22 Mag Kel-Tec vs. Single Six

[AJMD429]

I figured I'd try the same 'range test' with my Single Six that I did with the Kel-Tec, just for curiosity. The Single Six seems much less ammo-sensitive. Range for both guns was 50 feet.





The Kel-Tec obviously has plenty of accuracy for a self-defense application at close range (even at 50 feet the shots were well within the 'vital' zone), for those who may for various reasons not be able to use a better 'stopper'. Whatever feeds most reliably in a particular firearm would be reasonable and best; for this particular Kel-Tec feeding seems not to be an issue so far, so if the 'Supreme' rounds (or any of the others) fed reliably 500 in a row or so, it would be my choice.

The Single-Six obviously shows more potential for a hunting application, at least when both guns are fired with factory sights. I also LIKE it more due to the 'classic' sixgun appearance and handling. Oddly enough, it seems less noisy, despite the somewhat generous cylinder-gap.

If I could have only one of them for MY situation (.44 Spl for CCW, scoped .22 LR & Hornet Contender barrels if I want to be 'serious' hunting with a handgun, so just want a 'woods walking' or 'chore' gun for the occasional varmint or whatever, or just to plink), I'd take the Single Six. If I lived in an urban area, needed a CCW gun in .22 Mag due to handicap or inability to shoot a heavier gun, I'd be ok with the Kel-Tec.

[madman4570]

Doc,
How long have you had that Kel-Tec?(was this off a bench)?
I have got to think some of that open grouping with it is because of how used you are to it.
It should group better than that.My little P32 at 50 ft groups better than what you are showing there with the 40/45 gr bullets?

Interesting. If indeed that grouping didn't improve as you use it (it would go back and I would want a better shooting one?

I would also try----

Remington 40gr PSP
Fiocchi 40gr JHP

If they don't cut it any better??(somethings wrong)

Not acceptable!

Also wonder with a laser mounted what it would group?

[Rusty]

Doc,
Do you thing the Kel-Tec could be a better shooter if it had better sights?

How about a scope for grouping purposes?

[FWiedner]

Looks like both of 'em put rounds on paper to me.

I'd consider making a case for too many moving parts.

[AJMD429]

Shots were sitting, forearms rested on knees, to hopefully reduce 'shooter' factors, and reflect mostly the 'gun' factors. I know my Ruger Mark-II could outshoot both of the .22 Magnums, even with me at the trigger, but maybe if I give the Kel-Tec more time I'll get better with it. While I like the sights for 'visibility' in the 'combat' sense, a scope or Fastfire-II would be interesting.

I've seen pictures of them with Fastvire-II's on them, but unsure how people attached them. I really don't want a holosight on it though, so I'll probably leave it as is.

[Streetstar]

That looks about like how the groups the reviewer in the Dillon Press described.

Maybe get a tad tighter with some experimentation with different cartridges , but probably won't re-invent the wheel

[kevin in nh]

It looks like the 40 grains key holed out of the Kel-Tek??? Just wondering.......I have shot a lot of calibers but not one 22 mag....how much louder is it compared to a 22 lr?

[rond]

Even with a full magazine, mine is so light that there is quite a bit of recoil. Only have 400 rounds through it, no problems so far.

[madman4570]

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm

[Tycer]

It looks like the 40 grains key holed out of the Kel-Tek???

Kel-tec recommends against the CCI 40 grainers because they keyhole. They offered a barrel replacement for free to early guns, but that did not fully cure the keyholing of the 40 grain CCIs.

[madman4570]

Doc,

Look at all the group sizes(numerous tests)at 75ft ? on my above post.
If that gun don't shoot at least very close to that(once you are used to it)---------------------Back to Kel-Tec and tell em to give you a good one.(lives may depend on it)
I was told by my pal(owns his own gun shop)even if you are not the original owner Kel-Tec will still make it right!

[6pt-sika]

Doc,

Look at all the group sizes(numerous tests)at 75ft ? on my above post.
If that gun don't shoot at least very close to that(once you are used to it)---------------------Back to Kel-Tec and tell em to give you a good one.(lives may depend on it)
I was told by my pal(owns his own gun shop)even if you are not the original owner Kel-Tec will still make it right!

We've had several of the KelTec 22 MAG's come thru the shop that didn't cycle the best . I think of the 6-9 that have come thru here 3 of them had issues related mostly to feeding . The accuracy part I cannot comment on as all I've ever done was shoot them in the "snail" .

[madman4570]

Doc and 6pt,

Hey you guys,just picked up the mail at the Post Office(have one of them large Post Office Boxes,open on Sunday)and I just got the November 2011 issue of American Rifleman.
On page 80,81 in the Technical Dope Bag section they tested the Kel-Tec PMR-30
They talked about it's reliability and stated that(it is the only reliable .22WMR semi-auto today)
They said that one issue that needs addressing is that loading cartridges must be pushed down and rearward.
With care paid keep the case rim ahead of the cartridge below it. Each 5 rds the mag must be tapped lightly against a hard surface. And then after 15rds this action must be replicated after each round is inserted.

Now, they tested the gun with CCI,Federal,Remington,Winchester firing the mix of more than 600rds.
They had 2 misfires-----they found that the 2 that did misfire were OLD Remington loads that failed to fire after repeated firm strikes on different portions of the case rim.(BAD AMMO)

They observed the single action trigger was surprisingly crisp(3lbs,7 ozs)


OK,--------for the Accuracy !
They shot from sandbags and with its normal sights at 25 YARDS.(75ft)
(5)5rd groups of each Hornady(#22240) Remington(#R22M1) Winchester(X22MHLF) were tested.

Total average of all groups in above order was (Hornady---1.53") (Remington----1.64") (Winchester----1.18")
So, all combined total average extreme spread of all groupings--------1.45"
They said accuracy was impressive. And some of those groups would have been half of that except for a single flyer.


Doc, if you don't get American Rifleman mag and want this issue-----pm me and I will send it to you.
To me a semi-auto with combat sights that groups under 1.5" at 25yds-------is a shooter.

If yours you find won't do it-----------------------back it goes.
Good Luck

Got to say,

[crs]

The current American Rifleman also covers the new Taurus 990 with cylinders for .22 LR and .22 WRM.
Looks like a good issue.

[rimrock]

I miss the Single Six with exchangable cylinders I had 30 years ago. It sure liked .22Mag

rimrock

[AJMD429]

They said that one issue that needs addressing is that loading cartridges must be pushed down and rearward. With care paid keep the case rim ahead of the cartridge below it.

I saw all the emphasis on that in the instruction manual and on their website. Seemed sort of obvious to me, and seemed like it would be hard NOT to load them that way, but maybe it's because I've shot lots of .22LR semiautos over the years.

Total average of all groups in above order was (Hornady---1.53") (Remington----1.64") (Winchester----1.18")
So, all combined total average extreme spread of all groupings--------1.45"
They said accuracy was impressive.

Mine didn't perform that well, BUT you have to compare the Single Six groups I shot the same way - even with that gun (that many people say is really accurate, especially with .22 WMR's), my groups even with the Single Six were pretty mediocre - or perhaps I should just say 'lousy', compared to groups posted by many of you guys. The problem therefore may be me more than the gun. Anyway, I'm going to definitely do some more shooting and testing. ( ) I may get my Mark-II out and see what kind of 'benchmark' groups I can get with it using .22 LR, since it is probably the handgun I've shot best over the years, so I have a better reference point than what the American Rifleman technical staff can do. Should be interesting.

Doc, if you don't get American Rifleman mag and want this issue-----pm me and I will send it to you.

Thanks, but I just got it as well.

The current American Rifleman also covers the new Taurus 990 with cylinders for .22 LR and .22 WRM.

THAT really caught my eye, as one who still likes revolvers better than semiautos, although it would be hard for a revolver to be much nicer than the Single Six, unless one really preferred double-actions.

[AJMD429]

Kel-tec recommends against the CCI 40 grainers because they keyhole. They offered a barrel replacement for free to early guns, but that did not fully cure the keyholing of the 40 grain CCIs.

I wish they posted on their website the serial numbers affected and so on. Some of the 'keyholed' hits are actually places where the white target paper was not firmly against the corrugated cardboard backing, and the paper tore, but I do think some are from tumbling. Will test more when I have time.

[madman4570]

Doc,
Your probably right, I mean the Winchester Supreme group you got for a combat sighted semi-auto and being a new to owner gun isn't too bad.
It was a other two that seemed a little over the top.
Interesting what you will find out?
And yes it would be tough to top that fine Ruger Single Six.(they are truly one great gun!)