My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
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- KirkD
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My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
I have been trying to get one example each of the early Winchester lever actions for my very modest collection (with the exception of the Model 1866, which is priced out of my reach). This past weekend, I managed to acquire one of the models that was missing from my collection, the 1895. The Model 1895 was chambered in a variety of cartridges, but the one I wanted most was the 38-72 with the full, tapered octagon barrel ever since I’d seen one in the collection of another fellow several years ago.
The 38-72 was one of the first cartridges chambered in the Model 1895. It was a black powder cartridge, sending a 275 grain bullet out at 1,435 fps. The 38-72 was discontinued in 1909. I’ve ordered 20 cases from Jamison, but I also have 20 cases reformed from 444 brass. When I seated a .379 cast bullet, the cartridge would not chamber until I took 600 grit sandpaper and thinned the case necks to around ten thou. The soft cast bullets I have are not the right type, so I’ll have to order a custom mould to drop 275 grain, .380 diameter, gas check bullets. A range report will likely have to wait until later fall or next spring. Here is a photo of the 38-72 cartridge (on the left) beside the more well-known 38-55 cartridge on the right ....
My 38-72 received its serial number on April 17, 1904, was received in the Winchester warehouse on August 8, 1904 and shipped on the 3rd of June, 1905. Here are a few photos of my ‘new’ beautiful classic old Winchester and its magnificent tapered octagon barrel and classic crescent buttplate.
The 38-72 was one of the first cartridges chambered in the Model 1895. It was a black powder cartridge, sending a 275 grain bullet out at 1,435 fps. The 38-72 was discontinued in 1909. I’ve ordered 20 cases from Jamison, but I also have 20 cases reformed from 444 brass. When I seated a .379 cast bullet, the cartridge would not chamber until I took 600 grit sandpaper and thinned the case necks to around ten thou. The soft cast bullets I have are not the right type, so I’ll have to order a custom mould to drop 275 grain, .380 diameter, gas check bullets. A range report will likely have to wait until later fall or next spring. Here is a photo of the 38-72 cartridge (on the left) beside the more well-known 38-55 cartridge on the right ....
My 38-72 received its serial number on April 17, 1904, was received in the Winchester warehouse on August 8, 1904 and shipped on the 3rd of June, 1905. Here are a few photos of my ‘new’ beautiful classic old Winchester and its magnificent tapered octagon barrel and classic crescent buttplate.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- Ysabel Kid
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Beautiful gun, and a very interesting cartridge. Looking forward to the range report.
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk,
Your collections continue make me green with envy!
This is a gorgeous rifle and and your pictures are fantastic, as usual.
Thanks for sharing the pics and the history lesson!
Your collections continue make me green with envy!
This is a gorgeous rifle and and your pictures are fantastic, as usual.
Thanks for sharing the pics and the history lesson!
"Spend so much time improving yourself that you have no time to criticize others." -Unknown
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
That is a nice looking gun
- gundownunder
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
As usual, your pics are truly impressive.
Looks like a whole lot of barrel to hold up, which would give my old shoulder and elbow more grief than it's worth.
It should make a nice long range lever gun, do you plan to hunt with it, or keep it for the range.
Looks like a whole lot of barrel to hold up, which would give my old shoulder and elbow more grief than it's worth.
It should make a nice long range lever gun, do you plan to hunt with it, or keep it for the range.
Bob
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Yes, beautiful!
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
- KirkD
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
I definitely plan to hunt with it. I don't know if I'll get the mould in time for this fall, though.gundownunder wrote: It should make a nice long range lever gun, do you plan to hunt with it, or keep it for the range.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
You are a lucky levergunner. Nice, very nice.
Owen
Owen
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Really greart looking rifle Kirk.
JerryB II Corinthians 3:17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
JOSHUA 24:15
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Oh my, THAT is niiiice. Very nice.
Looking forward to a range report!
Best,
Oly
Looking forward to a range report!
Best,
Oly
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Beautiful, Kirk! Nothing more elegant than octagon barrels and crescent buttplates!
Have you hugged your rifle today?
- kimwcook
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Congratulations, Kirk! I'm happy for you. It's always a nice feeling when you finally get something you've been looking for. Look forward to your range report as always. Now, tell me about the wear on the right side of your saddle cantle. Is that from a holster? That's about the only thing I can think of that would produce that kind of wear.
Old Law Dawg
- KirkD
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Well, the truth is that it is mice that did it. That was my working saddle when I was a teenager and it just hung over a stall in one of the barns. After I left home it didn't get used much anymore and somewhere along the line a mouse started nibbling on it. I rescued my old saddle and now, forty years later, it sits on my office ... A reminder of the days when I was young and rode a lot.kimwcook wrote:Congratulations, Kirk! I'm happy for you. It's always a nice feeling when you finally get something you've been looking for. Look forward to your range report as always. Now, tell me about the wear on the right side of your saddle cantle. Is that from a holster? That's about the only thing I can think of that would produce that kind of wear.
I should also mention, in case all you fellers are thinking I got a pile of fine old Winchesters ... I only have a total of seven. Mind you, I really like those old guns. They all speak of the old days.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
All I can do is reiterate what everyone else has already said...Beautiful rifle, and beautiful photos! You're "humble" collection makes me envious. I admire your taste in leverguns and always look forward to your photographs. They are well composed, well lit, and well shot. If you ever get a chance to take more pics of your rifles outdoors, or the entire assemblage at once, please don't hesitate to post them!
- kimwcook
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
I hates those mices to pieces. No, really I do. They've been seriously mischief this year. I've had them chew the wires on my POV twice and my department rig once. I throw bait out like candy anymore.KirkD wrote:After I left home it didn't get used much anymore and somewhere along the line a mouse started nibbling on it.
Old Law Dawg
- Shasta
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Some time back on the old forum I had a thread on a Model 95 .38-72 octagon rifle such as yours. It belongs to a friend of mine who is not much interested in guns, but he inherited the rifle from his late father and would not part with it. He did allow me to borrow it and clean it up enough to get it shooting. It was very dirty, and he said he knew the rifle had not been fired in well over 50 years. It is an unmolested original that doesn't have much finish left, and the bore is rather poor. The best part is, he also has a near mint original Winchester bullet mould for the rifle!
I bought a set of reloading dies off of ebay, slugged the rifle's bore at .3795, and cast some bullets in that nice old mould using a 20:1 lead alloy. The bullets weighed 275 grains, but unfortunately were only about .378 diameter. They did not shoot very well given their too small diameter and the rifle's rather rough bore. It shot better with black powder loads, giving about four inch five-shot groups at 50 yards, but my friend did not want to deal with the necessary cleaning after using black. I loaded him three boxes of ammo using AA5744, but to this day he has never shot the rifle.
Seeing your fine speciman has got me to thinking maybe I should borrow my friend's old 95 again and give it another go. Perhaps a harder alloy would give larger bullets that might just shoot better...
Anyway, looking forward to your range report. Here are a few pics that may be of interest:
SHASTA
I bought a set of reloading dies off of ebay, slugged the rifle's bore at .3795, and cast some bullets in that nice old mould using a 20:1 lead alloy. The bullets weighed 275 grains, but unfortunately were only about .378 diameter. They did not shoot very well given their too small diameter and the rifle's rather rough bore. It shot better with black powder loads, giving about four inch five-shot groups at 50 yards, but my friend did not want to deal with the necessary cleaning after using black. I loaded him three boxes of ammo using AA5744, but to this day he has never shot the rifle.
Seeing your fine speciman has got me to thinking maybe I should borrow my friend's old 95 again and give it another go. Perhaps a harder alloy would give larger bullets that might just shoot better...
Anyway, looking forward to your range report. Here are a few pics that may be of interest:
SHASTA
California Rifle & Pistol Association LIFE Member
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http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html
avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member
http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html
avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
She's a beaut Kirk, congrats. Love the octagon barrel, caliber and character on your rifle.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Very cool rifle chambered for neat round that few get to play around with. Also, your pictures are incredible.
Eric
Eric
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk, wonderful rifle and as usual wonderful pictures.
By the way, what about the knife? I get envious of that too. Please, tell us about it.
Best,
Stefan
Sweden
By the way, what about the knife? I get envious of that too. Please, tell us about it.
Best,
Stefan
Sweden
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
great looking shooter....
I have never seen or heard of that cartridge before...
Bet the brass is a pretty penny or two..or three...
and I dont think we can wait that long for a range report....
and as always......nice pics....
BTW what camera are you using?
I have never seen or heard of that cartridge before...
Bet the brass is a pretty penny or two..or three...
and I dont think we can wait that long for a range report....
and as always......nice pics....
BTW what camera are you using?
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
- KirkD
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Shasta, that was interesting info and photos. Thanks for posting that. You should certainly keep in touch with your friend. You never know when he might decide to sell the old rifle.
Hombre, the Bowie knife was made for me by Mr. Soellner of Chisholm’s Trail. It has a 6 & ¼” blade made of solingen steel and the handle is Sambar Stag. He also made the sheath. That knife has cleaned a few deer.
RIHMFIRE, I am using a Panasonic Lumix GF1 micro four thirds digital camera. The lens is the 14-45 F3.5-5.6 Lumix and is made by Leica. The camera and lens has an excellent review on DPreview http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/ . It is a couple years old now, so there is probably a newer replacement out there now. It is nice and compact, but the lenses are interchangeable.
Hombre, the Bowie knife was made for me by Mr. Soellner of Chisholm’s Trail. It has a 6 & ¼” blade made of solingen steel and the handle is Sambar Stag. He also made the sheath. That knife has cleaned a few deer.
RIHMFIRE, I am using a Panasonic Lumix GF1 micro four thirds digital camera. The lens is the 14-45 F3.5-5.6 Lumix and is made by Leica. The camera and lens has an excellent review on DPreview http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicGF1/ . It is a couple years old now, so there is probably a newer replacement out there now. It is nice and compact, but the lenses are interchangeable.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- Borregos
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
That is a really nice one Kirk, looking forward to the range report on it.
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
You sure have a good eye, that's nice.
"That'll Be The Day"
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
That is very nice!
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
"Hombre, the Bowie knife was made for me by Mr. Soellner of Chisholm’s Trail. It has a 6 & ¼” blade made of solingen steel and the handle is Sambar Stag. He also made the sheath. That knife has cleaned a few deer."
Thanks for the information, Kirk!
Best
Stefan
Sweden
Thanks for the information, Kirk!
Best
Stefan
Sweden
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Beautiful rifle, Kirk. I like both the .38-72 and 40-72 and have been looking for one with a nickel steel octagonal barrel. Saw one in .40-72 at Reno last year, but my funds were already spent another darned '86. Dang the affliction!
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
I like I like
Good on you Kirk
Are you gettin' any huntin' in this fall Kirk?
Nath.
Good on you Kirk
Are you gettin' any huntin' in this fall Kirk?
Nath.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk - Showin' pics, of rifle like thet, is a sin (or oughta be) - I think..................... . . .
.
.
- KirkD
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Nath, I am very much looking forward to it. The season isn't until the second week in November, so hopefully I have time to get some proper cast bullets for it.Nath wrote:
Are you gettin' any huntin' in this fall Kirk?
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Very nice... Shootin' the old ones is hard to beat... Good luck with it..
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WIL TERRY
WIL TERRY
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Thats a beaut. I love the barrel and the cartridge is very interesting also. I have been considering an 1895 but it was a round barrel. I must rethink this now. wow
Mike Johnson,
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk,
Once again, you set the mark high! Beautiful gun. Looking forward to the range report.
Shasta,
I would think a softer bullet might perform better... especially with BP!
Once again, you set the mark high! Beautiful gun. Looking forward to the range report.
Shasta,
I would think a softer bullet might perform better... especially with BP!
Griff,
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk,KirkD wrote: A range report will likely have to wait until later fall or next spring.
First, you done well as there's lots of condition on that '95 but.............wait until next spring????????? You must have the patience of a patient. That would drive me crazy--for real. A 38-72 is nothing more than a 40-72 necked down which is nothing different than a .405. Get some .405 brass and neck her down in a FLS or..............you can even run some 30-40 Krag brass in a 38-72 sizer. Use a 35 Whelen (for getting 35 Whelen from 30-06) neck expander first---(tapered). The 30-40 brass will come up a bit short but.........if you crimp to proper OAL, she will work just fine.
Any 38-55 bullet will work....as long as it meets the proper groove diameter. Get a gas check bullet (as most old '95s have pitted bores and worn crowns) then seat it in a dummy round so it just touches the rifling and send her to Lee for a custom made LFCD.
As for the brass not having the proper thickness to seat a .380 bullet, its a joke to have Forster make you an inside neck reamer or................with the shorter length of the 30-40 brass, it won't be an issue at all.
I'd have that baby shooting the next day -----ha! Your thinkin' I bet a "range report" comes next week. Hey buddy, you and I were both born in 1954, and you had better not wait too much longer. -------------------------------------------------Sixgun
- KirkD
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
By gum, Sixgun! You are driving me to distraction, dangling those original 38-72 cartridges in front of me like that! I thinned the necks on a total of 12 cases now and Jamison emailed me to let me know that they have shipped 20 more properly dimensioned and head stamped cases, so I'm good for brass. I loaded up the 12 cases with my LBT 38-55 265 grain bullet. Talk about lead up the bore! This bullet is a plain base straight cylinder of lead with a blunt olgive and a flat nose ... not enough lube grooves for a lead cylinder at 1,475 fps. Shasta figures his friend will have no problem loaning me his sweet, original 38-72 mould. With luck, I should be able to cast up a pile of proper, 38-72 bore riding bullets within a few weeks. I want to take the dimensions of those cast bullets and have a custom mould made that kicks out the identical bullet but with a gas check base, unless the original plain base bullet already gives good accuracy. The bore on this rifle is excellent from throat to muzzle.
Last edited by KirkD on Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
- Cimarron Red
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk,
That's a lovely old rifle in a great cartridge. As my buddy Sixgun says, the sands are trickling through the hour glass. Let's have a range report.
That's a lovely old rifle in a great cartridge. As my buddy Sixgun says, the sands are trickling through the hour glass. Let's have a range report.
- Sixgun
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Cimarron Red wrote:As my buddy Sixgun says, the sands are trickling through the hour glass.
Dang Reds, YOU taught me that.
I never did get to play with a 38-72 or a 40-72--Its on the bucket list! -------------Sixgun
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Great photos as always!
Dave B
Dave B
- Shasta
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Kirk wrote-
"Shasta, that was interesting info and photos. Thanks for posting that. You should certainly keep in touch with your friend. You never know when he might decide to sell the old rifle."
Well Kirk, I am in your debt. After contacting my friend to borrow the .38-72 mould for you, I inquired if he might not be willing to sell his rifle. After a few days deliberation, we were able to make a deal and the rifle now is in my gun safe! It was made in 1898, and came with the mould, two original ammo boxes (like Sixgun pictured), one of which is missing only two rounds, the other contained fired and corroded empty brass, plus I got two boxes of Bertram brass handloads. I already own a set of dies, so now I can play with it all I want. Lucky me!!
Thanks for the encouragement, and sorry if I hijacked your thread a little bit there...
SHASTA
"Shasta, that was interesting info and photos. Thanks for posting that. You should certainly keep in touch with your friend. You never know when he might decide to sell the old rifle."
Well Kirk, I am in your debt. After contacting my friend to borrow the .38-72 mould for you, I inquired if he might not be willing to sell his rifle. After a few days deliberation, we were able to make a deal and the rifle now is in my gun safe! It was made in 1898, and came with the mould, two original ammo boxes (like Sixgun pictured), one of which is missing only two rounds, the other contained fired and corroded empty brass, plus I got two boxes of Bertram brass handloads. I already own a set of dies, so now I can play with it all I want. Lucky me!!
Thanks for the encouragement, and sorry if I hijacked your thread a little bit there...
SHASTA
California Rifle & Pistol Association LIFE Member
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member
http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html
avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member
http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html
avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Very nice Kirk! What's the recoil of a 38-72 like? That crescent buttplate will probably make it feel really noticeable.
- Aussie Chris
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Very nice '95 you have there Kirk!
A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...
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Re: My 'new' classic Winchester 38-72 (picture heavy)
Fantastic news, Shasta!! Congratulations on the acquisition of a classic '95 that is very hard to find. We'll have to keep in touch to see what loads work best. I have some jacketed .377 bullets that Stone Fence made that I also want to try, in addition to the cast bullets from your mould.Shasta wrote: ... I inquired if he might not be willing to sell his rifle. After a few days deliberation, we were able to make a deal and the rifle now is in my gun safe! ...
Kaschi: I did not actually notice the recoil, so it must not have been too bad. It is not as bad as the 45-70, that is for sure.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/