.380 Eley - the elusive bullet!

[JohndeFresno]

In Handloader Magazine issue 280 (October 2012), Mike Venturino's "Colt's Eight Big SAA's" mentions that one - yes, one - Colt SAA was produced in the .380 Eley caliber.

So, my interest was peaked. Lo and behold - no load data, anywhere. Not in Lee's Modern Reloading, Hornady or Speer or (of course) Barnes or even my relatively old Hodgon No. 26; or others. Not online in LoadData, AmmoGuide, or others, again.

It is not even found in W.W. Greener's "The Gun and its Development," or Hatcher's "Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers" or his "Hatcher's Notebook." And the caliber does not show up in "Cartridges of the World" 10th edition. I think I can say that with some degree of accuracy, because the aforementioned books either have indexes or I have copies in pdf (computer searchable) format.

Yet one reads anecdotally that the British used this black powder caliber for a while in their police and government revolvers before switching to a "real" round - that's my choice of words. Some accounts claim that the bullet was a real manstopper because of its very slow, heavy lead bullet. Other accounts relate that the bullet was cursed for bouncing off trees, with other similar poor penetration remarks about its ability to penetrate its intended targets. I would suspect the latter was more correct.

"Enfield56" posted his "Eley .380 Dutch" diagram, apparently a scan of a document produced by the Eley company, at http://www.iaaforum.org. Just Google "Eley 380 Dutch" to find it. I'd post the photo and link, but as I recall this is discouraged and/or illegal without explicit permission from the forum; and I'm not a member.

The diagram shows the round to be a stubby 1.126 inches overall (COAL), with a .80 inch casing and a .391 caliber roundnose 190 grain bullet, 98% lead, 2% antimony, .710 inch long.

Very odd - the one caliber that I have run across for which literally NO load information appears to be anywhere on the radar screen.

For your consideration - and a challenge - you collectors and old gun buffs!

[Ben_Rumson]

Through this together out of well worn copy of the 3rd...

[gamekeeper]

Ben, you beat me to it....

[JohndeFresno]

Thanks, Ben, but: Not the same. That's a much lighter bullet. I have that one in my "Cartridges of the World," too.

I'm looking for a 190 grain bullet, classified as an "Eley;" just as the more popularly known ".455 Webley." And the specs show this one's diameter as .391 - definitely not the same.

Caliber: .391"
Bullet Wt. grains: 190
COAL: 1.126"
Case: .80"
Case width: .420"
Base: .495"
Bullet Length: .710"
The diagram, as cited above, is marked with a signature and above it, "Eley Bros. Ltd."

[Bridger]

Maybe the fact that it says .391 might have something to do with it having a heeled bullet or something? Or maybe I am getting confused and that didn't make any sense lol.

[junkbug]

How different would this loading be from a black powder .38 S&W. I know the S&W bullet is only 148gr, so it might go faster. But loading a 200gr bullet over black powder is entirely feasible. Wonder if anyone has tried that lately, in one of those old break-top revolvers.

[Ben_Rumson]

FWIW I took the “Dutch” hint I looked up 1870s Dutch revolvers...The 9.4 Dutch Soerabaja/10mm Beaumont has a .392" bullet and depending on the terminology some other dimensions that are close to what you posted..
...More info here but no bullet pics
http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm

[JohndeFresno]

Ben, I find smatterings of statements within various gun forums that mention the .380 Eley; and that's all. For the record, it is called ".380 Dutch Rev Cartridge" on the chart that I related to (Eley Bros. Ltd, M Pasley?? [signature], Works Manager).

And here is how the article starts in the magazine cited above, Handloader Magazine issue 280 (October 2012), Mike Venturino's "Colt's Eight Big SAA's":
"Among repeating handguns, the Colt Single Action Army (SAA) has likely been chambered for more cartridges than any other. Some sources rate the number as high as 30, ranging from .22 rimfire to .476 Eley. In numbers produced, one SAA was made in .380 Eley, and of course, hundreds of thousands have been made in .45 Colt."

The highlighting and underlining was done by yours truly. But no mention of a metric caliber. No, I think that this is a mystery cartridge, probably so horribly unsuccessful that it was not considered worth mentioning. But that is still quite odd, in our statistics filled world.

[Rusty]

Any idea what the velocity was on this "slow" moving bullet?

[JohndeFresno]

Any idea what the velocity was on this "slow" moving bullet?

I don't know, but you can buy 50 of these black powder Eley .380 bullets for only $1495 at:
http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=17254

And there is a photo of one for sale - one inert .380 Eley bullet - at:
http://specialistauctions.com/auctionde ... id=1324994

Er - should I put this in the "Classified" section and mark it "FS - Elsewhere?"

Since the bullet is heavier than a .38 S&W load, and the case is about the same length, I would have to surmise that it would barely make 600-650 fps at the muzzle, if that. I can't find the stats on this bullet.