Paint-on Gas Checks?

[El Chivo]

I was thinking about Paco Kelly's article about acetate gas checks he made from plastic sheeting and a hole puncher. Not much of a gas check, but enough to do the job. He punched them out and glued them on the base of the bullet.

So then I thought about an even easier way to put a thin layer of plastic on the bullet. Latex or acrylic paints are water-base, i.e., not flammable, and when dry are a thin layer of plastic. You could actually make them thick enough to peel off if the paint was put on thick. And there must be some kind of flame-retardant paint out there.

Now this is flammable when wet, but I would think nail polish might work as well. Has anybody experimented with paint-on gas checks?

[firefuzz]

I don't have a clue as to if it would work or not but I'm sure hoping someone does. Back to the top.

Rob

[wavetrain75]

Friend of mine just uses a manilla envelope. Use an empty case to punch them out. He had a .44 mag loaded so hot it was spitting molten lead out the barrel. Solved with one little (free) paper disc.

[J Miller]

Someone on another forum, or this one a long time back suggested Styrofoam gas checks. I tried that and it didn't seem to work well. I was attempting to stop the leading of bevel based bullets.
I'm wondering if one was to afix the paint or paper to the bevel based bullets it that might help a bit?

Joe

[FF1063]

Has anybody experimented with paint-on gas checks?

No, but what about those paints that have metal in them? I was thinking aluminum paint. After the solvents are gone, you should be left with just aluminum and the paint binder.

Dean Grennell wrote of punching out gas checks from aluminum cans and plastic coffee can lids using a punch and hammer.

I don't think anything short of a crimp on gas check will prevent leading that comes from hot gas reaching the sides of the bullet. About all we can do is keep the bullet bases from melting.

I use vegetable fiber wads from Midway in some revolver/carbine loads.
The fiber wads do help keep things clean. The bullet bases don't melt, unburned powder is greatly reduced, especially in revolvers, and soot is almost eliminated. This seems especially true in light .357 loads using hot, fast powders like Titegroup.
I experimented with glueing them to the bullets, but that's not much fun. I just push them into the case mouth after charging and let the bullets push them into place. Fiber wads are wider than the bullets (.360" for .357 bullets) and thick enough (.030" and .060") that they won't tip or move from the bullets base.

[Rusty]

The paint sounds like an interesting idea. I've read of people using onion skin paper for a paper patch bullet.

[Lefty Dude]

Plumber's Teflon tape works well.

[FF1063]

Plumber's Teflon tape works well.

Teflon!
Very high melting point, great, but how do you use it?

[olyinaz]

Nail polish is made to be tough and resilient. It would be helpful if someone made up a batch and did a water filled milk jugs capture test to see what the recovered bullets look like. I'm not a reloader (yet) so I can't help out on this but I'd sure be interested in the results.

Oly

[El Chivo]

I did find this url:


http://www.flamecontrol.com/d_paints_n.html


They have some paints that withstand up to 1500 F, one that requires heat curing.

Does anybody know what kind of temps are reached inside a case?

I see the melting point of lead is 625 F, there are paints on this site that protect up to and beyond that. Although lead alloys must have higher melting points.

Interesting that a paper gas check is enough to eliminate leading, I bet one of these paints would work. It's hot but brief, paint burns off, lead is cool enough to stay solid.

One concern might be unforseen material in the barrel. But then people use all manner of wads and sabots made of plastic.

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I found a thread on another forum with this info:

Old Grump
September 24, 2008, 01:29 AM
http://www.corebyindigo.com/PDF/articles/AdvImg3-04.pdf

30 cal. bullet fired at 1,900 fps can vary from 130 C at the tip to 320 C in the grooves to around 500 C at the base. This was measured with an IR camera in March 2004 by Advanced Imaging

---------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, if 500 C is as hot as it gets, one of these paints should keep it from melting.

Another thing mentioned was one of Paco's tricks, to cure the bullet base by heating and quenching, only you don't quench the tips so they stay soft. Then these bullets can be fired like gas-checked bullets.

I am thinking painting would be easier, however that manila envelope idea sounds pretty easy.

[AJMD429]

Plumber's Teflon tape works well.

Teflon! Very high melting point, great, but how do you use it?

I'm curious, too.

[pdawg.shooter]

Plumber's Teflon tape works well.

Teflon! Very high melting point, great, but how do you use it?

I'm curious, too.

Over the years of my paper patching I have tried teflon tape. BAD karma there. NO accuracy, leading, and strings of teflon every where. Paper works so much better, in rifles anyway. I dont patch for my handguns but all my rifles get paper. Jacketed bullet accuracy and velocity for just a little time invested.

[El Chivo]

Isn't the deal with paper patching that you use a much smaller bullet and then wrap the whole bullet? Lead never touches the barrel, only the skin of paper touches.

I'm talking about using regular-sized bullets and then treating the base so it doesn't melt.

So far I like the idea of using adhesive paper.

[Buck Elliott]

paper works well enough, if you can be sure it remains squared in the case. A thin "cookie" of beeswax or parafin, or even bullet lube will protect the base of the slug. I have punched thousands of wads from discarded card stock and poster paper.. Do they Help..? dunno, but they don't hurt...

[Lefty Dude]

Snooky Williams, developed the Teflon tape patch technique some 25 years ago. He wrote about the technique in his book on Winchester's, a very large book blue in color. My Brother has this book and I read the procedure there. He used this to shoot Vintage Winchester Lever guns with bores that were not in the best of shape. In the Book are actual targets that he recorded both before and after. Most groups were shrunk in half.
He also held a Patent on this technique. I believe he pass-on sometime in the Mid 1990's.

IIRC; the technique is something like this:

The Teflon tape is placed on the base of the bullet and wound around the shank several times. Then is shrunk with a candle or match. Much like shrink tubing. The tape is then very tight to the bullet. I could be off a bit on this but hopefully Y'all get the idea.

Maybe one of you has the Book and can further explain the technique.
I copied the pages from the Book, I try and find what I have.

[Griff]

On most of my BP loads I use a card wad cut from waxed paper milk or creamer containers. I punch them out using a 0.40 punch for my .36 cal revolvers and .40 cal Sharps, and use a .5 punch to cut them for .45 Colt and .45-70. If your lube is up to snuff for the fps you're shooting, then these will protect the base from flame cutting.

[O.S.O.K.]

I have a 30 caliber punch and die gas check maker. This is for a standard press. It makes gas checks from any thin metal such as beverage cans, flashing, etc.

Haven't tried it yet though.... but if I ever can't get gas checks, I'll still be able to make some.

Might get one in .44 cal too - for handguns.

That would at least cover one rifle caliber size and one handgun...

The paint idea is interesting though. Like Buck said above, a wax disk works too - there's an outfit that sells them on sheets in fact - many here have probably seen the ads in the gun mags.

[AJMD429]

Might get one in .44 cal too - for handguns. That would at least cover one rifle caliber size and one handgun...

All anyone really needs is a .44 Mag rifle and pistol...

[BAGTIC]

Many lead bullet alloys have a melting point lower than pure lead.

[Jeff H]

While you're bouncing iedas off one another, let me share this one that sounds good but isn't:

I tried wool felt wads in the .44 mag once.
Don't do it.
It smells really BAD.
Worked in the Ruger OA with Pyrodex, so I figured....

Not the best idea with a lot of slow-burning smokeless powder.

[Grizzly Adams]

Snooky Williams, developed the Teflon tape patch technique some 25 years ago. He wrote about the technique in his book on Winchester's, a very large book blue in color. My Brother has this book and I read the procedure there. He used this to shoot Vintage Winchester Lever guns with bores that were not in the best of shape. In the Book are actual targets that he recorded both before and after. Most groups were shrunk in half.
He also held a Patent on this technique. I believe he pass-on sometime in the Mid 1990's.

IIRC; the technique is something like this:

The Teflon tape is placed on the base of the bullet and wound around the shank several times. Then is shrunk with a candle or match. Much like shrink tubing. The tape is then very tight to the bullet. I could be off a bit on this but hopefully Y'all get the idea.

Maybe one of you has the Book and can further explain the technique.
I copied the pages from the Book, I try and find what I have.

+1 I believe the secret to the teflon technique is the shrinking of the tape. In any case ole Snooky's book is a must have addition to any lever gunner's library. It's a great read, and a wonderful reloading resource for lever guns.