.30-.30 lever for a beginning lady hunter - thoughts?

[Triggernosis]

I've got someone that I've been teaching to shoot that is interested in purchasing her first rifle to hunt deer with (from a stand)..usually over a soybean or corn field with absolute max. distances around 225-250 yards. I've come across a good deal on a used Marlin 336 in .30-.30 that I think may work for her.

What's the opinions on the .30-.30, as a cartridge, for a beginning lady hunter?

[El Chivo]

Lady, Gentleman, or child, it is appropriate for the use. However I think the 336 kicks a little in 30-30, and gets a little loud. When you're hunting, those things don't matter much in the excitement, but for general shooting maybe a .357 would be better. Depends on the lady.

(DON'T post those fat lady pics again guys)

[shooter]

The cartridge is fine, it's all about how comfortable she is with it and the gun. My wife can't shoot the 30-30. The gun is too big for her and she doesn't like the recoil. She does fine with my .243 or her 7mm-08 because she is confident in her abilities and isn't scared of the recoil. It doesn't matter what caliber you get her if the gun is a poor fit, or kicks too hard, etc. I would suggest letting her try out several different rifles if possible before investing in one.

250 yds. is pushing the very edge of my comfort level in the 30-30, but IMO it is capable of cleanly taking game at that distance. It is not a very flat shooting cartridge. The main thing is to get her comfortable and have her practice, practice, practice with whatever you are able to get her. If the gun doesn't quite fit, take the time to modify the stock so it does. It will be well worth it. If she doesn't like the gun and isn't confident, she will lose interest quickly.

[Hobie]

New shooter, lady (small stature?), I'd recommend a compact (i.e. youth model) bolt action 7mm-08, scoped for 250 yard shots. No, it isn't a levergun but to be honest, how many shooters without experience will be anything but frustrated by the .30-30 sans scope sight? Savage makes the best, at the best price and you don't have much invested in the total package whereas even a used .30-30 without a scope will cost as much (retail prices here, you might luck on to a private party deal).

[Triggernosis]

New shooter, lady (small stature?), I'd recommend a compact (i.e. youth model) bolt action 7mm-08, scoped for 250 yard shots. No, it isn't a levergun but to be honest, how many shooters without experience will be anything but frustrated by the .30-30 sans scope sight? Savage makes the best, at the best price and you don't have much invested in the total package whereas even a used .30-30 without a scope will cost as much (retail prices here, you might luck on to a private party deal).

Well, she isn't small stature by any means and is currently wearing out a 10" steel gong at 200 yards with my .270 bolt action and AR15 in .223. BUT, my .270 is scoped, the .30-.30 is not...yet.
Thus, your comment about a .30-.30 without a scope is a very good point, Hobie. It is very frustrating without a scope, particularly near dusk when she won't be able to see the open sights very well anyway.
I just came across a realy good deal on a 336 with some gorgeous wood, but I think it may be best to wait until she has some more money and get her set up with a 7mm-08 with a decent scope. The 336 plus a Weaver scope and rings would be pushing $600, so i think the "wait and save" approach may be better in this case.

[RustyJr]

I would agree Hobie and Shooter that a scoped 7mm-08 would probably be a better choice. If she is shooting your 270 well enough and likes that then that is an option as well (270 happens to be my favorite deer round). Whatever happens I'd let her pick what she feels comfortable with.

RustyJr

[jshinal]

7mm-08 is a superb round - but consider how/where she will purchase her ammo.

If she has / will use a gun shop then 7mm-08 is a cinch. If she buys from a local Wal-Mart or old-fashioned hardware store that round isn't going to be as common as .270 might be.

But asking for 140 grain loadings of 7mm-08 is sure to gain her some respect.

[J Miller]

Triggernosis,

My wife stands 5'5" and can handle a standard Win 94 in 30-30 just fine.

Pick up a rifle, a pre-AE Win 94 preferably, and let her try it. "SHE" will tell you how she feels about it.
The 30-30 in a Win 94 is a very balanced round, minimal felt recoil, and moderate muzzle blast. FAR less than a 7mm-08.
The 30-30 from a Marlin 336 has always beat the stuff out of my cheek bone and feels like it has twice the recoil of the Winchester. It's the shape and drop of the stock that makes the difference.

The Win 94 is much more ergonomic and user friendly.

Joe

[Hobie]

New shooter, lady (small stature?), I'd recommend a compact (i.e. youth model) bolt action 7mm-08, scoped for 250 yard shots. No, it isn't a levergun but to be honest, how many shooters without experience will be anything but frustrated by the .30-30 sans scope sight? Savage makes the best, at the best price and you don't have much invested in the total package whereas even a used .30-30 without a scope will cost as much (retail prices here, you might luck on to a private party deal).

Well, she isn't small stature by any means and is currently wearing out a 10" steel gong at 200 yards with my .270 bolt action and AR15 in .223. BUT, my .270 is scoped, the .30-.30 is not...yet.
Thus, your comment about a .30-.30 without a scope is a very good point, Hobie. It is very frustrating without a scope, particularly near dusk when she won't be able to see the open sights very well anyway.
I just came across a realy good deal on a 336 with some gorgeous wood, but I think it may be best to wait until she has some more money and get her set up with a 7mm-08 with a decent scope. The 336 plus a Weaver scope and rings would be pushing $600, so i think the "wait and save" approach may be better in this case.

As usual complete background information would have resulted in a better answer.

[olyinaz]

I dont hunt, but I do shoot a lot and a .25 caliber or 6.5mm rifle sounds perfect for the mission suggested.

.25-06
.257 Roberts
6.5mm Swede
.260 Rem
6.5 Creedmore

.257 Bob with Federal +P ammo shoots really nice.

I find that 7mm-08 kicks about like a .308 or .30-30 in a lever gun, which my wife finds objectionable.

Remington makes .308 and .30-06 125gr reduced recoil ammo now also, so that's something to think about.

Edit: What Hobie said.

Oly

[Marlin32]

Distance may not be conducive to good experience with the 30/30. There are reduced recoil loads for it I think, if recoil is issue, which I really can't imagine with a 30/30, but she won't know what she is shooting when pulls trigger on a deer.

Especially without a scope, either find a closer shot and use the 30/30 or move to a BLR in 7mm-08 or 257 Roberts. Good Rem 700 in 7mm-08, 7x57, 257Roberts, 6.5mm's etc, all good.

Gunsinternational had a couple of 7x57mm on the site I think. A couple of Rem 700's and a Ruger model 77 I think. I know there were several Ruger No. 1's but the 7x57 would foot the bill nicely I would think.

[6pt-sika]

When I married exwitch #2 I purchased a brand new Marlin 336Y 30-30 for her to use to shoot paper and deer .

I tried Winchester 150 grain Silver Tip factory loads and they shot nicely but I thought the recoil might be a bit much for exwitch #2 as she was only 5'2" and 90 pounds .

So I got several different 150 grain gas check molds , cast a bunch and made some moderate loads . My cast bullet loads shot better then the factory stuff and recoil was cut perhaps 50% .

We didn't stay married that long so she never shot a deer with it . I however hunted with the little gun some and it was a pretty decent carry gun after I put a normal LOP stock on the gun .

Sad to say this one went away when I had my clean house sale a couple years back !

That little rifle with the shorter stock , 16 1/2" barrel and my moderate cast bullet loads would make a fine gun for a small statured person be it man woman or child !

[6pt-sika]

Well since I didn't read everything before making the previouse post . My personal opinion would be for her to get a 25-06 or 280 REM .

And a 6.5-06 would be better yet

[MrMurphy]

J Miller, my experiences with Winchesters and Marlins in .30-30 has been the exact opposite, which is why i prefer the Marlin.


I'd advise her a midsize bolt gun over a .30-30, honestly, with a decent scope.

[Dave]

If she is shooting the 270 that well I would get her something comparable to that. If the 336 is a nice pre safety gun I would buy it and stash it even if I wasn't going to use it right away if the price was really good.

[Tycer]

For the distance and that she shoots yer 270, a 308 in M1A, Bolt or BLR would be a forward thinking choice. I'd lean towards the M1A as it is a multi-purpose great weapon. AR10 might be good too.

[madman4570]

For what she will be doing ($279) with scope(and they shoot)---I shot it!
Niece has one (.308) and absolutely loves it!

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... ckage.html


Don't think (for the recoil)can beat a .308 for what it truly offers (all things considered)
With proper loads will about do it all in NA(if later she wants to move up the distance/size level of the game)

(JMHO)

[Griff]

I've got someone that I've been teaching to shoot that is interested in purchasing her first rifle to hunt deer with (from a stand)..usually over a soybean or corn field with absolute max. distances around 225-250 yards. I've come across a good deal on a used Marlin 336 in .30-.30 that I think may work for her.
What's the opinions on the .30-.30, as a cartridge, for a beginning lady hunter?

I happen to think the .30-30 is ideal for a deer cartridge. But, even tho' I have, I don't recommend it for shots much above 150-175 yards. Not that it doesn't still kill effectively at those distances; it's that shot placement is critical for extended ranges such as that.

A rifle in the range of the .243 up to a .284 of some ilk would better serve for those ranges, and have as little or less recoil. depending on load.

[shooter]

Hobie is correct on the Savage. That's what I got my wife, a Savage Axis youth model in 7mm-08, and it was about $350 out the door, with a decent scope already on it. It shoots every load I've tried in it at well under an inch at 100 yards. I disagree about the felt recoil, and so does my wife. I feel a 30-30 has much more felt recoil out of a levergun than a 7mm-08, .243 or similar caliber out of a bolt gun. My wife stands 5'2" and weighs around 120 lbs. (and don't dare tell her I told y'all that ), and she has no trouble shooting the 7mm-08 with full power 140 grain loads, but has trouble handling the 30-30. I do think it has a lot to do with how the rifles fit her differently, which is why I think rifle fit is one of the most important factors in choosing a gun for a female. My wife can handle the recoil on my .243 just fine, but the gun doesn't fit her well, so she hates to shoot it.

I may be repeating myself, but I believe you should let her choose which rifle she wants. You can pick up a Savage or other economic model bolt action new with a scope for what a used levergun will run. I like the shorter action rifles, and a 7mm-08 has basically the same POA from 50 out to 250 yards, maybe a little further depending on where you zero the scope. It's better to spend a little more money on a gun she will love than to get one she won't shoot. Not to say she won't like the 30-30 just fine, but I think it's important to let her decide.

[Triggernosis]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. She HAS decided....to let ME pick one for her because she can't make up her mind (a woman, remember...). Anyway, I'm going to pass on the .30-.30 and see what we can come up with in probably 7mm-08 ('cause I kinda want to fiddle with it, too ). She's saving her money and wants to buy something really nice that she'll be proud to show her uncle, so we're just going to let her build up her cash and see what comes along.

[FWiedner]

Since you've had her practicing with a .270, why not set her up with a .270 (or a .30-06?)

Either one is a proven and effective cartridge, and ammo is available almost everywhere.

No need to get fancy, just get her something that works and that she's already familiar with.

[iceman]

I'd vote for the Axis also. I have one in 223 and it shoots great!! It may not be the prettiest out there but it is not a fashion show. For a starter rifle I don't think it can be beat. (value for money spent)

[shooter]

]Anyway, I'm going to pass on the .30-.30 and see what we can come up with in probably 7mm-08 ('cause I kinda want to fiddle with it, too ).

Truth be told, that's one of the reasons I went with the 7mm-08 over the .243 It really is her gun, but I thought it would be a neat caliber to load for. I already have a .243, so it would have been boring to get her the same thing

I went through this same decision making process when buying my wife's rifle. She never could pin down exactly what she wanted either, but it helped me to get her to narrow it down to a type of rifle, and find out what her criteria was that she wanted. She had hunted with a single shot, and wanted something that held more than one round. She doesn't like a lot of recoil, and she doesn't like a whole lot of noise. She wanted something small enough for her to handle comfortably. I put all those together and came up with the Savage. I really like the Ruger compact rifles, and I really, really love the Browning A Bolt compacts, but they carry a much stiffer price tag than the Savage. The Savage actually feels lighter than the Ruger compact rifle. She was able to compare the two since my cousin has one of the Rugers.

Oh, and my wife is kind of foo-foo in that she always wants her guns to look nice, so I got her one with the camo synthetic stock. She would have preferred pink, but they don't make the Savage in pink. If it keeps her interested, I try to accommodate as best I can.

[86er]

I did not see a recommendation for a 300 Savage (Savage bolt action, lever action, etc - 4 or 5 choices of firearm). It can be scoped, and can be loaded as a 30-30 (same bullet/velocity) or more as necessary. There are a lot of good comments aforementioned. I am a big believer in letting a new shooter pick the rifle they like. Pride of ownership and being part of the selection leads to psychological confidence. Being an adult, I would be less concerned with rifle characteristics like safety mechanism, action, sighting, weight. For a smaller shooter or younger mentality I might consider 357 mag (out to 120 yds), 260 Remington, 7mm-08. Nothing wrong with the 30-30 either if they are accurate with it and know what range that carries to.

[Blaine]

It's usually best to have Ladies pick out their own stuff, and voicing only the opinions that would make a real difference in performance. Personally, I think 225-250 yards is a bit too far unless the shooter is a super range guesser.

[gak]

+1 7mm-08 in a model that fits her. Nice to see the -08 get some much deserved attention.I could care less if it's not readily available at Wallyworld (actually I lie, it'd be nice... but I don't Wallyworld much anyway) but it's not that hard to find. Long time (and continuing) .270 --and .30-30--nut, but the -08 is my next rifle, probably in a Win 70 Featherweight, just because - as the quintessential do-all "mountain rifle." Have shot my friend's OOP Rem 700 Mt Rifle DM a lot - love the round and format. To the OP, in addition to traditional platforms, the -08 also has a great rep for being a good shooter out of shorter barrels (think Rem 7) and "youth models." +1 Hobie's Savage suggestion - it's an excellent one.

[damienph]

For what she will be doing ($279) with scope(and they shoot)---I shot it!
Niece has one (.308) and absolutely loves it!

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.ph ... ckage.html


Don't think (for the recoil)can beat a .308 for what it truly offers (all things considered)
With proper loads will about do it all in NA(if later she wants to move up the distance/size level of the game)

(JMHO)

Before OP said that she is comfortable shooting his 270, I was going to recommend a .243 but...

Those Mossberg ATRs do shoot. One of the young men that works for me bought one for his wife to deer hunt with last fall. He had problems sighting it in, so I helped him out. I could not believe how well it shot. .243, 3x9 scope (Bushnell?), wood stock, OTD under $300.

It shot so well, I am considering one of the Mossberg MVP detachable AR mag bolt guns to add to my modest array of prairie dog guns.

[AJMD429]

ANOTHER thought is that if you consider the 'handlability' or 'recoil' factor, a SHORT but heavy gun (lever, bolt, or whatever) is going do have an advantage, regardless of chambering...

I see many shooters using 'low-recoil' cartridges in long, hard-to-handle guns (unless you have strong forearms), and having miserable results.

Whatever the ultimate solution, use a short, easily-handled, reasonably-powerful cartridge. If you think she/he will need to shoot at a longer-than-optimum range, use a high-ballistic-coefficient, high-velocity round. If you think you can control the maximum-range, or she/he can calculate range/drop well, use whatever she/he likes to shoot.

Remember - a 'geezer' using a .22 LR will be more deadly at 300 yards, than a recoil-sensitive 'newbie' using a .338 Ultra-short-hyper-velocity magnum...

It doesn't take much to kill a whitetail - but you DO need accurate shot placement...

[tman]

3030 with the 140 grain gummy point.

[El Chivo]

yes but short is loud also. Another complaint I have with short guns is they fishtail on me and so are less accurate. Seems to happen with scopes also.

[Rifleman]

I think a lever action 30-30 could work just fine. I have a Win94 in 30-30 and am absolutely confident with it to 300 yard using the Hornady FTX bullets; they cut wind well enough to be forgiving of mistakes in wind estimation.
If you don't reload, hope the LeverEvolution ammo works well in the rifle.

Her range depends on how well she can shoot it; how well she understand ranging targets and doping wind.


I've never shot a 336 but the Win94's recoil isn't uncomfortable.

[FWiedner]

yes but short is loud also. Another complaint I have with short guns is they fishtail on me and so are less accurate. Seems to happen with scopes also.

Can you explain what you mean by "fishtail"?

I've not heard that term before.

[Rifleman]

Can you explain what you mean by "fishtail"?

I'm wondering that myself.

[El Chivo]

Can you explain what you mean by "fishtail"?

I've not heard that term before.

harder to keep steady because of the short length. Tend to move sideways with the trigger pull.

[FWiedner]

Can you explain what you mean by "fishtail"?

I've not heard that term before.

harder to keep steady because of the short length. Tend to move sideways with the trigger pull.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

I just include that particular motion in what I refer to as "wobble".

[Chuck 100 yd]

Back to the OP`s question, I think for most women, .30-30 carbines would kick too hard.
Their design is great for packing and for saddle scabbards but not the best for shooting by a small framed person if full factory loads are used. Depends on how tough she is.
Let her shoot one and see.

[El Chivo]

Can you explain what you mean by "fishtail"?

I've not heard that term before.

harder to keep steady because of the short length. Tend to move sideways with the trigger pull.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

I just include that particular motion in what I refer to as "wobble".

OK, but when I get tense, it's more like dealing with a wet, flopping large mouth bass than small wooden toys that don't fall down.