Might Move To England

futura · Post by **futura** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:37 am

So I am considering taking a job in England. I'd be there on a 5 year contract.

I own a couple of lever rifles and a shotgun. In Canada they are all defined as unresticted firearms. Id like to take all three with me.

Is it possible to take these firearms to England with me or is the paperwork and red take just too difficult to get through?

Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Thanks Gents.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:46 am

Good luck; I don't know about the laws, but I do know there is no way I could stomach the socialist, police-state mindset over there; the bigger cities in the midwest U.S. are bad enough...!

Don't let them indoctrinate you too much...

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:17 am

I'd suggest you give up on the idea right now.
Besides the paperwork involved, you'd have strict storage & use restrictions.
You would pretty much not be able to take them anywhere but to a club range, unless things have changed since I was there.

Can't just load one in the car & go traipsing about the "wilderness".
Denis

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:38 am

I knew of a guy from Iowa that was a manager for Sun Valley Chickens, he did have a shotgun and did a bit of driven Pheasant shooting in Herefordshire.

I'm not sure what the law is for visitors bringing their own firearms to England but unless you have connections with someone who has hunting rights over private land you will find it difficult to use them.
A lot of Europeans bring their own rifles for deer stalking but that is an arranged beforehand expensive hunt.
Gun clubs have a probationary period before you can become a full member.

Personally I'd rather spend 5 years in Afghanistan.

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:08 am

I shipped a number of firearms back home after my 5-year stint in the USA. You would have to leave the firearms in Canada while you established residency in the UK and applied for firearm and shotgun certificates and to do that you would have to join a shooting club that did the type of shooting that interests you. As GK says, clubs have a 3 month probationary period, during which time they will not endorse your application for certificates but you will be allowed to use club guns. If the club has a club firearms certificate it might allow you to ship your guns and put them on the club "ticket" so you can use them straight away, or you might find a friendly club member with some spare slots on his own certificate who could keep them while your paperwork goes through.
This is a small, densely populated island. There is no "wilderness" or public land to hunt on and private land hunting is rare and expensive. Your leverguns would be limited to use on ranges for Gallery Rifle (like practical pistol but using leverguns), CAS or just plinking. A shotgun certificate does not limit you to as to how many shotguns you have or where you use them. Clay shooting is very popular - there are three sporting shoots within 2 miles of my house every Sunday, game shooting is expensive but vermin shooting is possible if you work at it. Be warned though that pump and auto shotguns are limited to 2 in the magazine and one in the chamber.
Once you have your UK paperwork in order you can have the guns shipped from Canada. In the US I had to use a shipper who had a firearms export licence but I don't know about Canadian law. My guns were shipped to the Fedex depot at Stansted Airport and i took my certificates along and picked them up.
If you took the job where would you be located? If in South London/Kent/Surrey areas my club could probably help you out.

Perry Owens

bigbore442001 · Post by **bigbore442001** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:13 am

futura wrote:So I am considering taking a job in England. I'd be there on a 5 year contract.

I own a couple of lever rifles and a shotgun. In Canada they are all defined as unresticted firearms. Id like to take all three with me.

Is it possible to take these firearms to England with me or is the paperwork and red take just too difficult to get through?

Does anyone have any experience doing this?

Thanks Gents.

There are some fine members here from Great Britain who can enlighten you on that topic. Gamekeeper gave some solid advice. I don't want to patronize you but you may want to look at all of the angles. Is this five year move worth it financially or put you in a position where you stand to gain a great deal? Also I do not know if you are married with children. If so, what will the impact be on them. In some ways if you do have children an education outside of your native land may be very enrichening. I have known some people who lived and worked abroad and sometimes it is a trial for the wife. What will the impact be on her? It may not be worth it for that reason alone.

I can feel your pain on the issue of hunting and shooting. I got the impression that unless you join a club you aren't going to do any type of hunting or shooting. The closest thing to free or low cost hunting or shooting would be agricultural pests with an air rifle.

twobit · Post by **twobit** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:14 am

Futura, Gamkeeper and Bigbore,

Let me just say thanks for some well thought out and informative replies to the question asked.
They are much better responses than those posted before.

Michael

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:48 am

Nancy and I lived there for a short time and it was a great day when we left.

There are many differences between there and the US and I assume Canada. Housing, travel and travel time, communication and language barrier, business environment and who-you-know is most important, cost of living.....

And if you have not watched the crashcourse, please do before undertaking such an endeavor.

If you do go, make darn sure you've negotiated well. And include a ticket home at a drop of a hat.

mouthpiece · Post by **mouthpiece** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:04 am

I thought Canada & England were about the same thing. Same language & laws. Same king,etc. How much differnent can it be, other than the snow? :>)

Big move, but sounds like an opportunity. And about that prior post about coming home,

Breathes there a man with soul so dead
Who never to himself hat said
'This is my own, my native land'
Upon returing from a foreign strand?

Best part of foreign travel is what it teaches you about home. Good luck.

wavetrain75 · Post by **wavetrain75** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:10 pm

All I know is what was told to me by a "Limey" that I worked with for a while after he moved over here. He had more appreciation of this country than most people that live here.

He was a teller of tall tales so I'm not sure how much is actually true, but this is a summary of what he told me:

"It's all muslims."

Handguns are not allowed.

Long guns must be locked up and the local police has access to them at any time.

Your spent brass must be accounted for and inventoried to match how much ammo you started with.

I asked him how many guns there are buried in people's backyards, "They're all too afraid [of getting caught with them]." Sad to see a great country end up like that.

perry owens · Post by **perry owens** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:59 pm

wavetrain75 wrote:All I know is what was told to me by a "Limey" that I worked with for a while after he moved over here. He had more appreciation of this country than most people that live here.

He was a teller of tall tales so I'm not sure how much is actually true, but this is a summary of what he told me:

Certainly a teller of tall tales but I don't think your friend was a shooter. Here are the facts:

"It's all muslims."

The 2009 Pew report showed a Muslim population in the UK of 1.65million, compared to 2.45million in the USA.

Handguns are not allowed.

Handguns are certainly restricted but they are not prohibited. I have 5.

Long guns must be locked up and the local police has access to them at any time.

All firearms must be securely stored and police may apply to inspect your security arrangements by appointment. They have no power of access to your firearms without a search warrant unless you are suspected of a crime.

Your spent brass must be accounted for and inventoried to match how much ammo you started with.

This is nonsense. It's true that your licence does list the number of rounds you can possess at any time, in my case 12000, but there are never any checks.

I asked him how many guns there are buried in people's backyards, "They're all too afraid [of getting caught with them].

Nobody knows the answer to this but it is known that millions of shotguns "disappeared" when shotgun licencing was introduced. My dealer friends regularly get war relics and antique guns handed in to them for disposal.
Perry Owens

Seagoing · Post by **Seagoing** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:30 pm

Go for it.
Leave the rifles at home with a friend if you must.
Or, start the paperwork, expect delays, join a club and receive them when all the hurdles are cleared.
The experience will be worth it to you and yours.
2 leverguns and 1 shotgun vs. 5 years of life experience.
No contest.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:23 pm

If the money is right....and you dont mind being away from home....and the good ole USA,
go for it...

I might think about that for a while....
But for me...for all the stuff that I like to do.....that you cant do any of it there...
So I would not go....

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:47 am

I can endorse what Perry Owen has to say on firearm ownership and use in England, it's not always easy but it "IS" possible.

Compared to the USA there's not a lot here but ancient history and a few good pubs.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:07 am

Personally, if I had a chance to go to England for an extended stay I'd go. It will allow you to see things you can't by staying at home. If you want to go through the process of bringing your firearms over, as stated already, start the process. I'd hate to be without my firearms, but you can't carry them for what I'd really want them for anyway. But, the oppurtunity to see that part of the world more or less on your employer's dime is an oppurtunity of a lifetime. One I couldn't pass up.

KWK · Post by **KWK** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:03 pm

After looking into it, I decided it wasn't worth all the effort and delay to try to bring firearms to England. When we moved there from Australia, I went through the US to drop my rifles off at a relative's house. There's some neat old used rifles there, and you might find something you want to export.

Archery is common there and less hassle than firearms, so take this as an opportunity to pick up a new hunting skill.

Let's face it folks, the US is slowly sinking, so let's not be too uppity. England is better than the US in a few respects but worse in others. On the whole, I look back favorably on my 2 1/2 years there. Send a PM, futura, if you want a discussion on the pros and cons as I see them.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:25 pm

When I was there, I was in Herefordshire.
I pretty much agree with gamekeeper, I refer to it as my six weeks in an English jail.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Compared to the general freedoms you guy's have over us on this piddly little island don't compare.

Try and find out what clubs are available in the area of your work and drop them a line.

As an alternative using club guns if it be rifle, ML pistols or clay shooting may pacify you.

If hunting is your thing, deer stalking is widely available. Possibly pre-booking 5years of stalking visits may be possible on a temp licence and take it from there.

Good luck.

Nath.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:10 pm

perry owens wrote:The 2009 Pew report showed a Muslim population in the UK of 1.65million, compared to 2.45million in the USA.

Yeah but they're all cab drivers in New York City so the rest of us don't have to deal with them.

Just kiddin'!

Oly

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:14 pm

http://www.met.police.uk/firearms_licensing/faqs.html

Please scroll about half way down.

N

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:15 pm

olyinaz wrote:
perry owens wrote:The 2009 Pew report showed a Muslim population in the UK of 1.65million, compared to 2.45million in the USA.
Yeah but they're all cab drivers in New York City so the rest of us don't have to deal with them.

Just kiddin'!

Oly

N.

JFE · Post by **JFE** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:38 pm

We moved from Australia to UK in the early 90's and I had heard it was all too difficult and had resigned myself to 2-3 years without firearms. I stored my fireams at home and didnt even attempt to take them. After settling there I soon found that it really wasnt difficult to join a club and even go hunting. I ended up buying new firearms and its probably more cost effective to do that too, plus you get to buy more guns !

Unless you can organise a farmer to will let you shoot on their property (not impossible if you are there for 5 years) you would need to use a guide for your hunting, but their rates for locals are very reasonable compared to what they charge well heeled Europeans. They do have some funny rules like you cant generally use a rifle larger than 9.3 for hunting (though you can have them for range use) and your firearm certificate lists ammo but these were not deal breakers for me.

My suggestion is to determine where you are likely to be living and try to find a good gun club nearby. We lived in Hertfordshire and I was very happy with the club that I joined. There were some great hunting opportunities in and around that county too.

Do it if you can. The experience will be worth it.

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:58 pm

I'm sorry but I would not move to any Country where I could not carry a firearm for self protection. I don't mean to offend anyone English, but you have let your Govt. enslave you with all your regulations and handgun confiscation. What are you going to do if they tell you to turn in all your firearms? I find it preposterous to have to explain to a Police Officer why you need a firearm. As a free man that should be self evident. I know some states and cities in the US have headed in the direction of firearms regulation, that is why I don't live there. Remember what Mr Heston said. Sorry to ramble on. God Bless.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:02 pm

rodeo kid wrote:I'm sorry but I would not move to any Country where I could not carry a firearm for self protection. I don't mean to offend anyone English, but you have let your Govt. enslave you with all your regulations and handgun confiscation. What are you going to do if they tell you to turn in all your firearms? I find it preposterous to have to explain to a Police Officer why you need a firearm. As a free man that should be self evident. I know some states and cities in the US have headed in the direction of firearms regulation, that is why I don't live there. Remember what Mr Heston said. Sorry to ramble on. God Bless.

rodeo kid, you don't offend me because you are correct, there's just too many sheeple in this darn country.

Anyway futura, if you do decide to move over here I'd be happy to offer any help I can.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:15 pm

rodeo kid wrote:I'm sorry but I would not move to any Country where I could not carry a firearm for self protection. I don't mean to offend anyone English, but you have let your Govt. enslave you with all your regulations and handgun confiscation. What are you going to do if they tell you to turn in all your firearms? I find it preposterous to have to explain to a Police Officer why you need a firearm. As a free man that should be self evident. I know some states and cities in the US have headed in the direction of firearms regulation, that is why I don't live there. Remember what Mr Heston said. Sorry to ramble on. God Bless.

Enslave, a perfect description. You are correct RK. That very notion of having to explain is the very reason I have never voted in this land my whole life and never will unless one day some authority actually goes and bloody well recognises me as an individual being of good standing and guilty of no crime untill proven other wise.

N.

futura · Post by **futura** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:34 am

Thank you very much for your input fellas.

For me the most powerful argument is the opportunity for adventure and new experiences. London is a great city and the chance to easily travel to other points in Europe would be fantastic-taking a girl to Paris for the weekend sounds as good as it gets.

I’m Canadian so I’ll be missing my beloved Canada; our wild outdoors and the informed reasonableness of my country’s population and government. That being said I’ve always gotten on well in England and respect the way the UK has made its way in the world. Further, the Brits seem to give Canucks a break.

I would live either in South East London or on the South East coast: London to get the experience of living in one of the greatest cities in the world or on the coast for the county life. I volunteer with the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary as a search and rescue crew member and would like to do the same with the RNLI.

After doing some more research and reading your posts I think I'll leave my firearms in Canada. If I end up joining a gun club in England or make friends with a land owner I'll just buy the applicable 'go bang' tool.

Once again thanks for the posts and thanks for the offers of help. Most appreciated. I especially appreciated the input from the Brits and people with direct experience in living in England.

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