.223 and Deer

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:19 pm

I didn't want to hijack Shooter's post of the lady's first deer, so I started this one. I have a question about shooting deer with a .223. I know that it'll work, as evident by the pic of Shooter's wife's first deer, but would there be a better bullet to use in this situation, other than a 55 gr. soft point? Perhaps a 60 or 70 grain solid copper or round nose design? Although I don't plan on hunting deer with one, I'd just like to know, 'cause I have a Handi Rifle in .223 (I have a 30-30 barrel for that!).

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:27 pm

.223 ain't a deer round any more than a 22 lr is, regaurdless of who might have killed one with it.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:29 pm

Too fast and light for my country, but yes it can kill. Stay away from any blades of grass.

Owen

86er · Post by **86er** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:38 pm

I've had many clients use a .223 on deer and hogs. Recently, a self proclaimed "long range shooter" named Jimmy shot two deer with me. One was 160 yards broadside and he got an exit using a 60 gr Nosler Partition, the deer dropped right there. The next with a different set-up was 270 yards head on. He shot it right in the heart with a 64 gr Gold Dot and it dropped right there. No exit on that one! Anyway, as usual precise shot placement makes all the difference in the world. The .223 diameter doesn't leave much of a hole for blood loss either entry or exit if it makes it. Tracking could prove difficult at best if the deer didnt fall within sight or short range. The best performance I have seen has come from 60 gr Nosler Partitions, 64 grain Gold Dots, Federal Premium and Winchester Power Points and 45 grain Ballistic Tips. I am not switching to .223 anytime soon and I don't recommend it to anyone but it has done the job too many times to ignore.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:42 pm

Might depend on how big the deer is?

Of all the deer I have read reports on following cutting up the performace of a 223 is as good as anything else, especially when you consider a bad shot from anything larger will fail just about as bad can be!

If I was offered a choice of two rifles one in 223 and one in .416somert with two rounds for a deer hunt, I would take the 223. Funny thing is, no one would question a .416 being used! Enyet it would most likely have a very tough bullet and without some practice difficult to shoot!

Dead is dead.

N.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:43 pm

I'm no expert (but I stayed in a Holiday Inn, once) If 25-20 and 32-20 and other "sub" standard calliber weapons were used for deer, and such, a .223 with a premium bullet should do the trick. Can't use anything less than .24 in Washington, so I'll never know.
http://www.google.com/search?q=eskimos+ ... 1I7GPEA_en
Seems like the .22 Hornet has a following, too.

hightime · Post by **hightime** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:53 pm

Of course if shot placement is right it will do the job, but I have had enough trouble getting a 270 through hazel brush to a deer standing thirty yards away. The bullet deflects and blows into fragments as it tries to get to target. A slow speed heavy bullet would have done the job. Like I said , It will kill , but the bullet has to get there first.

Owen

model55 · Post by **model55** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:01 pm

Has anyone tried the various Barnes bullets?

piller · Post by **piller** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:11 pm

If it is what you have and can shoot well, then it is apparently good enough under the right circumstances. I am not convinced that true brush cartridges exist as they are reputed to be. It seems to me that shooting through brush will deflect any bullet if the brush is thick enough or tough enough. The larger the bullet, the more it takes to deflect it, but enough brush could deflect anything. Would I use a .223 on deer? If that is all I had, then I would.

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:11 pm

I would agree with 86er's recommendation on the Nosler Partition. I haven't shot any deer with a 223 but if I were going to that would probably be the bullet I would choose. Ive considered using it on deer and hogs because the deer here in Florida are so small. In the end it all comes down to shot placement.

RustyJr

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:13 pm

KCSO wrote:.223 ain't a deer round any more than a 22 lr is, regaurdless of who might have killed one with it.

Neck shot or proper shot in the boiler room---------
62 gr TSX@3100fps(will do)and with pretty good results of what I have seen!

(gotta do your part)

http://www.triadtactical.com/Black-Hill ... 23N18.html

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:28 pm

.223 wasn't my first choice for her to use, but my .243 was too long for her and I wanted to be comfortable and confident with her shot. That is tons more important than caliber choice. I have, however, seen several deer taken with the .223, and never witnessed one being lost to it. I have seen plenty of lost deer to 30-06, .300 Win Mag, .270, etc., which are all deer killers undisputedly. It's more about confidence and shot placement than caliber. You can shoot a deer with just about anything, and bad shot placement will still leave you tracking it for hours at best, and a suffering wounded animal that you may never find at worst.

I would love for her to graduate to a .243 or even a .308 that I could load down if need be, but the gun she used was borrowed from a friend, and since he was generous enough to let her use it, I had no complaints and had every confidence that if she did her part, the caliber would do its part.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:40 pm

My 11 year old shoot his first deer(buck) this year with a Ruger compact 223. Broad side at eighty yards. Using a 55 gr game king. He hit it in the heart and it jumped up and ran 30 yards and tipped over. Bullet was was retrieved on the offside under the hide and wieghted 49.8 gr. It all depends on your hunting terrain. Thats all my friend hunts with. But he sits all day and never shoots over 100 yards. My mother in law has been shooting deer with a M1 carbine since the 70's . Double lung them and don't make it 100 yards. But she's shooting underr 75 yards most of the time. I want to move my son up to a 243 if he grows more by deer season, just for a better blood trail.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:55 pm

but I have had enough trouble getting a 270 through hazel brush to a deer standing thirty yards away. The bullet deflects and blows into fragments as it tries to get to target. A slow speed heavy bullet would have done the job.

not long ago we had a thread refuting this, the small fast bullets deflected less than the large slow bullets.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=36185

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:17 pm

Shooter I wouldnt change what she using it works If you dont think the bullet you using is up to the task change bullets dont change calibers flinching makes for bad shooting.
MT doesnt have any caliber restrictions for big game seen speed goats and deer killed with a 223 at distance too. Neither does Alaska at least for native people I see they use it from walrus to rabbits it must work ok. danny

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:24 pm

I have been surprised at how well the 223 is working on deer around here. Most people seem to use the Winchester Power Point bullet. I think it is a 64 grainer.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:42 pm

I usually reserve my .223 for dogs, coyotes, and jack rabbits.

There are better cartridges for deer hunting, but I don't look down my nose at the capabilities of the .223.

Having killed many critters with one, I am quite certain that any deer I might "need" would fall with a well placed shot from same.

tman · Post by **tman** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:02 pm

223 will kill the biggest deer in the woods. It is the standard millitary round for almost 40 years. If u know how to shoot, it will do the job. Less powerfull rounds have been killing deer since 1858{.44 henry rimfire flat} and before that .36 round balls.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:20 pm

Boy, I'm glad I didn't know for a fact that the .22 LR, .22 WRF and .22 WMR were not "deer cartridges.." theywould not be the ones I'd choose, necessarily, if there were others to pick from, but I would have had to go hungry a few times in my young life, if I hadn't relied on the little rimfires..

Unfortunately, the .223 and its ilk are disallowed under Wyoming law, as big game cartridges..

The late, great P.O. Ackley said and wrote, on several occasions, that his favorite caliber for deer, elk and antelope was the .220 Swift...

junkwrencher · Post by **junkwrencher** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:26 pm

Barnes X-bullet. Craig Boddington spoke on this subject and recommended keeping the shots at one-hundred yards and under for humane, quick kills, most loads in .223 with 50 grain bullets still have right at 1000ft/lbs.@ 100yrds. Shot placement.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:49 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:Ackley said and wrote, on several occasions, that his favorite caliber for deer, elk and antelope was the .220 Swift

He's not the only hunter of yore who had enough success with .22s on larger game to warrant writing about it. A few of the old African hunters tried the .22 Savage on game up to about 500 lb and found it viable but not ideal. The owner of GS Custom bullets (all copper jobs from South Africa) has taken deer sized antelope with his .22 bullets. My conclusion is that if a .22 bullet is tough enough, it will work.

ndcowboy · Post by **ndcowboy** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:59 am

I've shot a good dozen deer with a .223. They've been just as dead as ones shot with my 30-06, but there was way less meat damage with the .223.

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:11 am

I've repeated this story many times here over the years but it fits here once again. My friend Rob invited me to hunt deer at his grandfathers farm in CT. We drove from NC up 95 to a place near Old Saybrook. Prior to this invite I did not know Rob was a hunter. Upon arrival we went to the den. He took an old red/black plaid wool coat off the hook, a wool hat and some green woolrich overalls. He pulled a rifle from the old wooden gun cabinet and a box of ammo from the drawer below. We got some needed sleep. Early in the AM Rob and I were dressed and ready to go. He told me he was going to sit on his "stump" near the trail where the deer would come into the orchard and blueberry patch. I was to follow the tree line to the creek. Deer also crossed the creek to get to the orchard from the back side. We would meet at 10AM. At 10AM I headed to Rob's stump. When I got there I told him I saw some does but did not shoot. He said he shot a buck but didnt go look for it yet. I was surprised I didn't hear the shot because I was only 100 yards away. We followed the deer trail and looked under the apple trees. Here was an 8 point buck dead. There was no hole anywhere that I could see. I became interested in what rifle he was using. It was a Winchester from 1962 and the ammo was original Winchester 40 grain at 2000 fps. I was astonished and told Rob it was not a deer rifle. He was naive as this was his only interest, experience and education in hunting and his only firearm. He told me since he was 12 he has shot a buck every year from the same stump with the same rifle. The shots are 20-30 yards and he carefully shoots for the heart as his grandfather told him many years ago. I quickly realized that for Rob this in fact WAS a deer rifle! I have had a grand respect for the 22 Magnum ever since. Now put the .223 in it's place and you have amplified the lethality greatly as long as the shot placement remains the same.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:35 pm

86er wrote:I've repeated this story many times here over the years but it fits here once again. My friend Rob invited me to hunt deer at his grandfathers farm in CT. We drove from NC up 95 to a place near Old Saybrook. Prior to this invite I did not know Rob was a hunter. Upon arrival we went to the den. He took an old red/black plaid wool coat off the hook, a wool hat and some green woolrich overalls. He pulled a rifle from the old wooden gun cabinet and a box of ammo from the drawer below. We got some needed sleep. Early in the AM Rob and I were dressed and ready to go. He told me he was going to sit on his "stump" near the trail where the deer would come into the orchard and blueberry patch. I was to follow the tree line to the creek. Deer also crossed the creek to get to the orchard from the back side. We would meet at 10AM. At 10AM I headed to Rob's stump. When I got there I told him I saw some does but did not shoot. He said he shot a buck but didnt go look for it yet. I was surprised I didn't hear the shot because I was only 100 yards away. We followed the deer trail and looked under the apple trees. Here was an 8 point buck dead. There was no hole anywhere that I could see. I became interested in what rifle he was using. It was a Winchester from 1962 and the ammo was original Winchester 40 grain at 2000 fps. I was astonished and told Rob it was not a deer rifle. He was naive as this was his only interest, experience and education in hunting and his only firearm. He told me since he was 12 he has shot a buck every year from the same stump with the same rifle. The shots are 20-30 yards and he carefully shoots for the heart as his grandfather told him many years ago. I quickly realized that for Rob this in fact WAS a deer rifle! I have had a grand respect for the 22 Magnum ever since. Now put the .223 in it's place and you have amplified the lethality greatly as long as the shot placement remains the same.

Yep, I saw a fallow doe drop stone dead from a little Hornet once, the feller could shoot that dinky rifle just like a 22. Straight down it's ear hole at 75 yards or so.

The lady in the other post shot the right gun, the one she could shoot well.

N.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:24 pm

A couple of years ago I was in the Doc's waiting room and picked up an "Outdoor Life" magazine. There was a "retro" article in it that was a reprint of an article they had done years before introducing Remington's newest deer caliber... the .22-250. That's the way they marketed it to begin with.

I figure if a 5.56 will take a grown man, it should take a deer as well.

I also know a fellow in AK that uses one in a Ruger All Weather to take his annual caribou.

JB · Post by JB » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:16 pm

With the correct bullet the 22 centerfires will kill whitetails just fine, but I'd still prefer to see them as illegal for deer hunting. There's just too many morons that will shoot a deer in the shoulder with a fmj or hollowpoint varmint round. It's a shame to have to penalize some for others ignorance, but that's the way so many laws are.

stew71 · Post by **stew71** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:26 pm

.243 is the minimum here in California, so I have no dog in this hunt. That being said, I wouldn't use it. That's why I have a .243, a 30-30, a 30-40 Krag, etc.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:57 pm

My uncle Emilio had 11 kids. There was no buying enough meat to feed his family.

He killed literally hundreds of deer with his .22WMR, and I never saw him miss a shot.

One to the head.

Dead deer.

But, in hind-sight, those hill country deer, you'd have to kill 2 to even make a sandwich...

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:28 pm

Well, I know those little needleblowers will kill, but I believe they should be left to the expert marksman with the patience to wait for the perfect shot, the bad thing about this thread is it might get someone confused into thinking the .223 is a deer rifle, and it is not, even though it is legal in my state.

We have heard about all of the dead right there kills with it, but believe me, I have also heard of a whole bunch of stories about lost deer, by nimrods that shot them full of holes with the .223. And it takes more then just bullet placement, it takes a good bullet, and like I said an expert that picks the right bullet and places his shot perfectly can take a lot of deer with it, but I have also seen some terrible failures with some of the cheaper factory softpoints out there for the .223.

m.wun · Post by **m.wun** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:09 pm

I believe in California the law only requires " any center fire" as legal for deer.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:07 am

KCSO wrote:.223 ain't a deer round any more than a 22 lr is, regaurdless of who might have killed one with it.

Well, it makes about as much sense as the guys around here who feel like a 'levergun' for deer is too underpowered, because we can only use 'pistol' cartridge ones like .45 Colt, .44 Magnum, and .357 Magnum...

They wind up either getting a Handi-Rifle in .500 S&W (to be sure they have enough 'stopping power' for whitetail), or they just break the law and use a Browning semiauto in 7mm Remington Magnum (for fast 'follow-up' shots on running deer out at 'somewhere around 300-400 yards or so'...

).

I think like some others said above, ANY cartridge is potentially acceptable as a 'deer' round, IF THE HUNTER HAS THE SKILLS AND PATIENCE to use it appropriately. A Bowie knife would be a good 'deer' weapon, if one had the skill and patience to drop from a tree and slit the deer's throat! Running shots at deer out at unknown ranges are unethical, even with a 7mm Rem Mag, and most of the shots I've personally taken at deer (with a .44 Mag) would be inappropriate for a .223 or .32-20, or other 'controversial' cartridge, but there are definitely scenarios where those rounds (with proper BULLET construction, and proper placement) would be humane and appropriate.

The problem is getting the particular shooter, situation, and ammunition all in the same place and working together...!

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:53 am

Lastmohecken wrote:Well, I know those little needleblowers will kill, but I believe they should be left to the expert marksman with the patience to wait for the perfect shot, the bad thing about this thread is it might get someone confused into thinking the .223 is a deer rifle, and it is not, even though it is legal in my state.

We have heard about all of the dead right there kills with it, but believe me, I have also heard of a whole bunch of stories about lost deer, by nimrods that shot them full of holes with the .223. And it takes more then just bullet placement, it takes a good bullet, and like I said an expert that picks the right bullet and places his shot perfectly can take a lot of deer with it, but I have also seen some terrible failures with some of the cheaper factory softpoints out there for the .223.

This was my original question; what bullet would be better in a .223 if used on deer. I fully understand bullet placement and a sensible distance, and I too have heard the stories of Uncle Wade's brother in law that would only hunt Moose with a .22 LR, and filled his larder every year. And I didn't want to start a discussion on "ethical hunters" either. I would figger a .224", 50 gr. HPBT or V-Max bullet would not be good for shooting deer as the bullet would prolly blow up and not penetrate. I have other guns that I would use way before my .223 if I went huntin', just wondered about bullets...

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:35 pm

Dave wrote:I have been surprised at how well the 223 is working on deer around here. Most people seem to use the Winchester Power Point bullet. I think it is a 64 grainer.

I think there is test data out there. My understanding is that the 64 gr. Winchester PP is the bullet of choice for the CHP. I bought 1000 to load for my .223s as an all arounder.

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:14 pm

Sorry for my ignorance but what is CHP?

RustyJr

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:48 pm

mikld wrote:
Lastmohecken wrote:Well, I know those little needleblowers will kill, but I believe they should be left to the expert marksman with the patience to wait for the perfect shot, the bad thing about this thread is it might get someone confused into thinking the .223 is a deer rifle, and it is not, even though it is legal in my state.

We have heard about all of the dead right there kills with it, but believe me, I have also heard of a whole bunch of stories about lost deer, by nimrods that shot them full of holes with the .223. And it takes more then just bullet placement, it takes a good bullet, and like I said an expert that picks the right bullet and places his shot perfectly can take a lot of deer with it, but I have also seen some terrible failures with some of the cheaper factory softpoints out there for the .223.
This was my original question; what bullet would be better in a .223 if used on deer. I fully understand bullet placement and a sensible distance, and I too have heard the stories of Uncle Wade's brother in law that would only hunt Moose with a .22 LR, and filled his larder every year. And I didn't want to start a discussion on "ethical hunters" either. I would figger a .224", 50 gr. HPBT or V-Max bullet would not be good for shooting deer as the bullet would prolly blow up and not penetrate. I have other guns that I would use way before my .223 if I went huntin', just wondered about bullets...

Recently a bud of mine has been shootin' fox with me and his 22-250 using a 55grn BT type bullet. We have over many months had alot of funny things happen so he switched to a Sierra 55 gameking I think they are. A 55grn spitzer anyhow. Well in my opinion these bullets were failing, blowing up on legs or shoulders etc etc.
It took me a long time to convince him to try some 40grn BT's but finally he has. I pointed out how in my experience these seem to go in some and then explode. Experience from a 222 doing nearly 4000fps on them. The last fox's taken (6) have all gone straight down the longest being 230+yds. A couple have hit shoulder/leg bone and still gone in and popped. The audable report from the varmint is a crystal clear "pop" over the thump" we were getting.

I felt convinced that the longer heavier bullet was wanting to tumble just on the smell of the critter as it got close.

For me any fool can load the wrong bullet/ammo no matter what the cal, it's the aficionado
that gets it right.

No amount of legislation can rule out the resoursefullness of an idiot!

N.

JB · Post by JB » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:30 pm

RustyJr wrote:Sorry for my ignorance but what is CHP?

RustyJr

I'm assuming California Highway Patrol. Remember the old TV show CHiPs

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:47 pm

RustyJr wrote:Sorry for my ignorance but what is CHP?

RustyJr

Sorry about that, California Highway Patrol

BTW, if there are any CHP officers on the forum, I'd like to say that during my two sojourns I never met one that wasn't helpful and professional.

PS - If you load a 70 gr. bullet in the .223 you have a .22 HiPower. WHICH bullet can be an issue, just speaking in generalities here.

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:47 pm

No apology neccassary Hobie. And thanks.

RustyJr

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:54 pm

Deleted.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:42 pm

Ray wrote:I use a 16" barreled T/C .223 with 52gr. to 64gr. bullets for deer. These little bullets leaving the muzzle from 3100fps for the lighter ones to 2900fps for the heavier ones simply snatch the souls out of 100lb. to 200lb. deer on neck and armpit shots.

The opponents to using the .22 centerfires on deer will grant their use with patience and careful shot placement. My question to these folks is, where else do you plan to shoot a deer with any gun? The vitals are the only place that counts! A gut shot that misses a bleeding organ (heart/lung/liver/spleen) is a gut shot no matter what size bullet or speed.

Since a 60gr. .223" bullet moving at 2800fps. kills so quickly in my experiences, I tried a 125gr. Speer TNT .308" at 2900/3000fps. on undisturbed deer at good angles (broadside or slightly quartering away) and watched them run for a good ways.

There is a gentleman in our area that now uses a .204 Ruger with Hornady factory loaded 45 grain bullets on deer. He got the idea of trying it on deer after shooting through 3 groundhogs at one shot. He surmised that if it would shoot through 3 tough 20lb. animals lined up in a row and bury the bullet in rocky soil farther than a 4" knife blade would reach then it would do fine on small to medium deer.

Rev. Taylor once said that shooting through a deer's lungs is like shooting through bread and cheese!

What he said!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:28 pm

tman wrote:
Ray wrote:I use a 16" barreled T/C .223 with 52gr. to 64gr. bullets for deer. These little bullets leaving the muzzle from 3100fps for the lighter ones to 2900fps for the heavier ones simply snatch the souls out of 100lb. to 200lb. deer on neck and armpit shots.

The opponents to using the .22 centerfires on deer will grant their use with patience and careful shot placement. My question to these folks is, where else do you plan to shoot a deer with any gun? The vitals are the only place that counts! A gut shot that misses a bleeding organ (heart/lung/liver/spleen) is a gut shot no matter what size bullet or speed.

Since a 60gr. .223" bullet moving at 2800fps. kills so quickly in my experiences, I tried a 125gr. Speer TNT .308" at 2900/3000fps. on undisturbed deer at good angles (broadside or slightly quartering away) and watched them run for a good ways.

There is a gentleman in our area that now uses a .204 Ruger with Hornady factory loaded 45 grain bullets on deer. He got the idea of trying it on deer after shooting through 3 groundhogs at one shot. He surmised that if it would shoot through 3 tough 20lb. animals lined up in a row and bury the bullet in rocky soil farther than a 4" knife blade would reach then it would do fine on small to medium deer.

Rev. Taylor once said that shooting through a deer's lungs is like shooting through bread and cheese!
What he said!

I have been killing deer for over 40 years, and I have seen them killed with about everything, and I have also seen a lot of them run off and have to be tracked. Perfect shot placement is always the goal, but unless you do pass up a lot of shots, many times conditions are not perfect, and people take shots that end up being less then perfect but still get their deer.

But on the same token I have seen coyotes run off with a perfectly placed .223 softpoint (granted it was a cheap softpoint) right through the lungs, but I have never lost a coyote or hardly even seen one get out of my sight with any hit with my .308 with 180gr Winchester Silvertips.

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:17 am

Deer run off when hit with a 300 wby. and drop right now with a .243. It doesn't make the 243 a better choice or mean tha the 300 is inadequet. Some deer drop, some don't, regardless of what with,and how they are hit. Why, I don't know.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:29 am

JB wrote:
RustyJr wrote:Sorry for my ignorance but what is CHP?

RustyJr
I'm assuming California Highway Patrol. Remember the old TV show CHiPs

Down here they merged with the Santa Ana/Los Angeles Highway Safety Administration so they're now CHPS and SALHSA.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:54 am

I personally will only consider .25 calibers and above --- shooting humans in a battlefield situation is not the same as shooting a game animal

That said, i have pondered whether the heavier (69 - 75 grain) bullets currently in vogue with defense and LE applications might level the playing field somehow for someone who is bound and determined to use their 223/5.56 for deer

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:44 pm

The .223 is very popular around here (southern Missouri Ozarks).

In my .222 Remington (sic) I use 19.1 grain IMR4198 and the Sierra 63 grain Semi-spitzer.

I your afraid the little bullet may not make it through brush think, neither might the larger caliber. IF THERE IS NOT A CLEAR SHOT THE RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO IS TO NOT SHOOT AT ALL.

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:47 pm

not long ago we had a thread refuting this, the small fast bullets deflected less than the large slow bullets.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=36185[/quote]

The small caliber is less apt to hit the obstruction in the first place.

Ray · Post by **Ray** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:59 pm

deleted

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:35 am

When I had my Mini-14 I reloaded 70 grain sierras and they worked just fine on the pigs and Mouflon sheep here all shots under 100 yards. Wish I kept that rifle. I replaced it with a stainless Handi Rifle in .223 but it's 1 in 12 twist isn't conducive to accuracy with the 70 grainers. I think I'll give the 60 grain Partitions a try. The .223 is a popular goat round here in the islands but our goats are small maybe 80 pounds for an average billy.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:11 pm

I remember being asked to shoot some sheep in a forest if we saw them, we did. My bud had his 222 and me a 243. His 50grn bullet killed the sheep quicker than the ones I shot with the 243. His took a few steps and keeled over, mine were going double the distance! Two shot each, same outcome! Thick in wool too!

Nath.