would'nt this be illegal

[jh45gun]

Guy puts a removable padded butt pad on a Ranch Hand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0J2pawM0BE

[Pitchy]

Now all he needs to do is lengthen the barrel and h`ll have a rifle again.

[COSteve]

True, very true!

As to the OP's question, yes, I think the ATF would have some real heartburn with extending the stock via a pad to use it as a shoulder fired weapon without the SBR tax stamp.

[AJMD429]

Since the gun is already set up with a 'buttstock' and 'designed to be fired from the shoulder' as it comes from the factory, I think the gun would have to be made 26" long to no longer be a 'pistol'. However, given the ATF's track-record of heavy-handed treatment of paperwork violations (instead of going after REAL criminals ), I wouldn't mess with it either.

They are already psycho enough about the Contender/Encore guns...

[Streetstar]

Kind of an "interesting" group of guys --- they must get plenty of hogs because they all certainly look well fed

That butt pad looks like one of those gray area things i would probably be willing to use myself, but would not advertise the fact on Youtube just in case

[COSteve]

Since the gun is already set up with a 'buttstock' and 'designed to be fired from the shoulder' as it comes from the factory, I think the gun would have to be made 26" long to no longer be a 'pistol'. However, given the ATF's track-record of heavy-handed treatment of paperwork violations (instead of going after REAL criminals ), I wouldn't mess with it either.

They are already psycho enough about the Contender/Encore guns...

Sorry, the Ranch Hand is classed as a pistol and therefore, by definition, it is not designed to be fired from the shoulder. Adding any stock or extension to a pistol that allows it to be fired from the shoulder is illegal without SBR paperwork and stamp because the act of adding the stock converts the pistol into a SBR. I know that it comes with a small 'grip' and I honestly don't know how they got the ATF to consider it a pistol grip rather than a buttstock, but they did and therefore it is not to be used to support the firearm at the shoulder.

[Canuck Bob]

I don't quite understand. Shouldn't adding the pad reduce its conceal ability and make it less of a criminal use tool? Besides a criminal with a hacksaw isn't referring to the rule book while sawing!

Of course here a flintlock replica pistol is considered the same as a Glock!

[AJMD429]

I don't quite understand. Shouldn't adding the pad reduce its conceal ability and make it less of a criminal use tool?

Just think what would logically make sense, then assume the opposite, and you likely have what the ATF would say.

I'm not surprised if COSteve is right; even though one would logically think it makes sense that a gun sold with a flat 'buttstock' complete with a 'buttplate' which would serve no other purpose but to allow a solid fix against the shoulder, would not be considered "designed to fire from the shoulder", whereas slipping a leather pad over it would suddenly make it so. Kind of like saying feet aren't designed for walking until you put socks on them...

[Old Ironsights]

I don't quite understand. Shouldn't adding the pad reduce its conceal ability and make it less of a criminal use tool? Besides a criminal with a hacksaw isn't referring to the rule book while sawing!

Of course here a flintlock replica pistol is considered the same as a Glock!

Of course you don't understand ATF rules. We are Yanks and we don't get it. How could a Canuk get it?

[Griff]

How is it different than having a shoulder stock for an 1860 Army?

[Old Ironsights]

How is it different than having a shoulder stock for an 1860 Army?

An 1860 Army isn't considered a "gun" by the BAT men (yet)...

It will take me (or Hobie) a bit, but either of us can dig up the SCOTUS ruling that "defined" what is "legal" in converting a "pistol" to a "rifle" or back again in the US vs TC case....

[Canuck Bob]

Of course you don't understand ATF rules. We are Yanks and we don't get it. How could a Canuk get it?

Good point Ironsights! We call them rifles, you call them handguns!

[Old Ironsights]

Of course you don't understand ATF rules. We are Yanks and we don't get it. How could a Canuk get it?

Good point Ironsights! We call them rifles, you call them handguns!

My favorite example of the above is a 12ga Hogleg that is available over the counter in Ca that would cause a BATman hemorrhage in the US...

Why can't I buy a handgun in Ca, but I CAN buy a "sawed off" 12 ga?

Government is stupid.

[765x53]

As my favorite lawyer often says, http://kljamisonlaw.com/ "It doesn't have to make sense, it's just "The Law"."

[mohavesam]

The pistol configuration as-licensed by the ATFE does NOT allow any apparatus converting the pistol (handgun) to be fired from the shoulder or upper arm. Felony. As has been said, you don't get to justify the law. It's the law. If you break the law, you're the criminal, and ignorance of the law is no defense.

From the likes of that video (..an I put that thing on that there thing...) no one has bothered to check the regs or talk with a firearms-experienced lawyer.

[Rusty]

A shoulder stock on an 1860 Army wouldn't fall into that catagory because of the muzzleloader thing, but what would fit closer to home would be a shoulder stock for a 1911, Browning Hi-Power, or a Broomhandle Mauser. A of those are verbooten as well.

[buckeyeshooter]

I can see bubba is alive and well, hunting hogs. Not especially bright to post it on u-tube---- wonder how long until Holder's boys visit them?

[FWiedner]

True, very true!

As to the OP's question, yes, I think the ATF would have some real heartburn with extending the stock via a pad to use it as a shoulder fired weapon without the SBR tax stamp.

As long as it's just a pad and not a permanently affixed piece of hardware there shouldn't be a problem, but who knows how the government's anti-gun jack-boots will read their laws on any given day.

[JB]

True, very true!

As to the OP's question, yes, I think the ATF would have some real heartburn with extending the stock via a pad to use it as a shoulder fired weapon without the SBR tax stamp.

As long as it's just a pad and not a permanently affixed piece of hardware there shouldn't be a problem, but who knows how the government's anti-gun jack-boots will read their laws on any given day.

I can't watch the video here at work, but removable or not, attaching a stock to a handgun with a barrel length of less than 16" makes it a "short barreled rifle" and it must be registered with the BATF.

[Leverluver]

Put one of those 45 colt conversion cylinders on a stocked 1860 and stroll in front of your local ATF office and see what happens.

How is it different than having a shoulder stock for an 1860 Army?

[madman4570]

Ok, now is this legal ???????????????/

say, you take a single shot break open shotgun.
You cut the barrel to 19" long.
You then measure from the end of that barrel back 27" and trim the buttstock,so that the gun has a total overall length of 27" at its shortest point with a 19" barrel--------------------------is that legal????????????

Or-------------is there an issue because that buttstock (on that gun)was originally developed to be fired from the shoulder(full buttstock) and now firing it that way------------------(would be hard pressed)

But----you do see people having buttstock modifications for small shooters etc also guns coming with various changable stock setups/Gun Smiths doing stock modifications etc. ----as well as the pistol grips you can get say for an Rem 870 pump gun??????????????

But for a single barrel cut down to 27" with a 19" barrel that was once (say, a 24" barrel and 40" long previously)??????

What I have now(just your normal uncut 40" OAL single shotgun)still works darn good in the handy department as well as the tad bit longer Deerslayers etc.

[jh45gun]

As long as the overall length and the barrel length does not go shorter than what BTAF says on a long gun it is fine but you cannot stock a handgun unless you pay the 200 dollar tax and go through the hoops. I would not want to take a risk if the BTAF says your making a Short barrel rifle.

[COSteve]

True, very true!

As to the OP's question, yes, I think the ATF would have some real heartburn with extending the stock via a pad to use it as a shoulder fired weapon without the SBR tax stamp.

As long as it's just a pad and not a permanently affixed piece of hardware there shouldn't be a problem, but who knows how the government's anti-gun jack-boots will read their laws on any given day.

Actually no. Doesn't matter if it's permanently attached or not. You mount a stock on a pistol and you've created a SBR.

[AJMD429]

For those who think such-and-such "shouldn't be a problem" - remember the dude whose Olympic Arms slam-fired several times due to some malfunction that the manufacturer admitted had been a problem and that the ATF was essentially unable to reproduce, yet was charged and found guilty of a federal firearms felony. . .

[Bridger]

....................and everything that has been said just amounts to more reasons to disband the ATF entirely.

[1894c]

at least when the ATF shows up they'll have digital evidence to convict the "hawgkiller 3" gang...plus a great description and admission of use of the "little cheater" attached to the Rossi...bone-head... :)

UP-DATE: apparently someone smacked them hard and they changed their collective mind about using the "little-cheater"...if you scroll down on the you-tube vid you'll see this statement...

THEHOGZONE 4 days ago
Yeah we've been over it has to make the gun over 26" and all the lawyers here are fighting over whether it has to be a permanent modification or not. Anyway I don't use it anymore I don't need it anyhow I can shoulder and fire the gun just fine with no issues so it is a rifle for me a pistol for larger guys. I have videos on my deepfriedking channel shooting the hell out of it. Gun is 24" so I have 2" of play...

[Sixgun]

There ain't no law that says, "how you have to hold the gun when you shoot it". If its a handgun and you want to shoot it against your ear, thats your business. If you want to add different grips/stocks to your handgun, thats your business.

The guy did not turn it into a sbr. He added a removable foam pad onto the wood end of it and decided to shoot it from his shoulder---therefore, its HIS business. His gun has not been altered into a sbr. To do that, he would have to add a full buttstock.-----------------Sixgun

[Old Ironsights]

There ain't no law that says, "how you have to hold the gun when you shoot it". If its a handgun and you want to shoot it against your ear, thats your business. If you want to add different grips/stocks to your handgun, thats your business.

The guy did not turn it into a sbr. He added a removable foam pad onto the wood end of it and decided to shoot it from his shoulder---therefore, its HIS business. His gun has not been altered into a sbr. To do that, he would have to add a full buttstock.-----------------Sixgun

Except that's not how the BAT men work, or think. Their job is to arrest gun owners and to justify their existence.

Remember, according to these clowns, it's illegal unless you get "permission" from them first.