and it's MADE IN AMERICA!!

[JimT]

http://www.mossberg.com/images/dcatalog ... rGuide.pdf

[dz86]

Good for Mossberg.
If they meet with some sales success, perhaps they will expand their line to include different calibers and other options.
I'm looking forward to seeing one "in the flesh".

Dave

[Bitmap]

Looks like it has a silly tang safety on it. A really big one, too. Funny, they don't want to talk about that in their catalog. They even stuck it on the rimfire version. At least Winchester spared us that the first time around.

[JimT]

now c'mon guys. You are not going to have any modern American-made guns without some sort of safety. Fact of life.

Don't run them down. Support them.

Unless you want all your guns to come from overseas.

Besides .. that sort of thing just creates job opportunities for people like Nate Kiowa Jones.

My old friend Deacon Deason who owned Bear Hug Grips said he just loved the horrible factory grips on handguns. THEY KEPT HIM IN BUSINESS!!

So a gun is built with some things you don't like? No big deal. Especially when THEY ARE MADE IN AMERICA!!

[JimT]

ooop! Didn't see the post below when I posted this .. sorry guys ...

Here's more on the Mossberg ...

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 68&start=0

Remember boys, this is an old company. They have been building guns for a long time. I'd guess they may have bought up some tooling that was no longer being used and adapted it to their company policies.

[Bitmap]

now c'mon guys. You are not going to have any modern American-made guns without some sort of safety. Fact of life.

Don't run them down. Support them.

Unless you want all your guns to come from overseas.

Besides .. that sort of thing just creates job opportunities for people like Nate Kiowa Jones.

My old friend Deacon Deason who owned Bear Hug Grips said he just loved the horrible factory grips on handguns. THEY KEPT HIM IN BUSINESS!!

So a gun is built with some things you don't like? No big deal. Especially when THEY ARE MADE IN AMERICA!!

Every gun has a safety - between the user's ears. No matter how many mechanical gizmos you put on it an idiot will still find a way to hurt himself or someone else.

T/C Contenders and Encores are made in the USA aren't they?

Ruger double action revovlers are made in the USA aren't they? Ok, ok, Ruger puts magazine disconnectors in their semiauto handguns these days but they haven't updated the revolvers, yet.

[Leverdude]

You missed Jims point I think. The reality is a no saftey gun isn't going to happen in America, or likely anywhere else any more. Theyre on the Rossi's & Jap levers too. Just how it is. I sure dont like it but wouldn't let it stop me from buying one of these if I were in the market.
We need to support folks building guns in the US.
On another note they dont apear to be rebounding hammer guns & that bugs me more than a saftey I can ignore anyway.

[JimT]

Ruger has an internal safety on the their single actions. I am not sure about the DA guns .. haven't owned one.

TC has an "automatic hammer block safety"

I am NOT saying you have to LIKE the safeties.

I am saying they are a fact of life Those of us who appreciate firearms need to support those companies still making guns in the USA.

[45-70-]

WAY TO GO MOSSBERG!!!!!!!!!

They have a nice line up for 2008. Are they making the SXS? I have got to get me one of those turkey guns. Well, at least I know what I want for next Christmas.

[cubrock]

It will be interesting to see their pricing. While they aren't quite as good looking as the Winchesters (especially the rimfire version), I am more than happy to have a "new" levergun added to the market.

Sure hope they come out with them in pistol cartridges and in trapper configuration.

[AmBraCol]

Ruger double action revovlers are made in the USA aren't they? Ok, ok, Ruger puts magazine disconnectors in their semiauto handguns these days but they haven't updated the revolvers, yet.

Take a look at the New Vaquero....

There's a "safety" built in, subtlety. "Safeties" are a fact of life until such time as the public cries "No MORE!" and starts stringing up the judges, politicians and lawyers who bring about such travesties.

But it's a matter of world view. Since no one is responsible for their own actions anymore then manufacturers have to cover their own backs if they want to stay in business. Until such time as the US turns back to God and recognizes personal responsibility as a fact of life, such things as "safeties" on guns will continue to proliferate.

Such is life when you're just "a product of the goo" instead of made in the image of God. After all, you've no free will and are merely a programmed bunch of "star stuff" that's been programmed by the society around you. Therefore you can't be trusted.

In the meantime, there's plenty of good ol' used guns on the market... sans "safety"...

[J Miller]

OK, I made the comments on the other thread that this new Mosberg was a coarse copy of the Win 94AE. With all the safety gizmos. Somewhere I read that all the tooling had been sold to an unknown entity. So this gun makes sense.
I made no derogatory comments about this new Mosberg in the other thread, nor will I here. I DO want to see one. Weather or not I buy one depends on how much alteration they did to the actions.

Now, to the safeties.

Here is the truth of the matter.

Safety = a manually operated mechanical device designed into the action of a gun. The use of which is optional. Such as the tang or cross bolt safety on the Marlins or Winchesters, thumb safety on 1911s.
Rebounding hammers, transfer bars, and those sorts of modified actions are not safeties per say, although some people believe they are.

Function Prevention Device = a device that renders the gun non functional to anyone who does not possess an unlocking device.
The key locks as found on Rugers, S&Ws, Taurus and other brands of guns are not safeties, they are function prevention devices.


Joe

[JReed]

Way cool I dont have time right now to look for the price. But I like what I see so far .

[DerekR]

I'm proud of these guys. I've never owned a Mossberg, but I need to send them some business. On consecutive pages you have a NEW levergun and that 4X4 bolt gun. Completely different ends of the spectrum. I hope they sell a trruck load of these guns.

[JimT]

The key locks as found on Rugers, S&Ws, Taurus and other brands of guns are not safeties, they are function prevention devices.
Joe

I reject your reality and substitue my own

While your assesment is correct, the reality is, they are called "safeties".

Since they are called that, and since perception is reality with most of the public, they are safeties, at least in their minds.

It doesn't matter what they are or what they are called. We ain't living in the 19th century anymore where folks took personal responsibility for their own actions. And gun owners are just as bad about looking to blame someone else for their own mistakes as anyone. What we have is a direct result of that.

now .. BACK to the Thread .. It's Made in America!! Cool.

[J Miller]

The key locks as found on Rugers, S&Ws, Taurus and other brands of guns are not safeties, they are function prevention devices.
Joe

I reject your reality and substitue my own

While your assesment is correct, the reality is, they are called "safeties".

Since they are called that, and since perception is reality with most of the public, they are safeties, at least in their minds.

It doesn't matter what they are or what they are called. We ain't living in the 19th century anymore where folks took personal responsibility for their own actions. And gun owners are just as bad about looking to blame someone else for their own mistakes as anyone. What we have is a direct result of that.

now .. BACK to the Thread .. It's Made in America!! Cool.

I learned many years ago when I was working in auto parts that just because it's new, doesn't mean it's good.

Well, to continue with that thought; just because it's made in America, doesn't mean it's good.

IF it is YIPPIEEEEEE, lets all go buy one. But since it appears to be a coarse copy of a gun I didn't like ............... I'll wait till I have one in my hand to examine, then I'll decide.

Joe

[JimT]

Good enough Joe. I never meant to imply we should all run out and buy one.

But I do want to support and encourage them. Too many of our manufacturing companies have either gone overseas or disappeared altogether.

[Blaine]

Good enough Joe. I never meant to imply we should all run out and buy one.

But I do want to support and encourage them. Too many of our manufacturing companies have either gone overseas or disappeared altogether.

The companies and unions have a TON of the fault to suck up hard, as well. When Detroit started turning out poop, Japan filled the niche with quality...... That lesson is over 40 years old....ya think they would have learned by now..... I try to get quality as my money comes too hard to waste it....I hope it is USA made, but.............

[cubrock]

Good enough Joe. I never meant to imply we should all run out and buy one.

But I do want to support and encourage them. Too many of our manufacturing companies have either gone overseas or disappeared altogether.

+1.

All too often, I think we forget that one way we support and encourage manufacturers is with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. We can grouse about locks, safeties, finishes, etc all we want and even not buy the product. BUT, we do the company a bigger favor when we write them letters with objective, constructive criticism. They may or may not change the way we do things, but we let them know what we would like to see different - be it price, caliber offerings, finish, lack of lawyer-locks, etc.

I have written Ruger to tell them I want a .44 Special and .45 Colt on the 50th Flat Top frame. I've written USFA to tell them I'd be first in line to buy a .44 Special New Frontier replica with a 4 3/4 or 5 1/2 inch barrel. I plan on writing Browning soon to request they make another run of Winchester 92s and 86s.

So, if there is something we don't like about the new Mossbergs, I say we write them a letter thanking them for bringing out another USA-made levergun and letting them know what we like about it and where they can improve.

Just my 2 cents.

[Blaine]

Another thought: Some of the very best vehicles (cars, trucks, motorcycles) are made in America, but owned and are under Foreign control.....go figger As soon as American Unions start basing promotions, etc, on quality work instead of seniorority, we'll be stuck with sub-standard stuff and a resualtant bleeding of jobs....

[Leverdude]

Is Mossberg a union company?
In America no company needs to be union. They can pay their workers the same rates as Rossi in Brazil or Miroku in Japan I guess. Who cares if they starve.

Its easy to blame unions, but its not really that simple. If it were these companies would just chitcan them. Not all unions are equal either. Some are seniority based & some performance based for advancement. Some, like mine, stay out of that altogether only insureing that its members get fair wages & benefits.



Your union did ok by you no?

[Blaine]

Is Mossberg a union company?
In America no company needs to be union. They can pay their workers the same rates as Rossi in Brazil or Miroku in Japan I guess. Who cares if they starve.

Its easy to blame unions, but its not really that simple. If it were these companies would just chitcan them. Not all unions are equal either. Some are seniority based & some performance based for advancement. Some, like mine, stay out of that altogether only insureing that its members get fair wages & benefits.



Your union did ok by you no?

Non-Union and have nearly trippled my starting wage in 10 years.....I'm good There's a difference beween outragious pay and benefits and fair wages......

You're a craftsman....if your work got shoddy, you would not work anytime again soon after word got out......Detroit and etc, just kept churning out the same old stuff and lot's of Americans fired them and went elsewhere They's gotten way better and they need to earn the trust back again (my '03 F150 was flawless and I'd get another)

[leveractionjunkie]

Guns that don't go through the USA don't require safeties, believe it or not. Here in Canada the land of Strict Gun Control we regularly get Puma 92's and other guns with no safeties when they come directly from Brazil.

Personally I can't wait to see how Mossberg prices these rifles if they're anything like any of their other guns I don't think it would break the bank to give em a try.

[Abilene]

If it shoots and functions as well as the 935 I use on turkey and waterfoul it'll be just fine in the deer woods. May have to add one to the collection. Abilene

[86er]

If'n I get a new 30-30 from anybody it is likely to be this Mossberg. I don't like the Marlin cross-bolt safety, and I can't handle the new Henry price tag. I hope this gun is priced under $500 (way under but that might be too hopeful) and built right. They've already considered sight and optic options by making a versatile mounting system. With any luck the rest of the gun will make sense too.

[J Miller]

I would have hoped that they'd D&T them for a side mount receiver sight.

I am not a scope person and I resent ( yes that's the word ) these companies not D&T'ing them for side mount sights. The top mount receiver sights are to clunky to my way of thinking. And the drilling of 2 little holes cannot cost that much money to the manufacturer. The initial cost of buying one pre-drilled far over shadows the inconvenience of having to find a local gunsmith to do it.

American gun manufacturing companies have a history of not listening to their customers. That is why there are so many actively overworked custom gunsmiths. So I ...... I ........ actually lost my train of thought

Joe

[TedH]

I applaud them for making a go of it. I'd like to see one in person.

[Old Savage]

You boys are beatin' a dead horse on the safety issue. Might as well listen to JimT on this; everybody already knows the position and the same old tired cliches aren't going to change anything.

[SmokeEater2]

You boys are beatin' a dead horse on the safety issue. Might as well listen to JimT on this; everybody already knows the position and the same old tired cliches aren't going to change anything.

+1 to Old Savage's post. Besides,There's another new US made levergun looming on the horizon! Seem's like a good time to celebrate being alive and free with another levergun to me.

[J Miller]

Well then daw gonnit it we are to be forced to accept these safetied up guns, then the gun makers should make them look decent. These hollowed out hammers with holes drilled in them are just hideously unacceptable. If they are going to make them, they must make them palatable and useful. Otherwise my opinion will not change.

And guys I'm old enough now that I don't give a hoot if I ever buy another new gun. I'm happy with those pre- lawyered up ones that I have. That's why I never did and probably won't ever buy a Win 94AE with a CB or tang safety. I will not be cajoled or manipulated into purchasing something I consider unnecessary and / or ugly.
At least the one on the Marlins are easily gotten rid of. That's the only reason I ignored the one on my new Marlin as long as I did.

OK, rant over, gonna go out in the dark and dig my Nissan Pathfinder out of the foot of snow we got last night.
If I don't come back you'll know I froze into a big snow man.

Joe

[Leverdude]

Blaine said,

Non-Union and have nearly trippled my starting wage in 10 years.....I'm good Wink There's a difference beween outragious pay and benefits and fair wages......

You're a craftsman....if your work got shoddy, you would not work anytime again soon after word got out......Detroit and etc, just kept churning out the same old stuff and lot's of Americans fired them and went elsewhere Wink They's gotten way better and they need to earn the trust back again (my '03 F150 was flawless and I'd get another)

Agreed, I just pipe up when it sounds like folks are bashing unions in general.
Like most things they just aint all the same & you cant fairly lump them all together as lazy overpaid slobs, like you can with politicians.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Mossberg has allways built a good and dependable product, maybe not the nicest pretty wise but strong and dependable none the less.
On the SAFETY... no coment till I see one.

Made in the USA!!

[Ben_Rumson]

Funny thing to me..I don't recall even once ever hearing anybody around here gripe or criticize the Savage 99 LeverGuns for having safeties..I have heard of preferences for one type or the other though..Mebbe it's cuz they don't look like a rifle from the old west type era?