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I'm considering some heavy loads in my Colt Combat Commander, and am mulling about barrel length. The Commander's barrel is shortened compared to the standard 1911. If I get a standard length barrel fitted to my pistol, is there a problem with the muzzle sticking out of the slide??
Um...you mean other than the barrel sticking out past the slide??
Two things come to mind. First, people have had barrels fitted that stick out past the slide for years, often with porting etc. so it's certainly not a "problem" fro that perspective, but I never liked the idea of that barrel hanging out there where it's going to get dinged unless you have leather to protect it properly. Dunno, maybe not an issue, but it bugs me! You know what I mean.
Second, why are you concerned about barrel length? You are going to get most of the increase in velocity due to higher pressures even with your Commander barrel. The extra inch (and I can't recall if it's a full inch or a half inch...) isn't going to make that big a difference and you'd be losing the compact feature that makes the Commander what it is.
Lastly, if you want a full sized 1911...GET ONE!! Any excuse to get a new 1911 is a good one!
My commander size .45 is one inch shorter than a full size. the barrel sticking out would not be a problem function wise though I don't like the look unless its threaded and has a silencer on it. I'm guessing you want the extra inch to maximize the effect of gained velocity etc, so you could go the barrel route or you could get a new "upper". For that matter, so long as your frame size is full, you could get out to 7 inch length barrel. I personally would keep the commander length barrel. I do have a full length (5 inch) upper conversion to .22lr for mine. Good luck with your choice. Do you have an alloy frame or steel?
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
I have a Colt Combat Commander I'd like to load with some heavy ammo. I'm pondering barrel length, and see a standard barrel installed on the Commander. Is there a problem with the extra barrel length sticking out front?
Ahem, gentlemen; the Combat Commander has a 4-¼" barrel, the Gov't Model has a 5". (As measured from bolt face to muzzle, the way Colt measures them). What other manufacturers do, well... they ain't Colt's!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession! AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
I've seen that done (the 5" barrel on a Commander) but I don't see the advantage. Having both Commanders and the standard Government guns, I don't see that barrel length gives you much. Slide length does lengthen sight radius and helps some shooters with the sights though.
By heavy do you mean high velocity for the standard weights of 185-230 gr. bullets or do you mean heavier than normal bullets? I'm interested because I'm about to begin a project of loading for the .45 Auto Rim.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Actually Hobie, you do get an advantage with 45acp in longer barrels. My std Glock 21 chrono's some of my light 200grn loads with 4.4grn TiteGroup @ 831fps and 230grn Win White Box @ 889fps. The same loads shot through my custom Glock 21L with it's 6" barrel yield 889fps and 925fps respectfully. You're right when you mention the sight radius advantage of longer slides. My G21L has a 28% longer sight radius than my std G21.
Steve Retired and Living the Good Life No Matter Where You Go, There You Are
I don't have the figures to hand but while that 3/4" (the Government model barrel is 5" the Commander's 4¼") should give an advantage it doesn't with some loads and does with others. Some of the loads had differences of average velocity less than the difference between any given shot in either barrel. 15-20 fps is nothing to worry over. I imagine that it depends a lot on the two barrels being compared. Let's remember, the question isn't about Glocks, it is about Colts.
Will you generally see big differences in the 3½" compared to the 6"? I hope so but there was a recent article I read where the difference with a particular +P load wasn't all that great and with those particular bullets the expansion varied hardly at all.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
I'm not a huge fan of magnum 45 ACP loads in a 1911. Even with heavier springs, you're going to increase wear considerably. The 1911 is a great design, but it's won't hold up to as well as some newer designs. At least not without a rebuild.
From what I understand, the Combat Commander is all steel....although I don't have a magnet to test it.
I'm looking at Paco's heavy bullet at somewhat faster than normal 45 ACP velocities.
This would not be used for anything approaching frequent use. Load development, and occational practice to stay current with it.
When my wife (all five feet three inches of kindergarten teacher) learned how to shoot a handgun, we were fortunate to have a wide variety to practice with. She had a really hard time with revolvers as they were front heavy with the ammo in front of the fist. She eventually settled on a Colt 1911 Officers Model in 45 ACP. The recoil was managable for her and the ammo was in her fist instead of hanging out front.
Bears......my wife and I will be moving to our home-to-retire-to later this year, and there are black bears in the area, although black bears in Preston County aren't too awfully big.....a 200 pounder would be a monster here.
So, I'm thinking of using some of Paco's loads in my Combat Commander for her to carry around the new property. An extra inch of barrel should increase balistics at least a bit.
Lobo in West Virginia
Old List Veteran..Five Years..Five Hundred Posts
I recently chronoed a cast 220g TC ACP in two pistols
from the 4" XD I got 821 fps for the cast
and 798 fps from 230g ball for reference
from the 5" 1911 I got 848 fps for the cast
and 842 fps from 230g ball for reference
after reading Paco's article it looks like I should be
looking for 1100 fps from my lightweights...
I am going to be shooting some 255g cast when they get here.....
Grizz
Not a lot of velocity difference there...
Yeah, the ball had a bigger difference. Curious.
I'm interested to see if the spread stays the same if I load for higher velocity. Do you have any data, or know what range the top safe velocity is with 220g cast?
I've considered the 460 Rowland, but if my wife cannot handle it, then I've got a ballistic duplicate for my revolver, and I can buy a lot of ammunition components for $300.
IIRC, the Combat Commander has the steel frame, the Commander has the alloy frame.
The meek shall inherit the earth, but I reserve the mineral rights!
All the knowledge in the world, is of no use to fools! (Eagles-long road out of Eden)
Thunder50 wrote:IIRC, the Combat Commander has the steel frame, the Commander has the alloy frame.
That's correct. You'll see the aluminum framed Commander now referred to as the Lightweight (LW) Commander. A lot of us remember when there was no other Commander.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Years ago (25 or so) I read of a guy that used the 250 gr Keith bullets in the 45 auto. I loaded up 50 or 100 to try them, and they fed fine in my Colt Combat Commander. I seated them below the crimp groove obviously, don't recall exactly how I arrived at seating depth, probably just trial and error. Anyway, the load was an even grain number of Unique, either 6 or 7 grains. My "standard" load is 6 1/2 grs Unique, in the old books it was considered a factory equivalent load with the 230 gr bullet. The Keith bulleted load wasnt "high velocity", just "standard" velocity, like 850 fps if I recall correctly. Still, a much improved load for 45 auto, duplicating a factory 45 Colt load with a far better bullet than the RN 230 or factory RN 255 of the 45 Colt. I was using the true Keith bullet, thrown from a Lyman mold, not a commercial SWC.
BTW, if anyone knows the charge that I'm refering to, I'd appreciate hearing it, I'd like to load more of them to try again.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
I'm going to load the Keith bullet in the Auto Rim. Same difference except I can seat them out and roll crimp into the crimp groove. I have seen recommendations of anywhere from 6.0 to 8.0 gr. of Unique or Universal. I'm thinking that 8.0 gr. is TOO MUCH and as I'm seating them, 7.5 gr. will likely be the max. We'll see, I'm going to shoot these in my 25-2 Jovino snub gun. Although one can load the ACP and Auto Rim identically, in this situation you'd have to seat the bullet deeper in the ACP case to both ensure headspacing on the case mouth and to keep the COL to the correct length for the magazines. In shooting other SWCs through my 1911 type pistols finding the correct seating depth has been critical to proper functioning. I have come to much prefer modern JHPs with ogives that duplicate standard ball. One of the best has been the Remington Golden Saber.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
I've never used a five inch barrel in a Commander length pistol. But probably the answer is it depends. If the five inch is one diameter for it's full length it may work. The extra 3/4 " probably won't make much difference. Large bore, low pressure rounds gain with length, but I would guess 20 or 30 fps. The rule of thumb for something high pressure like the .357 or .44 is usually 35 fps per inch or so.
Not being a fan of factory ammo and being a fan of Elmer, I load my own.
Most of my .45 autos are Smiths. There is a finger of steel on the slide lock that goes into the frame and touches the magazine follower, when the mag is empty. This finger is quite a bit longer on the Smith than the 1911. Using a true (or truer anyway) Keith in the Smith doesn't work. The meplat (the flat on the end of the bullet nose) is wide enough to lift this finger and that locks the slide back when you don't want it to.
My solution to this is to use a current production Lyman 452424 mould. It's meplat is smaller than what Keith originally designed and it doesn't come anywhere near that finger.
The other trick to know is that almost all .45 Auto chambers have little to zero throat. What this means is that when you seat the bullet, if the front driving band is sticking out of the case much more that .025 ( 1/32 inch or so) then the band will strike and partially engage the rifling. The bullet will be quite happy there, and won't want to come out of the chamber unless you fire it. So you have to seat deeply. When you're testing your seating depth, take the barrel out and try it that way. If you try it barrel in, the cartridge can really be hard to get out.
Remember that reducing case space by deep seating can greatly raise pressures.
Now my Smiths all have fully supported chambers and these loads are safe in my guns and my guns only. Most 1911s aren't fully supported.
My Lyman 452424 weighs 260 grains sized and lubed. I size about .0015 over bore diameter, that keeps the leading to zero. For a standard load I use 4.7 grains of Universal Clays. That gives me about 790 fps out of my 3.75" barrrels.
I could go heavier and have. But I'm quite happy with that one. I kicks about the same as ball and quite a bit less than a +P of any weight. I knew of a deputy sherrif who used his Gold Cup with the Keith to stop a fleeing felon (back when you could). He said just as the trigger broke, a stop sign post got in between his bullet and the felon. The Keith went through the post and took two inches of shin bone out of his leg. Stopped him just fine! The penatrative power of a heavy SWC is difficult to over estimate.
I inspect each case for flash hole, each primer for priming coumpound and anvil, then each case for primer and powder. I use a progressive but I'm quite slow and careful with loads I carry.
Sorry for the long post, but you asked! Good luck.
Catshooter, what do you think of the concept of the .45 Super cart on a 1911 platform? I notice Pace didn't mention it in his article, despite the fact he favors hot loads. What're your thoughts? Thanx, jd45
if i were to use my 45 for hunting...i may consider hot or heavy loads...
but if its used for self defence....i dont think its a good idea at all....
Heavy loads make it a lot harder for quick follow up target aquisition....
too much recoil is a bad thing....if your in a fire fight....
and another thing....if i hit you with one standard load 45
you aint getting up...
I've never owned a .45 Super, so this is just my opinion.
The 1911 was not designed for it. That, to me, is almost the begining and the end of the story. I'm quite sure that one won't stand up to a lot of Super shooting. But if you're not going to do alot of shooting, or you don't care that you'll probably beat the gun to death in fairly short order, then what the hell, go for it.
There are lots of platforms that a person can get the same or higher ballistics from without killing the weapon, but of course you know that.
One thing I really like about the .45 auto is that in the field when a shot suddenly presents itself I can take it without undue hearing damage. The higher pressure the round, the louder it gets.
I think that the standard .45 auto will do most of what I want a pistol to do, particularly with the loads I use. That big heavy bullet penetrates far more than you might think it will.
Both my commander and full size like the white box ranger 230 hp. 8 shots in the head at close range is gonna give the biggest bear that ever lived a very bad day.
Dont be a WUS. Get the 6 inch barrel and stop being sissy about it !
(smiling of course)
In fact, Brownells use to have a 16 inch barrel for 1911.
yep I said sixteen. Go for all the gusto.
tman wrote:Both my commander and full size like the white box ranger 230 hp. 8 shots in the head at close range is gonna give the biggest bear that ever lived a very bad day.
Perhaps give them a bad day, but it may not save you. Hollow points aren't a good idea for bears.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
tman wrote:Both my commander and full size like the white box ranger 230 hp. 8 shots in the head at close range is gonna give the biggest bear that ever lived a very bad day.
Perhaps give them a bad day, but it may not save you. Hollow points aren't a good idea for bears.
totally agree. bears and hollowpoints should be kept as far apart as possible.
Now a hard cast bullet with a flat sharp meplat, that'd give you some breathing room.
