what caliber in a Henry?

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:46 pm

My wife has decided that we need to get a Henry levergun

I'm decidng on a caliber. What do y'all think is the more versatile caliber; .357 Magnum or 30/30? It would be used for plinking, as a ranch gun, and possibly to hunt coyotes and maybe hogs or even deer.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:01 am

Personally, I think the .30-30 has all the versatility a working gun needs.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:16 am

The 30/30 has wonderful versatility if you are a reloader. But if you are using commercial the versatility nod goes to the .357 because you can get such a variety of loads, from nice little 38s for plinking to hefty 357 loads for hunting. The 357 is a lotta fun in one package, and the 30/30 is too if you can load it with pleasant plinking loads (which can be cast or jacketed).

86er · Post by **86er** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:56 am

In the Henry's, the 357 is a handier gun as far as weight, etc...

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:15 am

I was kind of leaning towards the 30-30 because of one of Paco's articles here. There are so many loads for the 30-30. I was trying to get some good data on the practical range of the .357 in a rifle, too. Everything I find seems to be based on a revolver. Does anyone know what kind of drop a .357 has at distances over 200 yards out of a rifle? I suspect it would drop like a stone at those distances.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:03 am

If you're buying factory ammo to plink, .357 is the most cost-effective center-fire by far.
They make some nice hot loads with 180 gr. 1400 fps that should handle deer inside of 100 yds.

.30-30 is of course a much more versatile load and very wise if you're going to reload.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:28 am

Mark,

Has your wife actually held and shouldered a Henry? They are VERY heavy rifles for the size of them. The one I hefted, a .45 Colt with an octagon barrel was in the 9 pound range ... empty.
The 30-30 and .357 use the same receiver as far as I know and are pretty close to the same weight.
My guess is if you let her buy a Henry, you'll be gun bearer.

As for versatility the .357 from a rifle is a totally different proposition than a handgun. Lots of ammo choices from the factories and if you hand load there's no end to them.
Just because I've used them for so long and being old and stuck in my ways, I'd suggest the 30-30. Quite a few ammo choices from 130 or so up to 170 and again if you hand load there's a lot more.

Joe

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:33 am

She has never held and shouldered one. I have, and they really are heavy. The 30-30 is over a pound lighter according to Henry, plus the blued model comes with XS ghost rings. It's also cheaper to buy. In a gun as heavy as the Big Boy, a .44 mag probably would have manageable recoil but I don't know as much about the .44 as I do the .357. I have a GP100, so I'm familiar with the .357.

Most opinions so far are favoring the 30-30. I guess it just plain has a longer range than any handgun cartridge.

86er · Post by **86er** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:41 am

In a 30-30 you are realistically going to get around 2000 fps with a 20" bbl using 170's. That would drop 4 inches at 150 yds and 12 inches at 200 yds if sighted in dead on at 100 yds. A 158gr 357 can be pushed to 2000 fps from the same 20" of barrel and if sighted in dead on at 100 yds is only 3/4 inch lower at 150 and 2.25" lower at 200. If you use 150's in the 30-30 you are going to get 2200 fps from a 20" and see 1 inch less drop than the 357-158 at 150 yds and about 4.25" less drop at 200 yds. Frankly, neither has a whole lot of energy or velocity at 200 yds and the bullets start to stray drastically from the performance they are intended to produce. I personally consider both cartridges maxed out at 150 yds and maybe 175 yds if the stars lined up just right.

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:51 am

azmark wrote:Most opinions so far are favoring the 30-30. I guess it just plain has a longer range than any handgun cartridge.

Well yeah. Everything is a compromise -- you have to figure out what characteristics are most important to you (and her). Before I put any money on something where the wife's use is important I'd get her to a gun show or a good gun store where both old and new are available and let her handle a batch of different rifles. Something will "talk" to her. And it will be more expensive than you were planning on

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:21 pm

I'd also recommend the .30-30 Henry, as (beside the cartridge reasons already posted) it's basically a new Marlin 336 w/o Marlin's latest issues; and LOTS lighter than a .357 FatBoy.....

.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:25 pm

Frankly, and I didn't mention it earlier as I've been lambasted for stating my opinions about Henrys so much... I'd rather buy a new Marlin 336, even with the hit or miss aspect in their quality over a Henry. For a hunting gun, recoil is a non-issue. I cannot remember a single instance of felt recoil in the aftermath of a hunt. I do however, remember the weight of luggin' a heavy rifle around after a day of an "unsuccessful" hunt... if there actually is such a thing!

However, a used Marlin has a lot of appeal also. They can be found inexpensively, in good condition and are a proven, reliable design. My next project will either be an 1885 (HiWall), in .32-40 or .45Colt or a Marlin in .32-40 or .38-55. Once my 6 Winchester 94s are done of course... wait, didn't I say that before I started on the 1894 project?

I really need to find out about a lathe or mill... I hate waiting for parts to be built by someone else... Dern budgetary constraints!

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:03 pm

Griff wrote:Frankly, and I didn't mention it earlier as I've been lambasted for stating my opinions about Henrys so much... I'd rather buy a new Marlin 336, even with the hit or miss aspect in their quality over a Henry. For a hunting gun, recoil is a non-issue. I cannot remember a single instance of felt recoil in the aftermath of a hunt. I do however, remember the weight of luggin' a heavy rifle around after a day of an "unsuccessful" hunt... if there actually is such a thing!

However, a used Marlin has a lot of appeal also. They can be found inexpensively, in good condition and are a proven, reliable design. My next project will either be an 1885 (HiWall), in .32-40 or .45Colt or a Marlin in .32-40 or .38-55. Once my 6 Winchester 94s are done of course... wait, didn't I say that before I started on the 1894 project?

I really need to find out about a lathe or mill... I hate waiting for parts to be built by someone else... Dern budgetary constraints!

This place is all about facts.....AND OPINIONS. I welcome all ......even if I dont always agree with things some people say. Its always good to get a fresh and different prospective now and then.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:09 pm

The above opinions are ALL NONSENSE.

You need both.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:17 pm

2571 wrote:The above opinions are ALL NONSENSE.

You need both.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:45 pm

Personally, and I'm serious about this, unless your wife has the upper body of Brunhilda forget the Henry. She might like the looks of it, but that will end about half hour after she starts carrying it.

Look for a nice gently used Marlin 336T in 30-30. Slimmer and trimmer than the normal pistol gripped pregnant ones and easier to handle ... in my opinion any way.
Or a nice used Rossi 92 or Marlin 1894 in .357.
Or both.
More than likely with some searching you could possibly buy both with what the Henry alone would cost. Twice the fun.

Joe

GoatGuy · Post by **GoatGuy** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:50 pm

J Miller wrote:Personally, and I'm serious about this, unless your wife has the upper body of Brunhilda forget the Henry. She might like the looks of it, but that will end about half hour after she starts carrying it.

Look for a nice gently used Marlin 336T in 30-30. Slimmer and trimmer than the normal pistol gripped pregnant ones and easier to handle ... in my opinion any way.
Or a nice used Rossi 92 or Marlin 1894 in .357.
Or both.
More than likely with some searching you could possibly buy both with what the Henry alone would cost. Twice the fun.

Joe

Plus 1. I concur with Joe.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:40 pm

86er wrote:In a 30-30 you are realistically going to get around 2000 fps with a 20" bbl using 170's. That would drop 4 inches at 150 yds and 12 inches at 200 yds if sighted in dead on at 100 yds. A 158gr 357 can be pushed to 2000 fps from the same 20" of barrel and if sighted in dead on at 100 yds is only 3/4 inch lower at 150 and 2.25" lower at 200.

Hopefully you meant 3/4" lower than the 30cal 170gr at 150 and 2.25" lower than the 30cal 170gr at 200. As I read it directly, it sounded like "lower" was referring to "if sighted in dead on at 100 yds". It's obvious to most but it confused me initially.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Henry in the steel round barrel(20") model in 30-30
Weight-----------7.0lbs
That's the one!

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:52 pm

Hey mark

I'm just up the road, literally, south of Sierra Vista. The .357 is the better plinker. And it would be great for coyotes and javelina too (ur shots on those critters down here are liable to be about 25 yards). But for deer hunting i'd opt for the .30-30, with the hornady leverevolution stuff you can shoot out to 225/250 or so if you scope it. I took a muley at 180 this year near Elfrida. Most folks wont reccomend a 357 past 100 yards for deer.

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:18 am

Ving-thorr,

I might never hunt deer, but never say never, you know? I would be more likely to shoot coyotes or javelina. I've heard we have feral hogs which interests me somewhat. By far, most shooting would be in Hunter canyon killing tin cans and milk jugs.

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:24 am

I hunt feral cans in hunter too, there or copper glance on hereford rd. I'd definately reccomend the 357 then, you can buy or reload 38 special ammo for real cheap! I've never seen or heard of feral hogs down here. Did you see the picture of the jaguar spotted down here a few weeks ago?

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:29 am

Here it is if you havent already seen it.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:27 am

86er wrote:In a 30-30 you are realistically going to get around 2000 fps with a 20" bbl using 170's. That would drop 4 inches at 150 yds and 12 inches at 200 yds if sighted in dead on at 100 yds. A 158gr 357 can be pushed to 2000 fps from the same 20" of barrel and if sighted in dead on at 100 yds is only 3/4 inch lower at 150 and 2.25" lower at 200. If you use 150's in the 30-30 you are going to get 2200 fps from a 20" and see 1 inch less drop than the 357-158 at 150 yds and about 4.25" less drop at 200 yds. Frankly, neither has a whole lot of energy or velocity at 200 yds and the bullets start to stray drastically from the performance they are intended to produce. I personally consider both cartridges maxed out at 150 yds and maybe 175 yds if the stars lined up just right.

86er
What load data are you getting 2000 from? According to Hodgdons web site, a bit under 1800 is tops from a rifle. Not sure what barrel length they use but here's their data.

I put the top vel load in bold. I agree the 357 would be a good gun, but my personal feeling is 100yds tops from the 357. Personally, for deer OR hogs, go with the 30-30. If you get a cheap lee loading setup (if you do not reload already) you could easily load it with some 130gr flat point bullets and really extend your range for taking the yotes. Hodgdons data lists those at nearly 2700fps. That would flatten that first 150yds really nicely.

158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H4227 .357" 1.580" 14.5 1578 34,600 CUP 16.0 1668 42,600 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon H110 .357" 1.580" 15.0 1619 28,600 CUP 16.7 1757 40,700 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.580" 8.0 1181 28,000 CUP 9.5 1427 41,900 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Universal .357" 1.580" 5.8 1059 32,100 CUP 6.3 1147 39,300 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HP-38 .357" 1.580" 6.2 1095 33,700 CUP 6.9 1214 40,000 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon Titegroup .357" 1.580" 5.4 1035 32,600 CUP 6.1 1184 41,900 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR IMR 4227 .357" 1.580" 14.5 1578 34,600 CUP 16.0 1668 42,600 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 4756 .357" 1.580" 5.0 976 17,500 PSI 6.5 1216 29,900 PSI
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR SR 7625 .357" 1.580" 4.3 892 16,700 PSI 5.8 1145 29,600 PSI
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR PB .357" 1.580" 3.7 827 18,800 PSI 4.9 1064 31,700 PSI
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR 700-X .357" 1.580" 4.5 1019 21,900 PSI 5.7 1219 31,200 PSI
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon H4227 .358" 1.610" 10.5 1288 15,400 CUP 11.5 1382 17,800 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .358" 1.610" 6.0 1083 12,900 CUP 7.0 1224 15,500 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon Universal .358" 1.610" 5.5 1214 23,300 CUP 6.7 1380 34,600 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon HP-38 .358" 1.610" 3.5 901 8,400 CUP 4.5 1059 16,200 CUP
158 GR. LSWC Hodgdon Titegroup .358" 1.610" 4.5 1157 19,300 CUP 5.0 1220 24,900 CUP

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:38 am

357 Mag, Starline case

158 gr JFP (Speer) - WSPM primer - 18g LG, 1988 fps (16.5" Win 94)

158gr JFP (Speer) - WSMP primer - 15.5gr 2400, 1821 (16.5" Win 94)

That's my rifle - start lower and work up in yours. My chronograph does not lie. Everything works fine and there is no sign of being excessive.

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:28 pm

86er is the man!

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:58 pm

86er wrote:357 Mag, Starline case

158 gr JFP (Speer) - WSPM primer - 18g LG, 1988 fps (16.5" Win 94)

158gr JFP (Speer) - WSMP primer - 15.5gr 2400, 1821 (16.5" Win 94)

That's my rifle - start lower and work up in yours. My chronograph does not lie. Everything works fine and there is no sign of being excessive.

Wow, impressive. From a 16'5" barrel too, what manual was that from? Just curious. Are those specifically rifle loads, or pistol as well? The one load (2400) is more on par with the Hodgdons data at 1821fps.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:16 pm

Data from LoadData with input as I entered, and specifically for rifle only! The velocity that the program spit out is actually 80 fps less with one load and 35 fps more with the other, but close to what I actually got.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:34 pm

To the OP, I bought my wife a Henry 22 youth model several years ago for her birthday, she has really enjoyed the little plinker. If someday she decides she wants something a bit more, I think a .357 carbine will be the next step.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:55 pm

86er wrote:Data from LoadData with input as I entered, and specifically for rifle only! The velocity that the program spit out is actually 80 fps less with one load and 35 fps more with the other, but close to what I actually got.

Thanks

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Henrys are fine firearms. Very solid. However as others have already stated they are very heavy in the larger calibers. I have shot the Big Boy in 45Colt and own a 22 magnum frontier model. If you go with the 30-30 I would get it in a old Marlin 336 or 94 Winchester. If you go with the 357 I would get it in a 92 Winchester. If it will serve as your only centerfire rifle I would suggest the 30-30. If you do decide on the 30-30 Federal makes some 125 grain loads that in my mind would serve as a good personal defense and varmint round should you choose to use it for either role.

RustyJr

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:11 pm

I'm trying to talk her into another brand to save some coin. I like Marlins, and Rossi makes a decent model 92 (or Rio Grande in 30-30). The Henry will likely run me $600 and I'm having trouble finding one anyway. Nobody in town has one, Davidson's and Bud's don't have them either.

ving-thorr · Post by **ving-thorr** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:53 am

Hey Mark, I believe I've seen them at Sportsmans Wharehouse in Tucson. But down here I only ever see the 22s.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:05 am

for what your talking about, I think you'd like the .357. Great performance on jugs and cans. I think the moderate velocity helps because the bullet spends more time in the jug. When I shot jugs and cans with the 30-30, results were disappointing. More velocity and the bullets ripped right through without much visual effect. But I got some great explosions of water and sand with the .357.

And I don't like those little tiny holes in the targets. I'm a 35 caliber guy I guess. If you do the close-up hunting you'll be all right. If you want to go for distance, you'll lose velocity a lot faster with the .357 even if they start off the same at the muzzle, which they generally don't. The 30-30 is definitely more gun, just as yourself if that's what you want.

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:26 am

Update... It looks as though I've talked my wife into a Rossi Model 92. I'm looking at one in .45 Colt. It's much less expensive than a Henry, so it leaves money to get some factory ammo plus reloading materials. If anyone has some good recipes for .45 Colt in a levergun, please share. Paco has some, but I'm thinking about lower pressure loads also.

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:38 pm

Any particular reason you changed to the 45colt for the chambering? Just curious.

RustyJr

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:12 pm

She has said that she wants a .45 Colt. I suppose it's because it's a larger caliber. I could live with a .45.

I'm going to start working considerable overtime, so I can overlook price for the most part

. Since price is no longer #1, I'm wondering if any levergun is generally considered more accurate than others. I know caliber is a big part of the equation. Based on that factor, what would you guys/ladies want in a rifle?

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:04 pm

If you don't handload I would recommend a 44 Mag. Factory ammunition in my area is more available in 44 mag than in 45 colt as well as cheaper. Others may say otherwise but this has been my experiance after trying to find 45 colt ammunition for a friends Henry Big Boy. Ended up having to order it from Cabelas because there were no "hunting level" loads available locally.

RustyJr

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:10 pm

so SWMBO wants a .45C. That part of the discussion is over.

Next, cast or copper rounds? Makes no difference, just start her out at 11-1200 fps loads to build her confidence in her chosen smoke pole.

rimrock

azmark · Post by **azmark** » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:55 pm

Believe it or not, we've come to an agreement on caliber. We're going with a 30-30. We had to get on several wait lists, and we'll put in a special order with one of the LGS's if we can't get an ETA. The gun is really sweet looking; I love the ghost ring sights it comes with. I hope this works out. The factory is having trouble keeping up with demand as per their customer service.

If it turns out to take too long, I'll have to go with a Marlin.

Rifleman · Post by **Rifleman** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:33 am

azmark wrote:Believe it or not, we've come to an agreement on caliber. We're going with a 30-30.

Excellent! You'll not regret the cartridge choice.