Sharps are good shooters or atleast all of those I have meesed with have been . I however am not an advocate of most products from Italy .

One that you don't hear mentioned very often is the fellow in New York statenamed Romano that makes a very nice copy of the old Maynard single shot . I've handled a few of his rifles and talked with the man in person and on the phone .

Bottom line !

I have Ruger #1's and like them , I want a CPA very much , I like the Shiloh and C Sharps and want one of their Hepburns . I also like the Romano Maynard and would like one of those .
If cash is an important part of the equation get a Ruger #1 out of the group I mention . If money is not a big part of the equation well then !

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

FWIW the Highwall is stronger than the sharps. The Ruger #1 is basically a Highwall with an internal hammer.

[awp101]

Once again, thanks for the thoughts and info guys!

I've given it more thought, done more reading and I think I have it narrowed down to 2 choices:
Half-Pint Sharps .45 LC 26” Octagonal


Or the
1874 Sharps Cavalry Carbine .45-70 22” Round Barrel


Both are over my initial budget but I can save a little longer and Father's Day is around the corner.

The .45 Colt wasn't on my initial list, but I still have brass and dies from a few years ago so it's not like I'd be starting from scratch there. I think a 26" barrel on a .45 Colt is a bit much but OTOH a 22" .45-70 is sure to be noticeable on BOTH ends...

Turns out the silhouette matches at my club are NRA Silhouette (and probably shot on the 100m range) so I'm not sure how either rifle plays into that.

AFA the 1859/63 style, they've got cool points galore IMO but I'm honest enough with myself to know it might be years before I get around to making my own paper cartridges for one.

After looking at the Uberti Hi-Wall, it may be stronger but I just can't say that it grabs me. And there's usually No1s at the local shows for decent prices. I'll just have to bide my time and pennies for one after the current nonsense runs it's course.

Additional thoughts or ideas?

[6pt-sika]

Once again, thanks for the thoughts and info guys!

I've given it more thought, done more reading and I think I have it narrowed down to 2 choices:
Half-Pint Sharps .45 LC 26” Octagonal


Or the
1874 Sharps Cavalry Carbine .45-70 22” Round Barrel


Both are over my initial budget but I can save a little longer and Father's Day is around the corner.

The .45 Colt wasn't on my initial list, but I still have brass and dies from a few years ago so it's not like I'd be starting from scratch there. I think a 26" barrel on a .45 Colt is a bit much but OTOH a 22" .45-70 is sure to be noticeable on BOTH ends...

Turns out the silhouette matches at my club are NRA Silhouette (and probably shot on the 100m range) so I'm not sure how either rifle plays into that.

AFA the 1859/63 style, they've got cool points galore IMO but I'm honest enough with myself to know it might be years before I get around to making my own paper cartridges for one.

After looking at the Uberti Hi-Wall, it may be stronger but I just can't say that it grabs me. And there's usually No1s at the local shows for decent prices. I'll just have to bide my time and pennies for one after the current nonsense runs it's course.

Additional thoughts or ideas?

Neither would be my choice !


BUT ........................................................... ,

I'm not the one thats going to be paying the bil

[jnyork]

AWP101, PM sent.

[3leggedturtle]

I handled one of the scaled down "sharps" in .44/40 CRS lately, but think it was a Charles Daly version. Felt good and came up to shoulder nicely. 45 Colt would be a shoot more for less proposition. You do already load for one don't you?

[Don McDowell]

If you're going to shoot NRA Sillouettes, the 45 colt is out. You can get one of those minisharps in 38-55, but that will ring a lot of the rams.
So that leaves the carbine, and that will probably pound you half to death by the time you get thru with a 40 round match plus the sighters.

[rbertalotto]

A few questions and comments:

Do you cast your own bullets? If "yes" you should consider a 38-55. Super accurate and a pleasure to shoot. A great "range" gun.
Less lead and powder than the 45-70

38-55 in the Lyman Ideal "mini" Sharps is a great rifle (also available in 22 Hornet)
The Uberti 1885 in 38-55 is also a fantastic rifle. I have both of these in 38-55 and a real joy to shoot.

Any Falling Block in 45-70 would be a good choice. 405g bullets with Unique powder is a great, accurate plinking load in any 45-70.

Ruger #1 rifles are extremely frustrating. I have seven of them in the "Varmint" configuration and 5 of them are not very accurate. The other two (220 Swift and 223) are reasonably accurate. I've owned four other Ruger #1 rifles over the years and none of them had acceptable accuracy no matter what modifications I applied. Beautiful rifles to look at. Fit and function are top notch, but Ruger simply has no idea how to make a barrel......Sorry!

The most accurate Falling Block type rifle I own is a 1970s vintage Pedersoli Rolling Block in 45-70 followed by the Lyman Ideal in 38-55 and then a 2000 vintage Pedersoli 1874 Sharps "Benchrest"........But I cast all my own bullets and they fit the bore perfectly. Before I cast my own I was buying lead bullets and accuracy was good, but not great. My experience is you must cast your own to really squeeze the accuracy out of these old cartridges.

[6pt-sika]

Ruger #1 rifles are extremely frustrating. I have seven of them in the "Varmint" configuration and 5 of them are not very accurate. The other two (220 Swift and 223) are reasonably accurate. I've owned four other Ruger #1 rifles over the years and none of them had acceptable accuracy no matter what modifications I applied. Beautiful rifles to look at. Fit and function are top notch, but Ruger simply has no idea how to make a barrel......Sorry!

Either I'm pretty d...a...m...n...e...d lucky OR I'm a h...e...l...l of a shot !

I have 18 of them now and none shoot bad !

The smallest three shot group I ever fired in my life was with a custom Ruger #1 , 3 shots at 100 yards in .054" after deducting the diameter of the bullet ain't bad at all .

My Ruger #1B 264 WIN MAG that I purchased new perhaps 4 years ago shoots the Berger 130 VLD Match Hunting bullet at 100 yards for 3 shots in about half an inch !

My Ruger #1V 220 Swift with the Nosler 50 grain BT keeps three in 1/2" at 100 yards !

The Ruger #1H's in 375 H&H MAG and 416 REM MAG keep three at 100 in about 1 1/2" or less and I expect if I used more then 7x and 4x they might get inside an inch !

My Ruger #1B 270 Weatherby with old stock Federal FACTORY ammo 130 grain Sierra's will keep 3 of those inside 3/4" at 100 yards .

My 1B Hornet will keep 5 of the Nosler 40 BT handload inside 1 1/2" at 100 yards and typically folks say Hornet's won't do so great . While that isn't benchrest accuracy by any means that isn't bad compared to the rest of the Hornets I've owned over the years .

The only negative thing I can say about the #1's are the darned triggers . Some are good and others don't come close . Adjustments on the newer ones are a moot point and Canjar has long been oughtta buisness . Keplinger supposedly makes a good set trigger but I've not plunked down the cabbage to try one "yet" .

Now granted you may have some lemons or what I prefer to think , you didn't find the correct bullet and powder !

Generally when a person makes a broad statement as you have and I quote "Ruger simply has no idea how to make a barrel" I take it as a personal thing to prove them WRONG !
Now my basis is almost 100% opposite of yours . But I don't know you and you don't know me . So I'll keep my beliefs on this matter and you can do the same !

[rbertalotto]

6pt-sika................

Run, don't walk and buy a lottery ticket! You are the luckiest guy on planet earth. You have ALL the Ruger #1 rifles known to shoot half inch groups. I've played with dozens of Ruger #1 rifles of all shapes and flavors over the years. I've written magazine articles on the subject and I've never ever seen a #1 shoot a 5 shot half inch group at 100 yds.

I'd pay real money to see 18 of them do even 1".............

Yup, you got great luck!

[Don McDowell]

I've never seen a #1 that wouldn't shoot an inch or less.
But then again I have a Winchester 1885 bpcr that shoots extremely well, and know of several that actually win matches.

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika................

Run, don't walk and buy a lottery ticket! You are the luckiest *** on planet earth. You have ALL the Ruger #1 rifles known to shoot half inch groups. I've played with dozens of Ruger #1 rifles of all shapes and flavors over the years. I've written magazine articles on the subject and I've never ever seen a #1 shoot a 5 shot half inch group at 100 yds.

I'd pay real money to see 18 of them do even 1".............

Yup, you got great luck!

I said I had 18 of them and I also said my pair of 1H's were 1 1/2" guns . So you already knew all 18 of them wouldn't shoot in an inch just based on those two as well as my Hornet that does 5 in about 1 1/2" .

I also said I was shooting 3 shot groups !

Seems like so many others you respond before you read or absorbed what you were reading !

Also seems to me if they shot so terribly you wouldn't have as many of them as you claim to have .

And as to me being the luckiest *** on the earth I would very much like you to say that to me face to face !
I don't appreciatte comments that include my mother in them. So if you'd like to take this to a more personal level I have no problem,my mother certainly wasn't a female canine as you have stated when you called me an *** !.

[rbertalotto]

6pt....I apologize for using that slang term. It was uncalled for. Won't happen again.

[6pt-sika]

6pt....I apologize for using that slang term. It was uncalled for. Won't happen again.

Apology noted and accepted !

[awp101]

45 Colt would be a shoot more for less proposition. You do already load for one don't you?

I have all the fixins except bullets. And a suitable launching platform.

If you're going to shoot NRA Sillouettes, the 45 colt is out. You can get one of those minisharps in 38-55, but that will ring a lot of the rams.
So that leaves the carbine, and that will probably pound you half to death by the time you get thru with a 40 round match plus the sighters.

Didn't know that about the .45 Colt, took extended shooting with the .45-70 into consideration. There's probably more than a few folks that wouldn't mind seeing me shoot two matches if that's the case. Given the less than 1% chance it'll see a silhouette match, that's another plus in the .45 Colt column.

Do you cast your own bullets? If "yes" you should consider a 38-55.

No and I seriously doubt I'll ever have the time and space to do it. Too many other irons in the fire. No pun intended...