Which semi auto carbine would you buy?

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:42 pm

I love the M-4 version of the AR family of rifles. However, am thinking that the gas piston system is a define step up for reliability and function. I also like the SCAR platforms. fN makes them and I saw a bushmaster version today. So what I would like to know is your opinions of the gas piston operated AR platforms and SCAR platforms?

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:07 pm

I have a Colt Sporter Lightweight that I bought in '93 and have run a few thousand rounds through it without a single malfunction. Only cleaned the gas tube twice. I almost sold it after the first time I shot it, 6" groups at best. Did a little research and switched from 55 gr bullets to 62 gr and heavier. Much better. @ 2" at 100 yds. With a light 16" bbl.
Love that thing.

I also have an SA SOCOM 16, the first version W/O the rail. This one extends my engagement range far beyond my AR and is wicked accurate.

I'd like to pick up one of the FN's, I fired one that a friend owns but there's others higher up the list.

My thinking is if the AR's and M 14s are working in those sand pits over seas then they should work in just about anything we could run into here..

jb

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:10 pm

I have a Daewoo AR 100,
it is 3 times the gun my CAR 15 is.
Ask Buffalo Boy, he had one and sold it; been kicking himself ever since.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:16 pm

It's a toss up between a Winchester 1907 or the 1910.

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm

Kel-tec folder in 223 or 9mm.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:24 pm

I believe that everybody should have an AR type rifle in 5.56. Exactly what you have that takes M16 magazines in 5.56 is a matter of personal opinion and not really important. However, I think it is important that you get one now.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:53 pm

I'm not really sold on the piston driven AR. The gas impingement models (standard AR) are more accurate and very reliable.

Buy a standard AR of your choice and a good quality AKM as a back up.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:11 pm

The Daewoo has an AK gas system.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:18 pm

Well, you know, since you are one of my chief enablers here, all I have to say is...

Get them all!!!

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:19 pm

I have a buddy who swears by the robinson armament XCR. I'm partial to a plane jane ar-15 of M-4 dimensions though myself. I'm waiting for the dust to settle on the whole piston driven AR thing. Gas impingement has always worked just fine for me. I have another buddy with a sig 556, go ahead and cross that one of your list, balances like a M249 SAW, and shoots as accurately as your average Mini-14. Seems like he's always replacing broken parts too.

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:27 pm

I'd go with an AK in 7.62x39 if the choice were limited to one rifle. They're reliable, simple and ammo and magazines are cheap/abundant. With about 50 million examples in the world, the design has really proven itself. If you are not limited to one carbine, get an AR too. Mags for it are also plentiful as is ammo. Whatever you buy, get spare parts, extra mags and lots of ammo.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:14 am

Well, the traditional AR platform has been going strong for decades before the piston systems came along --- i think the SCAR and ACR (Magpul Massoud ) are the next "logical" progression rather than the 50 year old AR platform for our nation's longer term military needs,

but for guys like most of us on this board? -- ( people who like quality firearms and don't mind cleaning them occasionally) -- the traditional AR is still pretty nice for its intended use. It will be carried in harm's way for a long time until the assimilation of a new platform is complete.

Judging from some of the trick stuff you seem to come across though, i would expect no less if you were getting a small bore "battle rifle" ---
Colt makes 'em best for rack grade carbines -- their 6920 and 6940 are solid products, -- but if ya want something a little more aesthetically pleasing, LaRue and Noveske make very sweet traditional AR's with varmint rifle accuracy.
But, if you like cresting the wave, -- an ACR or a SCAR may be what ya want -- but reportedly, the accuracy potential is not there yet --- (reportedly 2" groups off a bench -- battle rifle accuracy, basically --better than most AK's outside of a Valmet, but not up to what some of the old tech AR's are capable of ) --

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:43 am

I have a carbine with gas impingement, by DPMS. It has the A1 style carrying handle. No problems with it, and I have a little thing to add a scope mount while still having iron sights for backup. I need to get a simple, but good, scope for it. I am planning on how to save up for an extra upper and the parts to convert it to 6.8 SPC or 7.62x39.

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:16 am

Hobie wrote:I believe that everybody should have an AR type rifle in 5.56. Exactly what you have that takes M16 magazines in 5.56 is a matter of personal opinion and not really important. However, I think it is important that you get one now.

+1 and they need at least one.....and maybe a spare!

i have an sp-1 car15 that dates to about 1975, and two from the late 80s/early 90s

and well, errr, a few more......never had a problem though i certainly wouldn't mind one of the new types. the little carbines for me is the go to gun if i had to defend myself tonight.

i do like the CAR configuration 308 as well, and the one i have is amazing. but the little lightweight carbine is like an extension of my arm.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:36 am

I've never had a problem with the original gas system or have I personally ever known anyone that had problems with it as it was first designed.

The biggest problem I have seen in rifles that use the step barrels is their tendency to become less accurate as the barrel heats up. As I understand the only reason for the step is that it serves as a place to mount a grenade launcher. If I'm not going to mount the launcher I don't need a way to mount one and I don't need the handicap that comes with it. As far as I'm concerned as long as you stay away from that step barrel, everything else is OK.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:38 am

Hey Mike another one to check out if you're looking for something very small and light is the FN PS 90. I put a bunc of mags through one a couple summers ago. Talk about a litte evil demon. Points very naturally (for me) and those little rounds really tear the snot out of stuff.
Those 50 round mags are something else, though we're only allowed to have 30 rounders here in OH.

This one has been on my short list for awhile the only reason I haven't bought one is the whole commitment to another cartridge and stack of spare mags.

That's what I really love about the ARs and AKs. Magazines are everywhere and cheap.

jb

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:48 am

Mike - I have 7 LWRC piston carbines in the safe. We used them for 2 years and they have fired 3500 rounds each. They have 3 position switches and they shoot fast and get hot! Not one of them was ever cleaned, just wiped off. One of them had short feeding with a light bolt close and another failed to lock open one time. They all got a cleaning and 200 more rounds each without a failure. I am not an AR guy - I like them but don't know a lot about the differences as I just don't have that much interest. However, I must say the LWRC's have worked better than expected and from various feedback I have gotten they are as good as any and better than most brands others have told me personal experiences about. On features and price alone I would have looked at Ruger and Sig Sauer, but LWRC got a contract. With that in mind, I have a S&W M&P 15 standard that cost just over $500. I've put 1000 rounds through it (it has a 2 postition switch). It is under moa accurate at 100 yds and hasnt hiccupped. I cleaned this one once at 250 rounds. It is due for another one. Obviously, this is a g-i system not a piston. Works good but gets dirtier. Good luck picking!

veeman · Post by **veeman** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:08 am

My only semi auto is an M1 Garand. Next one will likely be a M1 Carbine.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:22 am

My thoughts lie along the lines of an AK type, possibly using the 5.56 NATO even though the old 7.62X39 has more umph out to 300 yards or so.

The direct gas impingement is a negative to me (not specifically for me, but in general use by those around me), in that it requires quite a bit more maintenance and is the single biggest factor of the AR's not being a good shoot and throw under the log type gun.

That being said, the newer versions using the HK416 short stroke gas piston design on the AR's turns that all around.

The only reason I can see using the 5.56 cartridge though, is for availability in a S*TF social scenerio and if domestic. The old 7.62 is just as readily available commercially right now and cheaper. My last inventory count showed enough of tins of both to burn out barrels so parts availabilty might have something to do with the decision.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:33 am

Rusty wrote:The biggest problem I have seen in rifles that use the step barrels is their tendency to become less accurate as the barrel heats up. As I understand the only reason for the step is that it serves as a place to mount a grenade launcher.

Yep. When I bought a "Colt Target Sporter" (no evil bayonet lug), I took off the handguards, and the barrel was the hourglass-shaped one that is inaccurate, but allows grenade launcher mounting...

I ordered an accurate replacement barrel, and my non-gun-owning friends at work were shocked when it came in the mail, labeled "Bushmaster barrel, heavy machine-gun type"; as if the anti-gun nuts don't have enough to get freaked out about - the terminology we use is strange...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:47 am

Well, Y'all know which way I went with Erma.

No Gas system and 7.62 NATO: (PTR 91-GI/HK 91 Para) with collapsing stock.

Yes, she's heavier, but I can take a knee and ring a 12" gong @ 300m all day with just the irons... and 600m with glass is not too far of a stretch.

Plus, with no gas system I'm not stressed about shooting corrosive (or BP for that matter....)

Mags are about $1/ea. I bought 8 mags, 4 dual mag pouches, an HK G3 cleaning kit, and a MOLLE vest for the pouches all for less than $30.

It eats any .308 ammo you may happen to find without needing to adjust anything, from MilSpec to Federal Low Recoil soft point, so it is also a totally viable hunting gun too (5 rnd mags are available)

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:12 am

Hobie wrote:I believe that everybody should have an AR type rifle in 5.56. Exactly what you have that takes M16 magazines in 5.56 is a matter of personal opinion and not really important. However, I think it is important that you get one now.

Yepper, Praise the Lord and pass the ammo

Like my Bushy M4

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:23 am

Mike,
Dude I know how you are! (you want quality and probably like me(or I was)want overkill.
You want something built like a tank and does everything but fix you dinner

Lets put it this way(don't see you buying a Craftsman chainsaw but I do a Pro Stihl saw.

Mike----One thing as I age is I am starting to view tradeoffs a lot more.
What I mean is (what am I really going to be doing with this gun??)

I was always overkill on stuff.
I got Colt AR's (I mean the Match Comp ARs)--ya they are nice guns.
I got AK47's----yep they are nice,have some good things/bad things
I got SKS's----Not bad for just in case gotta grab something
I got a Ruger Mini too----its ok
I have to say----Each person requires different things.
I have found that after all these guns/models/cost etc.
Isn't it funny the gun I have found that kicks all my others in the a## is a inexpensive kel-Tec
Why?????/
Well,the SU16-C is built like a tank(it's barrel is at least as heavy as a Ruger Mini-14)its accurate
The gun has an extremely overkill AR15 bolt(heavier than my comp Colts)
The gun has the operating design of the AK47(it will shoot a shoe if you can stuff it in it)
It has Everything I want NOW in a gun(cause I am carrying one EVERYDAY(2-3hrs)not sitting home at my old place just guessing???
The gun has the use of the polymers where they need to be and the steel where it needs to be.(people use to laugh about Glock too)

It's light (in the 4LB range) Where in the HE## can you get a gun with all this in the 4LB range

It folds right now and unfolds right now.(fit it in a 2foot bag)and shoot it WHILE FOLDED out of that 2 foot bag.
Yes, Its shoots FOLDED.
It more accurate than my Ruger/AK47/SKS and not really that much behind my Colts(about 7 tenths of an inch behind)
If it shoots 10,000 rds (which I have absolutely no doubt)I will take that trade off for all its other attributes.

For me-------carrying a 4lb accurate/foldable/tough AR/AK hybrid is far my best choice(price is not even factored in)

Hate to say it----but Kel-Tec is thinking out of the box and coming up with stuff that others have not had a dream about.
But that is just my thought process.
All I know is I have changed(a ton) in what I view as what I need)
and a 4LB AR/AK hybrid shooting 53gr ballistic tips at 3200+fps(works well)
Good luck!

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:35 am

Thanks for the info on the Kel-tec, I always wondered about that one.
Might be in the future for me.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:37 pm

My AR crazy buddy used to recommend sticking with ABC ARs: Armalite, Bushmaster and Colt. 10-15 years ago he added D to the list with DPMS. Recently he built a 6.8SPC using mainly Stag components IIRC and has had no issues.

I only had one "failure" with my issued M4. I volunteered to do the ammo burn off after an FTX (can't bring any back or we won't get as much for the next exercise

) which came to about 800 rounds of blanks. Doing mag dumps as fast as possible on burst led to feed issues for the last few mags but as dirty as blanks are, I didn't see it as a problem.

I've assembled a couple of civilian ARs (5.56 and 9mm) that were cantankerous but the problems were mag related (5.56) and a poor conversion (9mm that took STEn mags).

I'm to the point that I want to get back into the AR and one thing I'm looking at is a piston conversion kit. The complete kit is around $300 but even buying/building a DI and converting it would be cheaper than buying a built piston driven weapon. At least it was when I started pricing things out a while back. The upside (IMO) is if I didn't like the piston system I could convert it back to DI and sell the kit.

Moving past the AR series, the options are wide open depending on your budget. In the sub-$500 range are the 7.62 AKs and the 5.45 AKs (my preference). The 5.56 AKs will run a little (?) more and don't have the same surplus mag availability as the 7.62/5.45 series (at least they didn't when I was looking several years ago). An AK (especially the 7.62) is never going to be as inherently accurate as an AR. The Soviet standard for accuracy with the 7.62 AK was a 6" group at 100m. Understand and accept that and you'll be a lot happier than someone expecting it to be a bug hole, varmint class shooter.

If you want to stick with the 5.56, the Daewoos are good (spare parts are drying up from what I have heard over the past 10 years though), the FNC is an option (fragile firing pins are the weak link) as is the Galil from Century (my second place pick if an AR is not wanted). Then there's the Valmet which is an AK/AR hybrid but SPENDY!

Moving to .308 my preference is the FAL and then the HK/CETME. I have yet to fire an M1A so I can't comment.

The SCAR, etc are just too rich for my blood. I simply can not understand where the major improvement is to justify the stupefying (IMO) price.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:42 pm

Yeah, thats why I have spare parts, the gas piston operating rod being the main concern, but I have an extra.

edwardyoung · Post by **edwardyoung** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:59 pm

I have an Armalite AR180-B. Any opinions on these? I traded a CZ-97B for it that I had $300 in. I didn't know anything about them, except that it was made by Armalite and took AR mags. I didn't figure I could go wrong. Jeff Quinn liked the one he reviewed. That was good enough for me. Thanks

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:41 pm

Thanks guys. Lots of great info here. Here is what I chose: the LMT CQBPS16. Basically an M4 variant, with gas piston system. This rifle even came with a torque wrench to tighten bolts after disassembly I liked the barrel (not the hour glas version) but a straight heavy 16" barrel. The upper is monolithic quad rail so nothing to rattle. The stock is collapsable and has a very comfortable shape for check weld. Came with an extra 5 mags. I mounted my surefire scout light on the right rail with rail guards installed on left, right, lower rails. On top is an EOTech sight with pop up front and rear sights made by Yankee hill. Of the 7 AR platforms I have owned, this one feels the best of all of them. 200 rounds down range, out of the box with no FTF. Accuracy is top notch. Needless to say I'm very pleased. I will be looking for some ground hogs this spring with this one.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:43 pm

Grats Mike, pics?

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:17 pm

Pitchy, I will get them posted. Took some but have to get them transferred

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:25 pm

Pitchy wrote:Grats Mike, pics?

rjohns94 wrote:Pitchy, I will get them posted. Took some but have to get them transferred

7 minutes is enough time. Where are the pics?

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:20 pm

I agree with Hobie, everyone should have an AR and 4 30 rd mags. As he said get it now! And I also feel you should get an AK-47 or AK-74, just in case your AR ever stops, the AK won't. And they cost a lot less. God Bless.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:53 pm

Sounds like a great gun and will suit your needs Mike!
Congrats!

Meeteetse · Post by **Meeteetse** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:27 pm

I go against the grain on this one. There is nothing wrong with the AR type rifles but they are not of my generation. I grew up in the M1/M14 era and I still like them. Are there hundreds of add-on parts and accessories available for them. NO, but I don't own them because of what they need. I own my guns because of what they can do for me. Accordingly I own a M1A Springfield Scout (.308) and two Ruger Mini-14 (.223) and they are just fine. They all operate in the same basic way and they all shoot very well. The mags are more expensive but I have been doing this for a while and have all I need. Each month I gather more ammo and I practice. What could be better than that?

kevin in nh · Post by **kevin in nh** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:17 am

I have had as many as 8 AR-15....SP-1, H-Bars, Bushmaster, Beowolf 50, Colt Sporter 7.62 all DI but my favorite AR type is the SIG 556 Classic....I don't need rails etc and it shoots great......Folding stock, flat top and no buffer ping every time I touch off......for AKs the Henderson Defense 5.45, and 7.62 are great shooters....I have 2 Polish underfolders that BOTH had to go back to Century as neither worked, but do now but the most rugged is the Tantel and the AKs are much easier to keep clean esp with corrosive 5.45 ammo
The 762x39 is a more potent round, but the 5.56 is here to stay....love it or hate it....I still feel we (USA) need to field a better round as past and current experience in Afganistan shows the problems with the 5.56

Bulgarian AK-74

Tantel and Romanian AK-47

mike@nds · Post by **mike@nds** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:46 am

kevin in nh wrote:I have had as many as 8 AR-15....SP-1, H-Bars, Bushmaster, Beowolf 50, Colt Sporter 7.62 all DI but my favorite AR type is the SIG 556 Classic....I don't need rails etc and it shoots great......Folding stock, flat top and no buffer ping every time I touch off......for AKs the Henderson Defense 5.45, and 7.62 are great shooters....I have 2 Polish underfolders that BOTH had to go back to Century as neither worked, but do now but the most rugged is the Tantel and the AKs are much easier to keep clean esp with corrosive 5.45 ammo
The 762x39 is a more potent round, but the 5.56 is here to stay....love it or hate it....I still feel we (USA) need to field a better round as past and current experience in Afganistan shows the problems with the 5.56

Bulgarian AK-74

Tantel and Romanian AK-47

Nice rifles, are you running my receivers?

As far as AR's go:

lots of lube !!!

and good mags will take care of any reliabity issues.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:17 am

Deleted

deafrn · Post by **deafrn** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:21 am

I don't care for semi auto long arms, but understand the reason why everyone should have at least one that will be relatively easy to feed and fix. So-o-o...

Daniel Defense M4v3. The best general-purpose AR I have had to date.

kevin in nh · Post by **kevin in nh** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:00 am

mike@nds wrote:
kevin in nh wrote:I have had as many as 8 AR-15....SP-1, H-Bars, Bushmaster, Beowolf 50, Colt Sporter 7.62 all DI but my favorite AR type is the SIG 556 Classic....I don't need rails etc and it shoots great......Folding stock, flat top and no buffer ping every time I touch off......for AKs the Henderson Defense 5.45, and 7.62 are great shooters....I have 2 Polish underfolders that BOTH had to go back to Century as neither worked, but do now but the most rugged is the Tantel and the AKs are much easier to keep clean esp with corrosive 5.45 ammo
The 762x39 is a more potent round, but the 5.56 is here to stay....love it or hate it....I still feel we (USA) need to field a better round as past and current experience in Afganistan shows the problems with the 5.56

Bulgarian AK-74

Tantel and Romanian AK-47

Nice rifles, are you running my receivers?

As far as AR's go:

lots of lube !!!

and good mags will take care of any reliabity issues.

The ones you see all have NDS.....the 2 polish underfolders have Global.....they came back with Global but both work fine......but NDS are to me the best and work like a watch.....no hick-ups with these rifles

jcw · Post by **jcw** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:19 pm

Mescalero wrote:I have a Daewoo AR 100,
it is 3 times the gun my CAR 15 is.
Ask Buffalo Boy, he had one and sold it; been kicking himself ever since.

Had the AR 100 and traded it for a Garand. Should have never used it for trading material.

Chris83716 · Post by **Chris83716** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:35 pm

M4's made by Windham Weaponry are on sale next week at Cabelas. Windham is run by the former owner and employees of Bushmaster that stayed in Maine. They looked good enough for me to buy one.

Chris

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:54 pm

jcw,
I guess only those who have had one really know what they are.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:09 pm

LMT is a very solid choice. Great stuff

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:09 pm

2ndovc wrote:Only cleaned the gas tube twice.

Cleaning the gas tube isn't even a user maintenance requirement. It's an armorers job if it gets that bad. If it won't become plugged with thousands of rounds of blanks through a barrel completely sealed by a blank adapter that forces all the dirty blank gases through the tube, it won't plug up period.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:19 pm

sore shoulder wrote:
2ndovc wrote:Only cleaned the gas tube twice.
Cleaning the gas tube isn't even a user maintenance requirement. It's an armorers job if it gets that bad. If it won't become plugged with thousands of rounds of blanks through a barrel completely sealed by a blank adapter that forces all the dirty blank gases through the tube, it won't plug up period.

What WILL plug up a gas tube is a constant/regular diet of .22 LR RNL through a conversion bolt.

Lead & wax & carbon ... bleah.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:21 pm

I make it a point to shoot some standard .223 after using the .22LR conversion unit in mine. The idea is that this will blow out the gas tube.... I don't know if it does or not, but so far so good

Oh, and congrats Mike on your purchase!! Nice rig.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:46 pm

I've never been able to really get into the AR-15 platform, or the
223 round. I'm not a varmint humter, where I could see the 223
as a viable round. I can't use it to hunt deer, so it would be strictly
a recreational shooter. I do have some access to inexpensive or
free 223 brass, but it's not tempting enough to go out and buy
an expensive rifle for!! LOL!

I'd get another SKS. The 7.62 X 39 round is plentiful and cheap, although
whether or not it's cheaper than 223 right now is questionable. It is more
powerful, though. The AR-15 has a higher practical rate of fire, and you can put
LOTS more (expensive!) gadgets on it, but I can buy at least 2 or 3 decent
SKS rifles for the price of one good AR-15.

You pays your money and takes your chances.

-Stretch

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:21 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:
2ndovc wrote:Only cleaned the gas tube twice.
Cleaning the gas tube isn't even a user maintenance requirement. It's an armorers job if it gets that bad. If it won't become plugged with thousands of rounds of blanks through a barrel completely sealed by a blank adapter that forces all the dirty blank gases through the tube, it won't plug up period.
What WILL plug up a gas tube is a constant/regular diet of .22 LR RNL through a conversion bolt.

Lead & wax & carbon ... bleah.

And of course there is always the exception to the rule. However the exception doesn't negate the rule.

I suppose I shouldn't have said "...nothing will."

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:38 pm

I bought 3000 rounds of 7.62 x 54 ammo real cheap and
got a cheap 91/30 to shoot them but I would like a semi auto
to shoot them. I have heard there are some miilitary semi autos that shoot them Anyone know what they are ?

Otherwise I like the Saiga for semi auto for .308 cuz it is
cheap. Or I could get it in 762x38 ammo version.

Of course if I have to shoot puny bullets I would get the
Keltec.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:32 pm

preventec47 wrote:I bought 3000 rounds of 7.62 x 54 ammo real cheap and
got a cheap 91/30 to shoot them but I would like a semi auto
to shoot them. I have heard there are some miilitary semi autos that shoot them Anyone know what they are ?...

None are cheap.

There are the SVD clones and the PSL clones, but they are near unobtanium.

There is a new gun out from MOVP of Russia called the VEPR that runs for about $950 (JGsales) but I think it uses proprietary 5rd mags and not the 10+ rd SVD/PSL mags...