Why the popularity of AR-15 rifle series?

cpy911 · Post by **cpy911** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:41 am

Hi all,
I am in my late 30's and most guys my age really like the AR-15 platform for shooting and of course, the black hole of accessorizing. These accessories include a whole massive market of doodads and nicknacks that you can buy and upgrade and modify an AR to your liking. It seems like the AR platform has become an every man's rifle, kind of like the 30-30 (or insert your favorite caliber) lever gun was.

Last time I was at the range, I had my 1956 vintage Model 94 30-30 setup to run some plinking loads with Trailboss and cast boolits. Of all the other shooters (about 10-12), every one of them had AR platform rifles of all configurations. I did see an AK and one other bolt gun. I was the lowly guy with a levergun.

My Dad handed me my grandpas 1940 vintage Winchester 94 in 30WCF when I was a teenager and said it is yours. Told me some history about it and how it was used by the family, and I was hooked on leverguns. I like the leverguns due to their balance and the look and feel of wood and steel. They are also complete utility for someone who appreciates simple robust tools to get the job done. Now, Plastic on a gun? Aluminum parts? To each is own. I am not even a hunter, just like the nostalgia of leverguns and having something "different" than the rest of the crowd. I do have an M-1 Garand for military style rifle, but it has wood and steel, the way I like it.

Since the AR-15 platform represents the most modern "tactical" rifle configuration, I guess that draws the "tactical" crowd in. But let's face it, what are we getting tactical for? For bad times, go read about what Ferfal, a guy in Argentina that survived societal breakdown says, "The survivalist IS NOT a soldier, even though you are a soldier or you once were the meanest mother on the battlefield, your home town is not a battlefield and it won’t be, even if the bad times. A LOT of water has to go under the bridge until the situation gets to a point where you can calmly walk down the street with a rifle on your shoulder. People, if you are interested in real world bad times situation and you want to prepare for the real deal, then understand that this isn’t black or white. You wake up one day and listen on the radio that the economy collapsed and that the stock market closed indefinitely. What do you do? You still have to go to the office/work/whatever. Kiss the wife good bye and walk to the office with your AR across your back, or across your chest, Israeli style, ready to shoot? You won’t get far. Someone will shoot you or throw you in jail, or in a mental institution."

He goes on to say get a handgun! That is what you can carry with you always, you are not a soldier and can't carry a rifle everywhere.

Whenever I have people shoot my Rossi 92 in .357/.38 they kind of don't think much of it until they run a magazine full down the tube and they are all smiles and wish they had one.

So, what draws people to AR -15's? Is it because they are Lego's for grown ups? I have nothing against them and glad people own them, they just don't appeal to me....

PS Thank goodness for CAS to keep leverguns alive!!!

Thoughts...?

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:55 am

Each firearm has its appeal. I like my AR for the ease of use and the quick change magazines. It is accurate, too. I like my leverguns for the ease of use, the reloading without having to move from my position, and the power level I can get. I like my Bolt guns (side levers) for the accuracy and power level. I have different things I can use them for, and can use all of them for hunting. I like the leverguns for the comfortable carry. In Africa, Chris Troskie borrowed my Marlin Guide Gun to back me up on the Zebra hunt. He liked the ease of carry and the power. I think he would like to have one if he could, but South Africa has some restrictive laws. There wasn't any need of backup, but he did seem to like the rifle.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:58 am

It's a matter of familiarity. You became familiar with a levergun at an rather early age. Most folks get their indoctrination in arms via the military, movies or family. A LOT of guys back from VN in the late '60s and early '70s were M-16 familiar. Ergo, as a civilian they felt comfortable around an AR-15. That familiarity got passed to the their children, now in their 30's & 40's. Movies of the 80's and 90's about the Viet Nam war featured the M-16. It became the "new levergun".

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:05 am

Oh, and don't sell the popularity of the levergun short.

From 1894 to 1982 Winchester made and sold approximately 5 million mdl 94 Winchesters. Then between 1982 and 2006 USRA sold another 2 million mdl 94AEs.

Winch = 56,818.181/yr
USRA = 86,956.522/yr

Not popular? Ok, maybe not on a per capita basis, but... just sayin'!

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:09 am

If I can find an 1886, I would sell my Guide Gun to buy it. I may have to do it anyway and just buy an 1886 from a dealer. I like the longer barrel. Now, my son likes leverguns more than the AR because I started him on a little Crickett .22, then a Henry .22 lever, then a Ruger 10/22. He does like the AR because it doesn't kick too much and is very accurate when he adjusts the stock length to fit him.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:46 am

cpy911 wrote:Thoughts...?

It's good you like leverguns since this is a levergun likin' website.

If you hang long enough I'm sure you'll meet the other guy who thinks nobody needs a "tactical" toy.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:56 am

Well CPY, are you gonna share any of the history your dad shared with you?

I got time...

I can wait. I love a good story.

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:47 am

Like Griff said, it's been the service rifle since the mid-sixties. 3 generations of americans have carried these. My leverguns are my favorite guns, but holding an ar is like visiting my hometown. A roots gun, so to speak.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:18 am

Same reason bolt actions took over the market post WW1. When a million men go to war with a bolt action, they come home familiar with a piece, and it stays nearby.

My dad used the M14, M16, M16A1 and M16A2 in combat, though he didn't end up firing the A2 (nobody to shoot at).

I carried the M16A2 and then mostly the M4 during my time in. I've had an AR platform rifle nearby, in my lap, in my safe or slung 10-20 hours a day for nearly a decade and have used the AR for over half my life (I'm 35). While I love bolt-actions (milsurps specifically) even more than leverguns and I appreciate all rifles of all types, I am more comfortable with an AR in my hands than any single other weapon except possibly a Lee-Enfield (my very first rifle) simply on the account that i've been carrying them and shooting them forever. Between civilian use, working for a manufacturer and the military i've probably got in excess of a 3/4 of a million rounds through ARs since the late 80s when i first started shooting them. My personal current piece has at least 8,000 or so just in the last few years.

They're infinitely configurable, light, handy, low recoil, powerful (enough) for the intended job, come in multiple calibers, can be used for target, hunting, defense without even changing anything on the rifle. My oh-stuff/home defense rifle shoots competitions and hunts coyotes and pigs in exactly the same configuration.

JB · Post by JB » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:51 am

I agree with pretty much what everyone else wrote. I've also found most AR's are more accurate than the levers.

wilko · Post by **wilko** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:31 am

MrMurphy wrote:Same reason bolt actions took over the market post WW1. When a million men go to war with a bolt action, they come home familiar with a piece, and it stays nearby.

My dad used the M14, M16, M16A1 and M16A2 in combat, though he didn't end up firing the A2 (nobody to shoot at).

I carried the M16A2 and then mostly the M4 during my time in. I've had an AR platform rifle nearby, in my lap, in my safe or slung 10-20 hours a day for nearly a decade and have used the AR for over half my life (I'm 35). While I love bolt-actions (milsurps specifically) even more than leverguns and I appreciate all rifles of all types, I am more comfortable with an AR in my hands than any single other weapon except possibly a Lee-Enfield (my very first rifle) simply on the account that i've been carrying them and shooting them forever. Between civilian use, working for a manufacturer and the military i've probably got in excess of a 3/4 of a million rounds through ARs since the late 80s when i first started shooting them. My personal current piece has at least 8,000 or so just in the last few years.

They're infinitely configurable, light, handy, low recoil, powerful (enough) for the intended job, come in multiple calibers, can be used for target, hunting, defense without even changing anything on the rifle. My oh-stuff/home defense rifle shoots competitions and hunts coyotes and pigs in exactly the same configuration.

Pretty much all of this.... at this moment it is more important then ever for all shooters to stand together as one againts Zero and his gungrabbers... Do not fall for the divide and conquer tactics.. we are all alike no matter what color our favorite rifle has !!!

2571 · Post by **2571** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:16 am

Two thoughts:

1. Why did Mossberg come out with a tactical levergun recently?

2. Saw an ad today for a guy selling a fixer-upper house for an AR. This is not one of my exaggerations - I can provide the link for anybody interested.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:50 am

cpy911 wrote: Thoughts...?

I like lever guns and wood and steel for pretty much the same reasons you do. But I think that with the "Legos" thing, you hit on a lot of it. The AR-15 has become a standard chassis from which to build something unique to the individual. It's very much like the 32 Ford or Chevy small block in that respect. You know that you have a basis from which to start, parts availability is nearly ubiquitous, and it's a good platform in the first place. Was the 32 Ford the best auto in 1932? Heck no, a Chevy or Buick was probably better, but that doesn't matter - it's the canvas from which we have collectively decided to paint because there's a benefit in the parts/supplies arena to having a standard from which to start. The Rem 700 action and the various clones of it is somewhat the same in the bolt gun world in that respect. Is a PC better than a Mac? Arguably NO, but it became the standard chassis for gamers and customizers because of the open standard and parts and accessories availability.

It doesn't hurt that the AR is an inherently accurate design! It's pretty easy to build a sub-MOA AR and as someone once said, accurate guns are more fun.

I love fine wood furniture and wood instruments. I love antiques too, both wood and brass and iron. But that doesn't mean I can't also love a carbon fiber Ferrari or an electric guitar or a handmade, finely machined and crafted modern telescope.

Cheers,
Oly

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:02 am

I was standing in Kenlees Gun Store in South Houston Texas in 1966 when they opened the box of the first AR I had ever seen, or anybody else in the store for that matter. I picked it up, shouldered it, dry fired it, and found it to be repulsive.

I never held or fired another until last year, when I shot a Bushmaster belonging to a nephew. I had my Garand with me at the time. I fired one 20 round mag through the AR and placed it on the bench. My curiosity was satisfied and I am done with them for life. They just hold no attraction to me.

But many folks have grown up with such things, been introduced to shooting with them and think highly of them. I support their right to own, shoot and enjoy these gizmos to their heart is content. But I still hold the same opinion I did in 1966.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:07 am

olyinaz wrote:
cpy911 wrote: Thoughts...?
I like lever guns and wood and steel for pretty much the same reasons you do. But I think that with the "Legos" thing, you hit on a lot of it. The AR-15 has become a standard chassis from which to build something unique to the individual. It's very much like the 32 Ford or Chevy small block in that respect. You know that you have a basis from which to start, parts availability is nearly ubiquitous, and it's a good platform in the first place. Was the 32 Ford the best auto in 1932? Heck no, a Chevy or Buick was probably better, but that doesn't matter - it's the canvas from which we have collectively decided to paint because there's a benefit in the parts/supplies arena to having a standard from which to start. The Rem 700 action and the various clones of it is somewhat the same in the bolt gun world in that respect. Is a PC better than a Mac? Arguably NO, but it became the standard chassis for gamers and customizers because of the open standard and parts and accessories availability.

It doesn't hurt that the AR is an inherently accurate design! It's pretty easy to build a sub-MOA AR and as someone once said, accurate guns are more fun.

I love fine wood furniture and wood instruments. I love antiques too, both wood and brass and iron. But that doesn't mean I can't also love a carbon fiber Ferrari or an electric guitar or a handmade, finely machined and crafted modern telescope.

Cheers,
Oly

All of the above... but I actually got rid of my M4gery because it was so accurate it was BORING.

I couldn't miss with a flinch.

Where's the fun in that? I like my hobbies to be challenging. Maybe not "flintlock smoothbore trade-gun" challenging, but I've never been one to define "challenging" as "thousanths of an inch spread"...

NavyDMO · Post by **NavyDMO** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:21 am

Agree, nothing magical about them, they are just good tools and make it easy for the non-practicing rifleman. My Marines and Sailors carry M4's out here all day long but some of us still make time to go down to where the scout snipers are holed up to see their toys. They have the Knight's Armament Stoner platform in .308 and the Ronny Barrett .50 BMG SASR but the bolt action 700 in it's M40A5 variation now is always the most impressive and a show stopper.

I think a lever gun is a great assault rifle, you just have to know how to use it. With an AR platform you just pull the trigger as you point in the general direction of the enemy, you have 30 tries per magazine of which you carry 6 or 7. And now that we are issued the ACOG you just put the tip of the red chevron on the chest and pull, the art of the rifleman is gone.

My 2 older boys love the M4 and are well versed with it because it is their main weapon in whatever "Call of Duty" game they are playing. I still have a hard time getting them to use iron sights since that's not an option in the game.

cpy911 · Post by **cpy911** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:50 am

Thanks for the comments.

Makes sense...people have now grown up with AR platform and that is what they are used to. Also, its easy to modify and tweak to the user's customizations.
I guess I missed out on this. I have fired and AR, and appreciate it, hey I like guns, but I didn't have the urge to jump on the bandwagon (course the price is way up on them now!). Guess I will stick with my old levergun and garand.

I will post some stories about grandpas 1940 levergun sometime soon.

Thanks.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:19 pm

Nothing wrong with a Garand if you have plenty of Clips.

Plus, unlike .223/.308 you can actually buy .30-06 right now.

And as MY MBR also weighs in at 11 odd pounds, I don't consider the Garand's weight a handicap in the slightest... especially given the range increase over anything an AR upper will spit out.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:29 pm

The popularity of the AR is simple. You can easily change the rifle to fit whatever need you have. When it comes to that type of rifle I was an AK man or a long time because they flat out work when you need them too. I then started building some AR rifles and quickly seen why they were so popular.

You can buy a 5.56 lower half and then simply by pushing two pins out change the caliber of the rifle in 2 seconds with another upper and have a totally different rifle and use the same mags.

I can have a nice hunting rifle in 6.5 or several other calibers and then come home and change the upper and within seconds have a short barrel home defense gun in .223.

There are so many various ways you can change the gun around for different applications within seconds. You can order a small caliber lower and a large caliber lower.....have those two guns. Then you can get any of the other parts such as complete uppers in different variations sent straight to your house since they are parts.

NavyDMO · Post by **NavyDMO** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:41 pm

Let's see where my Commander in Chief takes this anti-gun thing to next, it's created a heck of a black gun rush as stated here. I have a complete lower receiver at the house that I was meaning to finish, I'm thinking somebody is crazy enough to do an even trade for a Turnbull 1886, I will also consider the Clay lever in n.475 Linebaugh. Lol.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:51 pm

I hold no fascination for the M-16 platform at all. I have fired a couple AR-15s and one fully functional M-16. They went bang every time I pulled the trigger, and I usually hit was I was aiming at. Nothing really special about that.

They are a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. For those that go nuts and outfit them every which way, I say go for it. But don't forget it's just a tool, a very adaptable tool, but just a tool. Many people do forget that.

Just like the O3-A3, or M1 Grand, or M14, it's a tool.

I've said for a long time that if I ever got one I wanted what was called a CAR-15. A collapsible stocked short (16") barreled carbine version. Just caus.

It would make a nice noise maker with a blank firing attachment on the 4th of July.

Joe

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:55 pm

Joe,
I have one, it is what I carry with me going back and forth to N.M.
It travels well.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:52 pm

I'll bet they do. But they're so loud they'll scare the beegeebers out of your horses. So be sure to dismount before you fend off the renegades .....

Joe

Les Staley · Post by **Les Staley** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:20 pm

The thing that tipped me over to AR15s was an experience with a Ruger mini 14.. a coffee cup would have been safe at 100 yds with the one I bought new, a ranch stainless.. shot terrible. My local ground squirrels and the coyote population just hates my AR.. I picked up some M16 A1 uppers a few years back, brand new surplussed uppers, chrome lined 1/12 lightweight 20".. will hover about an inch at 100 yds all day long.. (just sold one for $1750 and bought a Rossi Braztech 44 mag SS trapper..) they've been a good investment..

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:54 pm

I used to ride the hayburners all the time when I was a kid, last one I was around kicked me.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:10 pm

I only got my second AR because I think that every citizen should have one. The cost was not an issue, the "legality" was not an issue, the appeal was not an issue, the utility was not an issue, right vs wrong was the issue. Having one is right.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:43 pm

Hobie,

I have a battle rifle so I'm not worried that having an AR-15 is "right". However. If you really think it's so important I have a Mattel Toy plastic rifle, my birthday is coming up in August.

I won't turn one down if it's given to me.

That IS unfortunately the only way I could ever afford one.

Joe

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:58 pm

Deleted

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:04 pm

Lots of folks used them for serious purposes, and took a liking to them. Then again, their are those of use who used them for serious purposes and cussed them. Then there are those that want to look like they used them for serious purposes.

But to tell the truth, one big reason for their popularity is the same as it has been for pretty much all rifles and handguns used by the military. They were used by the military. Think about the popularity of the 1911, Garand, 1903's & Enfields, M-1 carbines etc. They proved their worth, and most gun enthusiasts appreciate them for their utility and history.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:22 pm

What's to like...???

Precision machines,
extremely accurate,
little recoil,
flat shooting,
enough power for medium game,
rapid followup shots when needed,
adaptable to even small stature shooters,
easily scoped,
easily suppressed,
excellent iron sights available.
adaptable to variety of configurations and cartridges.

What's NOT to like...???

Not 'traditional' looking.
not very powerful.
the irritating 'sproing' sound from the mainspring.

Oh yeah - one more thing to like about them...

the mere sight of one raises hoplophobic liberal's blood pressure

cpy911 · Post by **cpy911** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:43 am

Rusty wrote:Well CPY, are you gonna share any of the history your dad shared with you?

I got time... I can wait. I love a good story.

Okay, here are your stories!

This is Grandpa's Model 94 Winchester rifle.

Per the serial number, this rifle was built circa 1940. At the good old age of 70+ years, she has seen a bit of use.

I took it out to the hills to blast away in 2008.

The Winchester '94 "Grandpa rifle" is in the background and in the foreground is my Rossi '92 .357 carbine.
I guess I have a soft spot for lever action guns. Heck, they helped win the west! They are good farm tools too, like shovels and plows. I guess I have farming in my blood...
Nothing like guns made of wood and steel!

Had a good time. The 94 Winchester was "grandpas" camp gun. My grandpa and his 2 brothers were sheep herders in central Utah.

The brothers bought the rifle together in 1940, the year of manufacture, and pooled their money in order to buy it. It was a shared resource for the brothers as none of them were particularly wealthy.

I understand the rifle went with them up in the canyons when they were herding sheep to dispatch various predators and kill white tails too.

The brothers used the rifle a lot and it shows wear and use. The barrel actually looks pretty good. My father would have only been 6 years old at the time it was acquired by his father.

My father eventually grew up and moved away to University life. My Grandfather kept the rifle. After my father graduated and was working out of state, my Grandfather passed away (I have never known him). My father traveled back to attend the funeral. During that time, the house was opened up for any of his children to "take" whatever they wanted of his stuff that meant anything.

My father said that in the corner of the room was the old Winchester 94, but it had a problem. My father told me the story that at some point, Grandpa (or one of his brothers) had the rifle in a scabbard on horseback. During a horse ride, a tree branch got jammed into the lever, the horse got spooked and jumped and bent the lever so it stuck out sideways!!! My Dad thought that nobody wanted it since it was broken. He took the rifle home with him and had a gunsmith carefully bend the lever back in shape. The repair is a real piece of workmanship, to this day, I can not see the damage.

Over the years, as I got to shooting age, my Dad handed me the rifle and some shells and let me have at it. It kicked like a mule to my young 12 year old shoulder and I had (still have) a lot of respect for it! He said that was your Grandpa's rifle, told me some stories about it, and said it is yours.

As a grown man with my own boys I will hand it down like my Dad did for me. It is nothing pristine or special (other than the carbine style stock), but it is a family heirloom and fun to have around.

I haven't shot that gun for years and years. In 2008, after I moved back to my home state, I went to one of the old shootin' spots where my Dad and I used to go when I was but a wee lad. I remember that gun had lots of bark and bite too. It wasn't too bad to shoot, now being older compared to shooting it as a kid!

I had some old 30-30 boxes of shells inherited with the rifle. This rifle worked flawlessly. Smooth action and good looking barrel. Fun gun. Most of the bluing is gone and the stock is cracked slightly (I think due to the lever bending accident) but it still shoots well. Not bad for 70+ years old! Not to be underestimated. These guns won the west and are still viable tools today! Whitetail deer can testify to the deadliness of these fine lever guns.

My late Father would be proud to see this particular barrel "warmed up", and warmed up it was.

Gotta love old guns. I will keep this in the family, maybe my son will shoot that for many years to come. Americans make some nice guns, and I can't believe how it still running smooth. Too bad Winchester is out of business with their North American operation.

Regards!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:20 am

That was great

Stories and pictures. Thanks a bunch.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:02 am

cpy911 wrote: what are we getting tactical for? For bad times, go read about what Ferfal, a guy in Argentina that survived societal breakdown says, "The survivalist IS NOT a soldier, even though you are a soldier or you once were the meanest mother on the battlefield, your home town is not a battlefield and it won’t be, even if the bad times. A LOT of water has to go under the bridge until the situation gets to a point where you can calmly walk down the street with a rifle on your shoulder. People, if you are interested in real world bad times situation and you want to prepare for the real deal, then understand that this isn’t black or white. You wake up one day and listen on the radio that the economy collapsed and that the stock market closed indefinitely. What do you do? You still have to go to the office/work/whatever. Kiss the wife good bye and walk to the office with your AR across your back, or across your chest, Israeli style, ready to shoot? You won’t get far. Someone will shoot you or throw you in jail, or in a mental institution."

He goes on to say get a handgun! That is what you can carry with you always, you are not a soldier and can't carry a rifle everywhere.

Argentina was not the global empire at the time of their collapse. Ferfal has some great insights and tips but equating Argentina to the USA is not accurate. Our empire has over extended it's self like the Roman, Chinese, German and British. The chance of our retracting that empire in a peaceful dignified manner like the 15th century Chinese is zero given the arrogant corpratocracy we have abdicated our rights to. Unless we have a 500# gorilla(USA) sitting on our prostrate back like Britain did we will either retract in pieces like Rome or in flames like Hitler.
Ferfal already lived in a Peron fascist country. A battle rifle in every household should be mandatory in the US to defend against a military that might attempt to permanently install something other than the representative republic we used to have. We SHOULD NOT be restricted from having the exact arm our military has access to. But, as it is, we are stuck with limited arms. If you don't think limited arms have any use against a better/larger military force, take a moment to ask the military leaders in the USSR and USA about those pesky Afgans.
And Ferfal is correct, a modern full capacity sidearm should be with you at all times to get you back to the battle rifle you left nearby.

FWIW, I have never fired an AR.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:16 am

CORPATOCRACY
I like that discriptive, very appropriate.

Meeteetse · Post by **Meeteetse** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:43 am

I'll give you a slightly different perspective. This is the first generation that approves of the military and what they do since WWII and Korea. As a result, this generation wants to be like the military, but because they don't have to serve, they choose to want to copy, as close as possible all that is military. They say copying something is the sincerest form of flattery. Those that have or currently serve, thank you for your service.

I am old enough to remember the years after WWII and Korea when kids admired their fathers and their military service and wanted to be like them. We made or bought look-a-like helmets, packs, rifles, etc., and we played army. Later when we were older, many of us were drafted and learned to shoot the Garand, the M14 and eventually the M16. I loved the Garand and the M14, still do, but because it came late in my military time, I never learned to like the M16. Doesn't make it bad, I just didn't and still don't like it.

Today's generation loves the military, as we all should, and admires the equipment they use. I do, at least when it comes to the packs, clothing, etc., etc. Manufacturers realized this and have grown the industry to meet the demand. Heck, the auto industry even built a civilian Hummer. I don't know if the civilian market or the military industry developed some of the changes, additions or add-ons that have taken place, but the guns have improved, the after market accessories are amazing and the guns are very accurate. Nothing wrong with that. I guess I may even have to consider one someday. I am sure Obama will realize the guns are not the issue and the market will come back to normal so I can find one.

In the mean time I will have to suffer through with my lever guns, bolt guns, my Garand and a few others. I figure my Grandfather and others before him made it through the growing up years in the western U.S. with lever and bolt guns, and without and M4/AR type, so there is no reason I can't. If the hoards of zombies or the military turns on the public, it won't make much difference what we have. I would like to have a place to hang my Swiss Army knife on my Garand. If I get a small one I can put it in the butt stock.

44-40 Willy · Post by **44-40 Willy** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:16 am

Never been a fan of either the AR or AK. Some folks like them. I did 20 in the Navy and never got a chance to shoot a M-16. Qualified expert with the 1911 and M-14 thought. I did get to shoot an Uzi while on an exchange tour with the Belgian Navy but that's the only full auto experience I've had.

I'll just stick with my leverguns. I'm pushing 60 and not in real good health so it's not likely I'll be going out looking for blue helmets to pop or anything.

hqm · Post by **hqm** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:57 am

I think the AR15 is popular because of the military connection, and the availability of magazines with 20 or more rounds. I don't really enjoy shooting them so much though, I dislike the feel of the recoil, with the "SPROING!" from the buffer spring.

I enjoy shooting the Garand , m1 carbine, I enjoy shooting the .357 lever rifle maybe more than anything else. I feel more accurate with it, with iron sights and all. Maybe it's the quieter lower velocity bullet, or the balance and feel of solid wood and steel instead of plastic and aluminum.

I turned 50 this year. I wish I'd taken up lever rifles more seriously a long time ago. I think John M Browning was one of the greatest inventors and artists of all time. I sometimes wonder what he would be doing today. None of his designs are even obsolete, more than a hundred years later. Amazing.

deafrn · Post by **deafrn** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:34 am

The AR is just the latest (more-or-less) installation in a continuum of personal weapon development. One can argue that within its role - that of a state or empire's "lowest common denominator" infantry weapon - it is the current culmination of lessons learned combined with available technology... and is probably a more effective item overall than what has proceeded it. Ammunition, magazines and spares are (or were, prior to the Desolation of the Obamanation) available everywhere; the platform is probably more usefully modular than anything else out there; accessories are almost endless, even when the garbage is eliminated. That list makes them fairly attractive. The M4 "clones" out there like Colt's 6920, Daniel Defense's M4V(whatever), etc are so easy to learn to shoot - and make hits - for the average user that personal grumbling over details aside,* there isn't that much to complain about with the latest generation of ARs.

*My own personal dislikes are that they get really cruddy after relatively few rounds, they are too bulky in the vertical dimension (especially with the 30-round magazine), the pistol grip is awkward for me, the front sight post is WAY too close to my eye and I can not shake the feeling that they are essentially fragile (if not downright disposable). Despite all that, the genre is pretty forgiving of bad technique and is what I'd choose in a personal defense carbine (as opposed to choosing a "hunting rifle," "range toy" or ballistic trip down memory lane).

In a nutshell, I'm not enamored of them but I consider them too effective to dismiss.

One mans meat, etc...

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:51 am

I purchased my first AR a little less than 2 years ago, at 52, because I WANTED ONE> It's nothing more than an expensive, very accurate, semi-auto, range toy.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:22 am

I carried an M16 from '83-'87 as a security specialist in USAF. Haven't touched one since as for me, they have as much appeal as a hammer.

As for why they're popular, guys like toys. And hotrodding them. Thus the popularity.

I really have all the arms I need now. A couple of levers and shotties, a bolt, a .22LR semi-auto and a half a dozen pistols and revolvers.

If the price of the AR's comes down to reasonable levels I may purchase a bare bones rig to simply have one as Hobie points out. I know if the blue helmets come along I'm too old to get in close and mix thing up. I'll likely be pulling an Alamo and this is where the AR would come in handy for me.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:08 pm

If it comes down to pulling an Alamo, I wanna Ma Duce

But that is pretty much my view on things too. I'm too old to look for a fight, and to stove up to run from one.
So ....

Joe

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:18 pm

I much prefer the design and aesthetics of the mini Garand Mini-14 but being a reloader my subconscious brass scrounginess made it difficult to concentrate on the shooting and keeping track of where the brass was landing. I sold it and bought a H&R Handi Rifle in .223 as my goat gun. In hindsight I wish I kept it to at least shoot up the cheap steel case Russian ammo I bought allot of.