We've talked about shooting stray dogs before...

[6pt-sika]

6pt-sika wrote:
I beg to differ !

Our "resident" Wyoming land and cattle baron has already said ANYTHING on his property will be shot . And it kinda gave one the sneaking suspicion that included humans as well !


Please quote chapter and verse... You sir, are entirely mistaken?

The horse folks I ain't as sure about !
While they "seem" to be decent people I dunno . But I can say this !!!!!!!

"IF" they shot and killed that little Border Terrier that we have in this house not a horse , cat , cow or dog on their property would be safe from me !

The kind of retaliation you're talking about would land you in jail or in the hospital around here, and that is if you were really lucky...

"If I were really lucky" leads me to take that as you saying you would , shoot me , run over me with your truck etc etc etc !

ANother blurb below from the resident cattle baron that leads me to believe .

The reality may sound harsh, but livestock still has legal priority in Wyoming, and more than a few "hobby" ranchers have found out the hard way, that we don't put up with trespassing, by humans or their dogs...

[madman4570]

I have neither the time, intention nor obligation to "interview" any new dog I see, and the same goes for the constant influx of new people into the area..
Their ignorance of our laws and mores is no excuse for what they may cause or allow to occur..
Someone once told me, "very often, knowledge feels like it leaves a bloody entrance wound.."

Here's your law!
§ 11-31-107 Running livestock; when killing authorized; liability to owner; exception.

Dogs running livestock against the wish of the owner of the livestock may be killed at once in cases where the livestock has been injured or is threatened with injury. The person killing any dog running livestock is not liable to the owner where the vicious character of the dog or the damage or danger of damage is shown.
When livestock is trespassing upon property the property owner may use dogs to drive and keep off livestock from the property.


Think it says(dog has to be running livestock---------------IN PROGRESS??

Not they were just on my land-------I don't have time to interview them!
You above have already posted it i(n print) ??
I have neither the time, intention nor obligation to "interview" any new dog I see, and the same goes for the constant influx of new people into the area..
Their ignorance of our laws and mores is no excuse for what they may cause or allow to occur..
Someone once told me, "very often, knowledge feels like it leaves a bloody entrance wound.."

Might be mistaken a little wes-----??
Like Buck said, in WY you can shoot stray dogs on your property, no questions asked.

[Griff]

I typed this in once before, then cancelled the post; but maybe it does need sayin'. Many of us are assuming facts not in evidence. Not a wise basis for taking sides.

I'm a city kid, raised the squalor in the neighborhoods that make up urban & suburban LA & Orange Counties in CA. However, I was raised by a TN farmboy. And I attended a private school 1st thru 6th grade that was owned by the 3rd or 4th largest landowner in the state. Bused to and from the school located on his farm. I never understood that my attitudes differed from those of other kids in my neighborhood until I was an adult and encountered similar situations standing behind a badge. Even inside Orange County very different rulr of law might apply to identical circumstances. Mostly based on property use.

A nam has the right to protect his livelihood and property. He also has the duty and responsibility to ensure his livestock & pets do not infringe on his neighbor's rights. The disputes arise over method of resolution. And methods can vary greatly. A lot depends on property sizes, and as I said use. In suburbia, even where it's "gentlemen farmer's", killin' a neighbor's dog might be cause for charges... but, if that small farm produces most of it's income from that livestock or produce, pets that destroy said livestock or produce will be dealt with harshly. I've seen men kill their own dog for killin' a neighbor's ginuea hens, chickens or such. However, killin' a neighbor's dog that simply wanders onto their property is not the norm..., unless there's been a history of unknown depredations. Each situation is unique in minute details, but often they are similar enough that causes and resolutions are very alike.

There simply isn't enough information in the given article for me to reach an adamant conclusion. One where I, as a LEO, would write paper on either party. For, in truth, if the case can be shown that the dog owner's have not complied with the duty to restrain, or restrict their dogs when shown that they are the cause for damages, they can also be charged, both criminally and civilly. Also, I read at least one inconsistency in the dog owner's statements. That's enough to give me pause.

There is much more to this story than the emotional issues over dead dogs. I strongly suspect that the men on this forum would not allow their pets to be, or become a annoyance to their neighbors. And therein lies the crux of the issue; this man obviously felt his neighbors failed to control their animals. Madman4570, my weanling colt was presold for $10K, what would you suggest I do when 2 pitbulls are chasing it around in a 12 acre pasture? Mind ya, the nearest residence is more'n 300 yards away, neither of which own pitbulls, the next are a ½ mile or more? (In my instance there is no animall control in unincorporated parts of the county).

[piller]

I'm glad that another person noticed the lack of clear information in the article. I stand by my earlier post saying that I think the Journalist is trying to make the reader think one way. It really seems that there is more than we know. Might be time to sit back and wait for more information before anyone says anything they might regret.

[AJMD429]

. . . my weanling colt was presold for $10K, what would you suggest I do when 2 pitbulls are chasing it around in a 12 acre pasture?

According to some here, they'd start shooting at your animals on your own property, or at you, unless you waited until after your horse was actually injured - preferably in a gruesome or severe manner. Anything less than that would mean you would be the object of major vengeance...

I don't think there's all that much difference here as to how we'd handle the dog under similar circumstances, but the difference in terms of the 'revenge' that has been brought up is pretty striking...!

[Streetstar]

I'm done....I've known for years that mud wrestling gets all concerned dirty, and besides, the pigs actually enjoy it.

I am going to have to catalog that quote "upstairs" so to speak and save it ! Thanks Blaine!

[Tycer]

Please Hobie, lock this thread.

This is the kind of sheep dip that ran too many good men off this forum.

I value the posts by the men on this thread except for the one hot head.

Lock it lock it lock it!

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I have been on both sides of the fence at one time or another on this. I couldn't even tell you how many dogs I have shot, over the years, for chasing cattle, etc. Some of them definately needed killing, and some were were even my own.

And I have had my dogs cause other people problems, which resulted in phone calls, and one time I remember a dog of mine was shot, but not killed, and came home. He survived for a while, until I shot him myself for tearing into chicken houses on a regular basis.

I own cattle and horses, and all it takes is one bad dog, get two or more together, and all it takes is one bad dog, and the rest of the dogs will join in. I remember as a child we had an expensive coon dog that did kill one of our own calves (and this was a 200lb calf, not a baby), when our other dogs that never got in trouble joined in to help the Walker coon dog.

However, I will not shoot a tresspassing dog, just because he is tresspassing, espaacally someone's dog that I know. But if they are running my horses all bets are off. A pack of dogs, and they don't have to be wild dogs, can cause a lot of damage where livestock is concerned, at times.

I think what we have here on this board is a clash of cultures, between small acreage transplanted town people and real working farm and ranch people.

[FWiedner]

My grandparents had a small farm outside of Gurley, Nebraska, and apart from the crops they raised rabbits and chickens for meat and eggs. They always had one big mean hog penned up to slaughter for Grandma's spring tamales. Back then chickens were food on the table and money in the bank.

Grandad used to say that a dog that kills chickens will always be a chicken killer, and he handled it that way. There were no second chances. Didn't matter if it was a pet or a stray. Of course, if a dog didn't bark at strangers on the property, he'd get rid of them too. That's the way he saw the subject.

Years later we had a ranch in Colorado raising horses and grass to feed horses. We didn't bother with cats and ususally had a mousing dog, but we shot any dog or stray that tried to run the horses. We killed any coyote we saw, anywhere.

Maybe that's the thing. Folks had a different attitude towards the dogs. They weren't 'pets' per se, they had a job to do and it wasn't killing chickens, or making sport with the horses.

I still have dogs, and given a necessary reason I won't think twice about putting one down. I may have some silent regrets because I don't really like killing things I'm attached to for no good reason. A dog is usually just being a dog, but when there's potential or actual harm to persons or property a fellow's got to do the right thing.

A stray is just a stray, pick up the phone and be a good neighbor or run it off if you got a soft heart, but a bad dog has to be dealt with.

JMO.

[madman4570]

Please Hobie, lock this thread.

This is the kind of sheep dip that ran too many good men off this forum.

I value the posts by the men on this thread except for the one hot head.

Lock it lock it lock it!

Tycer,
Seems you probably are referring to maybe me as a hot head??
That's fine. Please note my latest comments were after the fact I stated that this post is getting out of hand/lets shake hands and agree to disagree.Emotions on this topic run high etc.
AFTER that another (hot head ??) made extreme insulting statements about me being like a prom queen/referring to me as some acting tough guy/on and on including a lifetime troubled fight picker.
I will soften my above posts to make another attempt to let bygones be bygones.


But,
After reviewing the current on the books Wyoming Law I do find it interesting that the law CLEARLY states if a land owner/livestock owner sees a dog in the act of killing/harming/or while in the act of running that livestock the land/livestock owner THINKS that dog running that livestock will injure that livestock(he may then kill that dog)??? Yep! should be able to!

Where does it say,the dog down the road(probably gotten loose and still wearing a collar)NOT CHASING ANY LIVESTOCK can be killed because it on numerous occasions only stepped on his land.(please provide exact penal code Wyoming Law supporting this.

I agree a couple statements were a tad harsh(as were the other sides)I will change/remove all that type wording!
But it can't be two ways----------It's either what their law says or someone is breaking the law or someone would be lying to say they killed a dog that was chasing livestock if in fact the dog wasn't.
Someone please provide actual proof that this law is not a valid law????

Insulting comments removed on my posts.(least on my end)other end????????

[FWiedner]

The law as it is written, wherever it is written, does not determine the course of events in much of the real world.

[madman4570]

Madman4570, my weanling colt was presold for $10K, what would you suggest I do when 2 pitbulls are chasing it around in a 12 acre pasture? Mind ya, the nearest residence is more'n 300 yards away, neither of which own pitbulls, the next are a ½ mile or more? (In my instance there is no animall control in unincorporated parts of the county).

Griff,

What I have found that works extremely well on something coming on your property like that in which you don't want on--------------
12ga Rubber Slugs/Buckshot.
However your case-----------------------would think you had cause if it appeared they were intent on doing your animal harm.

[AJMD429]

Please Hobie, lock this thread.

Ha. . . he's the one who started it. . .

(I'm just glad that for once it wasn't me. . . ).

[Wes]

Thanks for the clarification madman4570, you didn't read anything else in my post though. If you want to humanize your dog (or cat, or deer, or elk), go ahead. I don't shoot on sight, usually.
After the deuputy visited me about the dead dogs, I had another come by me herding cattle down the road and asked him what I should have done when the dogs visited our livestock, he told me to shoot them and not bother the local law enforcement about it. Trust me, this isn't the first time we've gone through this.
I doubt anyone around here thinks I should wait until my animals get killed or injured before taking action.
You have no idea how many run ins with dog owners we get. It still astounds me how 90% of them swear their dog would not hurt a thing. Just last spring my neighbor who raises show sheep lost a few head to dogs. She didn't have a rifle but followed the dogs down the draw to the subdivision and made sure where they went, then called the cops. Despite the fact that she saw them and followed them home, she lost her suit and is out several thousand dollars worth of high dollar Suffolk sheep. She now is packing heat all the time.
When I had to go hunting through the brush and kill 15 of my own ewes who'd been chewed to pieces and left alive (ain't it funny how hard it can be to kill a sheep, and yet hard to keep one alive?) with the most horrific wounds you ever saw, I became a lot more proactive. Trust me when I tell you that a sheep with her guts torn out and froze to the river ice is not too much fun.
One thing you do have to realize is that one dog usually doesn't do too much damage, a pair can be devastating in a herd of sheep, more than that and it starts to get crazy. We sold our flock of sheep partly because of the neighboring subdivisions unending supply of pet dogs killing lambs and ewes. Sad but true, we lost enough money on them that they weren't paying their way.
Now the dogs only chase my horses through the cattle guards (your good horse with his hind leg broke off will give you some resolve) or my weanling calves around. I spent a week gathering calves last year the second day of weaning. They were scattered around a six square mile area. Spent another three days building fence.
You can ask any rancher around and they'll have stories just like mine (and these are just a few), and ask yourself if you really think we should wait for them to cause trouble. Many times by the time you get to that point the damage will already be done when you get back to taking care of it.
These things don't normally happen right when people are watching their dogs. It's while they're gone. Peoples loose dogs on my property are in peril, is it to be my word against the dogs? If I say they were chasing livestock, they were chasing livestock. I make my living on my little ranch, I hope you folks realize that many people still do. It's not a hobby for me, it affects whether my kids have school clothes or not.

[JB]

I love dogs and hate cats. I have no desire to kill anyone's pet dog or cat, but I have killed a number of feral examples of both and will continue to do so. You really have to blame the irresponsible owners for not having their pets neutered or spayed, keeping control of the pets they want to keep, or not properly disposing of the pets they don't want.

[Tycer]

Tycer,
Seems you probably are referring to maybe me as a hot head??

Nope. It was a joke. ONE hothead on this forum? Hee hee.

One of the great things about this forum is the passion of the members. Occasionally, but much more rare than other gun forums, the anonymity and distance that the internet offers reduces the inhibitions of those passionate men and they may speak in a way here that they would not if they were truly sitting around the fire sharing knowledge and ideas. I'm not pointing fingers here, this is a blanket statement.

In addition, communication is hard enough when people are sitting together. Trying to interpret the true meaning of a man's written word without seeing his face and hearing his inflections makes communication a near impossible task.

In the past, these passionate threads have been the cause for valued members of the community to depart. The loss of their knowledge of leverguns, sixguns and other expertise has changed this forum for the worse IMO. Why they left and how thick their skin may or may not be is irrelevant to the loss of their knowledge. One thread having not a darn thing to do about leverguns should not be allowed if it gets heated to that point. Lock those threads and move the **** on.

[madman4570]

Wes,
You have to do what you have to do.
You are right,I am no rancher so I don't know what you deal with.
I suppose everyone has to live with what they do and I surely don't want your family to go without.
Guess everyone will do what they need to!

Where we are I guess it's a little better controlled with the dog deal.
Now, my uncle has a large dairy farm for this area (milks over 200 head)doesn't have dog issues really.
Coyotes from time to time(which he shoots)Course he does have two German Shepards that run loose on his place so maybe they keep off the dogs.
Anyhow-----------Good Luck!

[bdhold]

Best tacqueria I've ever stopped at is in Beeville.

We have a pretty good one here in Rockwall. But I don't get up to the city much.

Most tacquerias south of S. Flores St. are generally pretty good. But you can always find a good one by the cars at breakfast and lunch time.

This thread could use some narrow brushes and acknowledgement that points of the other side are indeed valid.
I know I would shoot stray dogs harassing game or livestock unless I knew the dog/owner and believed I had other options.
My uncle who took feral dog hunting so seriously raised champion blue tick hounds (and cattle), and you would have never found any of his dogs running lose. Nor mine, except an Akita I used to own who could find her way out of anything and seemed to like electric shocks.

The guy shot his landlord's dogs, he was arrested, they're pressing charges against him. It's going to cost him $10,000 min if he's found not guilty, and five times that if he's found guilty. These facts are completely independent of any bias in the article.

Notice Hobie hasn't been back? This is like a drive-by thread lead.

[Wes]

The level heads on here who have said we've only heard one side are the folks who're most correct (in regards to the news story). I have to agree there, that the article was very biased and made to jerk tears (and knee's). I will admit I am a knee jerk kind of guy at times.

A lot of the feeling that many of us out west have is hard to describe. My family has been here since 1860 something on this ranch. Great place to live, great neighbors for the most part, laid back lifestyle. Then boom, loads of folks from the city with a lawyer in their pocket and the cops on speed dial. Walking all over your place, fishing, hunting, camping, letting their dogs run loose, etc.

Buck, I think we are now getting a taste of what the Indians got. Things were working just fine before we were getting invaded by dudes.

[Streetstar]

I think what we have here on this board is a clash of cultures, between small acreage transplanted town people and real working farm and ranch people.

Thats true ---- i sort of fit into a third category . I grew up my whole life on a small acreage and was never transplanted. My dad and mom were the transplants, but it was the opposite of usual, as he moved from an extremely rural poverty stricken environment to get a job "in town" --- after a few years of living in a neighborhood , he was fed up and moved to 5 acres outside of town-- he also leased 28 acres with some stables so he could board horses for "city folk".

While not a big place, it was enough to introduce me to a true mix of suburb life and country life rolled into one. ---- I have personally not shot a dog yet, but i recall my dad having to shoot several of them for chasing horses.

I recently did an insurance claim inspection for another person with a small acreage who had about 20 pygmy goats ---- 3 or 4 of them had their ears torn off --- i asked about this and she said "those are the ones that survived" ---just like Wes was describing, someone's dog had a field day --- broke my heart , a pygmy goat is a friendly, inquisitive little critter --- it wasn't my fight, but i probably would have done the job myself if i had a rifle and saw the dogs.


On the flip side though, as i mentioned earlier (page 1) -- one of my dogs came home with a bullet in him after he got out and another one went missing. Except for a guy with a small cattle operation across the road from me,(and he told me my dogs dont mess with his cows -- he's also an old and cranky guy who would never lie about such things--- he's the type that if he put one down, he'd pick it up with a front end loader and dump it in the owner's driveway) there is nothing where i live for the dogs to threaten ---- somebody shooting a dog just for crossing their field would probably incite me to violence as well

[6pt-sika]

The level heads on here who have said we've only heard one side are the folks who're most correct (in regards to the news story). I have to agree there, that the article was very biased and made to jerk tears (and knee's). I will admit I am a knee jerk kind of guy at times.

Regardless of the bias of the article my INITIAL statement was made in relation to what I personally would do if it happened to me . And incidently we were here long before 3 of our neighbors ever thought of coming here !

[bdhold]

I think what we have here on this board is a clash of cultures, between small acreage transplanted town people and real working farm and ranch people.

Where does the pet killer fit in? - he's leasing the land from the landowners (who also owned the dogs)
He killed his landlord's pets.
I think what we really have is a lot of people projecting

My Mom's family was at the Jamestown colony, and my family had Dal Riata (Scotland) before Duncan took it away - should it interest you, you can read about it in Shakespeare.

[rimrock]

Frequently, city dogs get dumped out in my neck of the woods. Sometimes they have a redeeming value, so they get rescued by one of us country folk. Sometimes the coyotes or hawks do us a favor. Sometimes a single dog will learn how to survive out here. Sometimes the dog gets unlucky and joins 2-3 desperate, former pets, and they learn to threaten people. Then they get shot, first time we come across them (you know when its time because a pack of stray pet dogs will come after a human). Other times, a stray might get a pass. It just depends on the particular circumstances. My dogs fight with my neighbor's dogs every time we stand at the fence to visit because all of them are territorial. We separate them, cuss them, and go about our business. Each of us understands that our good friend and neighbor might shoot the other's dog if that dog is causing trouble away from home. Just the way it is. If I were faced with that situation, I'd for sure just SSS to avoid unnecessary conflict. I wouldn't even tell my wife that a dog needed to be shot. Saw a friend in another county face criminal charges for killing two expensive pets that had killed 4 sheep that day. He had warned the invader from the city several times. He was acquited, but had lots of attorney's fees.

rimrock

[willygene]

If we have feral or stray dogs around where we live and there are no owners to be found and they are in anyway messing with our livestock they will be shot. my horses cost between 7 and 10 thousand dollars apiece I use them for a living, people should tend to there dogs and keep them where they need to be or they don't need to have them. I will always defend my livestock over dogs.

[FWiedner]

... If I were faced with that situation, I'd for sure just SSS to avoid unnecessary conflict. I wouldn't even tell my wife that a dog needed to be shot... rimrock

The most sensible expression of opinion, thus far.

[KCSO]

Here in Nebraska the law is clear any dog chasing livestock can be destroyed on the spot. If the dogs WERE chasing the neighbors livestock here there would be no charges. The problem is that most folks think THEIR dog would never... and for the most part they do. I trapped for years and in about 1/2 the cases of COYOTES killing sheep it turned out to be the neighbors dog and the dog owner would never believe it even with wool in the dogs teeth.

[AJMD429]

If we have feral or stray dogs around where we live and there are no owners to be found and they are in anyway messing with our livestock they will be shot. My horses cost between 7 and 10 thousand dollars apiece I use them for a living, people should tend to there dogs and keep them where they need to be or they don't need to have them. I will always defend my livestock over dogs.

Yep. And if (I know it is silly, but sometimes 'putting the shoe on the other foot' helps think-through some situations) a dog-breeder had a neighbor's horses coming on their property and killing, injuring, or even 'potentially' harming their dogs, that dog-breeder would equally be entitled to deal with those horses, if necessary, by shooting them.

People need to move past the emotions, think logically, behave responsibly, and - if they love their animals as much as their 'threats of vengeance' indicate, see to it that their animals of whatever species, breed, or disposition, are KEPT ON THEIR PROPERTY. It isn't all that complicated. Obviously, animals don't "read the rules", and they DO escape, wander, or whatever - but then there MAY BE CONSEQUENCES that are bad for everyone. If a person has to kill an animal - pet or otherwise - that is on his property and he perceives it to be potentially dangerous, that is his right. We'll all love him and give him hugs and kudos if he can corral or repel the animal without harming it, but if that simply isn't practical or he doesn't have the time/inclination, he may shoot it - hopefully he's a good enough shot it doesn't suffer. Hopefully the OWNER of the animal learns from the experience, instead of just getting angry and blaming everyone but himself.

[willygene]

Horses do often get out from places where the fences are not maintained or they are not feed properly, but they will not go and chase the niebors dogs, but they will eat your niebors lawn and their plants. That being said horses being loose don't pose a threat to the local dogs and cats, but dogs will cause problems for livestock and children. Here in Texas livestock owners come out on top in legal matters were dogs are concerned. Cats don't figure in this equation they pose no threat to livestock unless they weigh 150 pounds or more.

[6pt-sika]

Horses do often get out from places where the fences are not maintained or they are not feed properly, but they will not go and chase the niebors dogs, but they will eat your niebors lawn and their plants. That being said horses being loose don't pose a threat to the local dogs and cats, but dogs will cause problems for livestock and children. Here in Texas livestock owners come out on top in legal matters were dogs are concerned. Cats don't figure in this equation they pose no threat to livestock unless they weigh 150 pounds or more.

You are totally correct .

However Mr. Wyoming Cattle Baron made a comment about tresspassing animals being shot .
So if it's good for him to shoot a dog tresspasing on his property then it outta be the same for me if my neighbors horse , cow or GD cat is on mine .
If there's trespassing going on and it's deemed acceptable to shoot the trespassing animal there certainly shouldn't be any stipulation that it's for dogs only .
Hell if we're gonna take it that far we might as well say if your cow sticks it's head thru the fence to eat a mounthfull of my grass then I have a right to shoot that cow for stealing my grass !

[6pt-sika]

Used to be in the state of Virginia alot of folks deemed it acceptable to shoot deer hounds if they were chasing a deer across their property . Partially because the hound owners would turn the dogs loose on one side of a posted piece of land and try and run the deer out the other side where they could shoot them .

I never agreed with what the hound guys were doing (I am also not a hound hunter), but I also never agreed with the land owners shooting the hounds . It wasn't the hounds fault he was doing what he was trained to do and had no idea what a Posted sign was !

Back to my own situation !

As I said we have to horse farms on the sides of our property . We have a chunk of about 67 acres mostly all wooded . We have in the past granted access for the horse riders to ride a trail thru our property back and forth with no problems !
Both these farms have Rotts or Dobermens that they typically let run free and there were times when I'd be hunting that their GD dogs were a nuiscance ! But they were doing what dogs do , looking for gut piles as I "used" to gut all the deer in the woods behind our home .

The dogs would constantly during hunting season come thru our property , 3 or 4 times each year one or the other would have horses out on our property which in as of itself ain't so bad except for the year I decided to reseed a piece of the yard and it had rained . Then the neighbors horses decided to come thru there at a gallop . That looked like a **** after they were done .

Do I have intentions of doing damage to my neighbors pets or livestock NO , do I think they would shoot our dog again NO .

But my original statement was made with the thinking in mind that they had done such a thing .

Now what goes on in Texas or Wyoming is good and fine THERE but it isn't good and fine where I live .

[bdhold]

the pet killer was arrested in Virginia.

Hunting deer with dogs is pretty much a SE thing, and is not legal in most of the country.

Always like the accents of the women around Williamsburg (Hampton, Newport News). Very subtle, a touch gutteral, and a twang that sounds more English than southern.

[willygene]

The reason we don't shoot livestock here is simple it cost more and it is an agricultural product, and if it or they get loose are not very likely to cause harm, dogs will cause harm and injury to animals and people. The only time we have livestock problems that we worry about is when loose stock gets on a public road. To shoot a horse or cow that is not causing harm just because someone thinks it's fair is asinine. To shoot a dog that is killing calves or chasing cattle or horses or your children is not. To Think otherwise would cause me great concern about someones ability to make sensible judgements. And no we don't shoot every dog just the ones that need it.

[Charles]

In Texas, the killing of a dog, unless it is an IMMEDIATE threat to you or your livestock, is a crime that carries serious jail time. The law is enforced on a regular basis.

[FWiedner]

I guess it depends on what part of Texas you live in.

I know more than one rancher who insists that any dog seen running deer be shot immediately, and I have seen them void lease agreements on tenants who did not comply.

[O.S.O.K.]

When we had some property out east of town, we received a flyer from the county govt. It specifically stated that stray dogs should be shot. I remember getting that and thinking "we are definately in the country"

Idiot townies would regularly drop off unwanted pets on the country roads and the dogs would pack up and run cattle. This was especially stupid because they could take them to the SPCA for free.

That was several years ago.

I shot two of the neighbor's dogs. They were chow mixes and ran far and wide. They came onto our property and growled at our kids before I chased them away. That was what caused the shooting.

I simply won't tolerate that.

The neighbor never inquired as to what happened to the dogs and I sure didn't go tell them. They lived a mile away.

I shot other dogs as well - not fun as I really do like dogs.

Basically, if the dog came up to the house (strays) and acted like it was wanting food, help - not agressive, it got a ride to the SPCA. Agression or running our cattle earned a bullet.

IMHO, if you really care about your dogs, you train them to stay around or simply keep them confined. Allowing dogs to run freely is asking for them to get killed - by coyotes, larger preditors or irritated, fed-up neighbors.

We will be moving in about 7 months to our land in Mississippi - and folks there use dogs to run deer (totally legal there). So, I'll have to amend my policy but I still won't be tolerating any agressive BS from any dog. We won't have any cattle but chickens might be in the works... but they'll most likely be in a confined space to keep other preditors out.

Personally, I think making it ilegal to shoot dogs is stupid. They just did that there in MS. I didn't see any stipulation for self protection either -but it may be there - I need to read up on that. I do understand that hunters get mad at the dogs running in on their deer stands and that they shoot somebody's $1500 dog... and that's a problem. Doesn't bother me so much as I figure they could run a deer to me

[AJMD429]

So if it's good for him to shoot a dog tresspasing on his property then it outta be the same for me if my neighbors horse, cow or GD cat is on mine. If there's trespassing going on and it's deemed acceptable to shoot the trespassing animal there certainly shouldn't be any stipulation that it's for dogs only.

I agree with that - it shouldn't depend on whether the animal is cute, cuddly, 'mans-best-friend', or how much it cost. Regardless of species, if it is in the midst of causing serious harm, it should be neutralized swiftly, and as humanely as possible. If it is only 'potentially' causing harm, then a nice-guy would try to head it off and work with the owner, but a not-nice guy, or just one who is busy, might still just neutralize the animal anyway. That shouldn't be illegal, and although if your neighbor did that, you'd probably not be inviting them over for Thanksgiving dinner, 'revenge' against them is wholly inappropriate, when it was you who failed to control your animal.

Hell if we're gonna take it that far we might as well say if your cow sticks it's head thru the fence to eat a mounthfull of my grass then I have a right to shoot that cow for stealing my grass !

I'd say the cow owner should have built a fence at least a neck-length inside his property-line, in that case. That's what we do, and in many cases, I think the zoning requires it.

I do understand that hunters get mad at the dogs running in on their deer stands and that they shoot somebody's $1500 dog... and that's a problem.

Only for the idiot who paid $1,500 for a dog, then let it run loose and uncontrolled. Would you buy a $1,500 Rolex and attach it to a hot-air balloon, then whine and moan if someone 100 miles away found it and didn't return it...? Out of pure consideration, if I knew a dog that was roaming among my livestock was a $1,500 dog, I might make a little extra effort to repel it instead of killing it, or corral it to return it to the owner, but 90% of the time I'm not going to know whether the blur chasing my goats is a prize coon-dog or a coy-dog with rabies, so I'm just going to pull the trigger, loop a haybale-rope on it, and drag it out where the vultures can eat it.

The chances the Turkey Vultures will think that $1,500 dog tastes better than a feral one are about the same chances that the owner of a $1,500 dog who lets it run wild will blame himself instead of me for the fact that it got shot.

Just as a thought-exercise, suppose I have a donkey or llama or other guard-animal in my livestock, and IT stomps-to-death that prize coon-hound, or cute lap-dog pet. . . is that somehow any different? What if I have an old-fashioned wide-belt farm implement going, and that 'trespassing' dog runs into it and gets killed? What if it just has a tree fall on it, or a car run over it, when on someone else's property? How are those outcomes all that different? Should that angry dog-owner still decide to threaten my livestock, pets, or family because of it?

I just think the 'machismo' factor over "nobody better hurt MY dog" is a bit over-done; keep your dog where it belongs, and nobody will harm it. If you try your best and it happens to get loose, your neighbor (even if it is me) will likely do whatever is possible NOT to shoot your dog, but there is no guarantee pooch will come back home - no different than if you let it run onto a busy road.

[Hobie]

I'm going to lock this one. I should have known better. I apologize to one and all...