Running out of LEAD ???

[getitdone1]

It's so danged hot around here for the past several days that I've been staying inside most of the time and fiddling with the computer. When you do that you find things you otherwise might not have discovered.

Just read where they say the world is running-out of lead and may be out of it in 18-42 years. Like a lot of information--even from so-called experts--expect this can be taken with a grain of salt. No doubt a pretty high percentage of lead is recycled. Mostly from batteries, I think.

They say, in America, more than 90% of lead comes from Missouri. Also they say that lead is not a good conductor of electricity and yet we have lead battery posts. Can someone here explain this?

Thought since lead plays such a vital part in our interest of guns and shooting many here would find this interesting.

Don

[J Miller]

I'll bet this comes from the same batch of X-spurts that came up with global warming, the hole in the ozone layer, the upcoming ice age et al.

"IF" we are running out of lead it's because the EPA won't allow it to be mined and processed. Not because there's really a shortage of it.

Joe

[Chas.]

"IF" we are running out of lead it's because the EPA won't allow it to be mined and processed. Not because there's really a shortage of it.

Is that a factual statement or a political one? As far as global warming, you need to get out more. It's happening here, NOW.

[AJMD429]

Is that a factual statement or a political one? As far as global warming, you need to get out more. It's happening here, NOW.

That's right, Joe, and I've got it on good authority that the "ice age" will arrive in about six months, followed by yet another period of global warming six months after that...! It's strange, I tell ya...

Seriously, the only way we'd "run out" of lead literally would be if reactors were changing it into something else. We might have less accessable lead if it all gets dispersed or dissolved, but lead isn't very soluble, so it will wind up somewhere either where nature left it, or humans put it, most of the time.

I'm thinking that there's alot of "mining" going to be happening in landfills during the next century, yielding lots of stuff. Technology will have to adapt to that environment, where you're not just mining an area with a 'vein' of a particular ore, but rather an area with lots of stuff, all in smaller amounts.

If the socialists don't destroy our country, we'll mine our landfills and recycle more and more and not run out of much of anything. If they 'defeat' capitalism and the free market, we'll wind up a desolate third-world nation with a population of dolts rioting whenever they don't get their handouts.

[adirondakjack]

Something like 70-75% of all lead in existance in the US is running around in our car batteries. Nearly ALL of that is recycled over and over, with very little lost to tossing em in the back hedge row, as some of our grandfathers did.

Now, since we've had well-established recycling streams in the US for lead batteries and wheel weights, and since plumbling and phone company use of lead is now in the recovery phase, not much used any more, we've actually got a positive scrap flow IF one only considers the US.

BUT, CHINA, INDIA, and other "former third world" countries are moving from bycycles and huts to what we'd call "twentieth century living" at a tremendous pace, THE WORLD is using more lead than ever. Eventually the car population in those places will stabilize, like it has in the US and Europe, but for now, every Chinaman who puts away his bicycle in favor of a car uses a battery where none was in use before. In MOST of China, if a car battery goes bad, they throw it out because the "scrap stream" is not well established.

MOST of the scrap batteries in the US have gone to China in the last few years, as Chinese battery makers will pay more for shiploads of em than our own smelting plants, AND, since we have innumerable ships bringing cargo TO the US each day, even a "poor" load going back is better than nothing for the shippers....

Eventually they will have better recycling and will actually use LESS US lead....

Be that as it may,

I suspect we'll be "off" lead car batteries before the world runs into a lead crisis. Lithium batteries are coming along gangbusters, and a comparable battery pack will outlast a car, be lighter, and can be configured in almost any shape, etc. A 10 lb lithium pack could be made 30"square and an inch thick, and be mounted under the floor, for example.... A 10 or 12 yr old lithium pack could be dropped into a new car and still have life in it,...... Lead's had a great run in batteries, but it will come to a close in our kid's lifetimes if not ours......

[Rimfire McNutjob]

... Also they say that lead is not a good conductor of electricity and yet we have lead battery posts. Can someone here explain this?

Lead isn't a particularly poor conductor ... it's just not as good as Copper, Silver, Gold, etc. Lead Acid batteries are an older but decently dense and cheap way to store an electrical potential chemically for later use. The posts are Lead because the plates within the battery are Lead and it's easy and cheap to bond them as part of the battery building process. The table here shows where lead falls in conductivity with other commonly used materials. Though it's about 13 times worse than Copper, it's many millions of times better than most others listed.

[Idiot]

As mentioned above, where's it going to go? It is impossible to run out of lead.

[adirondakjack]

As mentioned above, where's it going to go? It is impossible to run out of lead.

BUT, when the WORLD adds 800 million cars, that's a lotta lead not available for other uses.

More important to us bullet casters is reasonably priced AVAILABLE lead. As lead wheel weights are being outlawed, and all the old housing stock re-plumbed with plastic, there will soon come a time when you won't be able to BUY scrap lead from common scrap yards. AND that is not even considering potential outlawing of SALE of lead to anyone without a smelter's license, HAZMAT certification, insurance, etc. I see that coming long before lead becomes a precious metal

I expect there will come a time when I can't buy scrap lead locally, and will have to pay the man the money for ingot alloy from a smelter (price that lately?)

[Pisgah]

"IF" we are running out of lead it's because the EPA won't allow it to be mined and processed. Not because there's really a shortage of it.

Is that a factual statement or a political one? As far as global warming, you need to get out more. It's happening here, NOW.

Uh... it's summertime, Chas. I know the climate does change -- otherwise, there never would have been sevaral Ice Ages -- but to think Man causes it is pure arrogance and folly, and to believe such makes one a perfect dupe of the power-hungry who preach such stuff.

[Blaine]

95% of all stats are made up.

[Chas.]

I'm thinking that there's alot of "mining" going to be happening in landfills during the next century, yielding lots of stuff. Technology will have to adapt to that environment, where you're not just mining an area with a 'vein' of a particular ore, but rather an area with lots of stuff, all in smaller amounts.

Interesting that you say that. I've been thinking that for a long time - mining landfills. I won't be around to see it, but my grandkids might.

[AJMD429]

BUT, CHINA, INDIA, and other "former third world" countries are moving from bycycles and huts to what we'd call "twentieth century living" at a tremendous pace, THE WORLD is using more lead than ever.

That's a very good point. I think the third-world to beyond first-world growth of China and it's billion or so people will suck the planet dry of resources for awhile.

And since we're so in debt to them, we will probably have to pretty much just hand them over...

[getitdone1]

... Also they say that lead is not a good conductor of electricity and yet we have lead battery posts. Can someone here explain this?

Lead isn't a particularly poor conductor ... it's just not as good as Copper, Silver, Gold, etc. Lead Acid batteries are an older but decently dense and cheap way to store an electrical potential chemically for later use. The posts are Lead because the plates within the battery are Lead and it's easy and cheap to bond them as part of the battery building process. The table here shows where lead falls in conductivity with other commonly used materials. Though it's about 13 times worse than Copper, it's many millions of times better than most others listed.

Rimfire McNutjob,

Thanks for answering my question and the interesting material via the link.

But........are we running-out of lead?

Don

[adirondakjack]

BUT, CHINA, INDIA, and other "former third world" countries are moving from bycycles and huts to what we'd call "twentieth century living" at a tremendous pace, THE WORLD is using more lead than ever.

That's a very good point. I think the third-world to beyond first-world growth of China and it's billion or so people will suck the planet dry of resources for awhile.

And since we're so in debt to them, we will probably have to pretty much just hand them over...

My dad, a HS drop-out, used to explain "one world" economics this way:

"Take two picnic coolers (or as many as ya like), fill each with ice, set one in the sun, one in the shade, and if ya wait a while, you'll see the different effects of location, as one ends up melted before the other. (That's OLD WORLD economics)

Now, connect the drains on the coolers with a common hose, and instead of seeing a DIFFERENCE after waiting a while, you'll see that even if one starts out full of ice, one with water, (or even one with air), eventually they're ALL gonna be filled to the same level with about the same temperature water."

That's "one world" economics. Since Nixon opened up China, and the USSR collapsed, the whole world is pretty much connected.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I am doing my best to get rid of lead as fast as I can pull the trigger. I guess I am part of the problem then???

[win38-55]

The reason the world is running out of lead is because I got it all.
I have it stored it nice shiny brass cases.

[Blaine]

It's going to suck when they declare lead bullets banned

[otteray]

The reason the world is running out of lead is because I got it all.
I have it stored it nice shiny brass cases.

Me too! I have about 2500 lbs of wheels weights, lead roof sheathing and lead plumbing stuff. I always have my ears to the ground and eyes peeled for more...

[M. M. Wright]

Had a chance to get the lead lining from an old X-ray lab. About a ton of it. Gave a lot away and alloyed a lot with 50/50 bar solder. The one pound bars that are half Tin/half Lead. That way I could control the mix and get 20:1 and even made some bars of 30:1 for my bullets. Ran out of 30:1 and went to a big plumbing contractor store for more solder but NO MORE! Seems they have stopped carrying lead solder. Tried another similar store in a nearby town and no luck there either. I do have a source for pure tin so will have to try there for my alloying supplies. Ain't big brother grand?

[Peter M. Eick]

As a geologist (hard rock mining was my interest and specialty back in the day), I would tell you that lead is reasonably common. If the prices go up lead will come out quickly. I am surprised though with the silver being so expensive that we are not flooded with lead. Many deposits of lead have significant silver as a byproduct.

The classic lead deposit is the missippi valley lead zinc deposils. Do a few google searches on it. Very intersting deposits.

[JB]

I heard Al Gore and the global warming folks are hording up the lead.

[BAGTIC]

If the world were running out of lead it would be a lot more expensive than it is. It along with steel is one of the world's cheapest metals. A couple of days ago I came across a DTIC paper on the future availability of strategic metals. According to it lead is in very good supply. It also noted that the amount of lead used for ammunition is so slight as to have a negligiible effect on either availability or price.

[BAGTIC]

Had a chance to get the lead lining from an old X-ray lab. About a ton of it. Gave a lot away and alloyed a lot with 50/50 bar solder. The one pound bars that are half Tin/half Lead. That way I could control the mix and get 20:1 and even made some bars of 30:1 for my bullets. Ran out of 30:1 and went to a big plumbing contractor store for more solder but NO MORE! Seems they have stopped carrying lead solder. Tried another similar store in a nearby town and no luck there either. I do have a source for pure tin so will have to try there for my alloying supplies. Ain't big brother grand?

Last I checked lead plumber's ingots for leading cast iron sewer pipe were still readily available.