OT: Some of you guys make me feel old.

[Old Savage]

What I am saying is the iron sighted type rifle is largely inappropriate for many of the shooting opportunities that arise out here, as you know from being here. Not to say you cannot find appropriate opportunities for any type rifle suitable for the the game at hand.

[Hillbilly]

I will stay in irons as long as I can too. My distant vision is better than 20/20 with contacts... but those really ruin my near vision. 51, bifocals, astigmatism and my near vision has been sketchy for a few years now... come from a long line of early bifocal wearers.

One scope... on a rifle I use to shoot tiny bullets at tiny objects at a distance. 4x on a Ruger 77/22. Peeps? Old tech... and I like old tech for the sake of old tech. I can still shoot buckhorns.. but I am starting to get fussy about the front blade on the lever actions. Brass beads seem to still work ok.

If I was hunting in a 200 yard world... with 200+ yard capable firearms optics would be part of the plan.

Handguns? Those are getting tricky. Planning on adding Novacks with a gold bead front to my 1911 carry gun. Getting a pair of shooting glasses that will work with all the rest.

[COSteve]

As another one living in a large western state, Fred's point is well taken. Animals are usually sighted at long ranges here. Shooting from a blind or tree stand is virtually unheard of out here too. So the decision one has to make is 1) are you going to hunt up close to it or 2) are you going to try for a long range shot?

The long range shot is thought to have the advantage of you being able to 'setup' for it, i.e. get out shooting sticks or a rest, dial in the range with a range finder, and then squeeze off a shot. Close up on the ground you're more likely to have to shoot quickly without ranging the distance and/or setting up for it.

Out here in the wide open west, long range shooting, like the hyper-velocity magnum calibers have become the popular norm in the last 50 years and the art of hunting up to the game has fallen out of favor. It follows then that scopes have dominated as they are a more effective long range sighting system than iron sights, especially for an aging hunter.

Whether that's a good thing or not is something for debate. As one who learned to hunt using a scope, I just assumed it was the best approach. However, as I've gotten older and now have the time to experiment, I'm not sure that it's true. Hunting and stalking takes time and skill and I'm thinking that may be more fun now.

[madman4570]

See Joe, You need to move or at least visit east my friend.(Deep woods and close encounters of a good kind)
Can just see you now hunting Cahill Mountain for Bear/Deer in the Big woods with your 30-30
The Fields/Power lines and firebreaks are ok for about the first part of the first day here but the bigger bucks know games on and go to "woods" then at night go to the fields!

Just somthing about being on the ground behind a couple V'd together tree trunks hearing a twig snap then suddenly seeing this white crowned beauty appear from nowhere at 40yds away and very slowing working his way through the woods with fogged breath appearing from his nose/mouth. Your waiting/keeping it together to just ever so quietly/slowly getting ready for that one shot as his head "for that one instant" disappears behind a huge hemlock.

Close encounters like that Joe? (You would hunt forever more)
But in the meantime, keep up your shooting the way you are doing cause it keeps you sharp!
Wish you could hunt with me up here just once to see!

[RIHMFIRE]

Hey Methuselah.....I mean Joe!

[Mescalero]

Another blast from the past.
Joe is 1 day older than me.
I started with scopes, even worked for a scope maker for 5 years.
Just now getting into irons from all the bad influence here.
My friend Don Jose ( Joe) has graduated to stirring the pot with an outboard motor.
Had to reset my login, so I am now mescalero2.
O.S is still in the thick of it, where is the pretty girl pic?
Glad to see Terry is back.
Where is 2ndovc?

[C. Cash]

Another blast from the past.
Joe is 1 day older than me.
I started with scopes, even worked for a scope maker for 5 years.
Just now getting into irons from all the bad influence here.
My friend Don Jose ( Joe) has graduated to stirring the pot with an outboard motor.
Had to reset my login, so I am now mescalero2.
O.S is still in the thick of it, where is the pretty girl pic?
Glad to see Terry is back.
Where is 2ndovc?

Haha! Truly good to see your post Mescalero, and that you are well!

[Mescalero]

Chris,
Old friend, glad you are well.
How is that superdad of yous?

[C. Cash]

Chris,
Old friend, glad you are well.
How is that superdad of yous?

Thanks Mescalero! He is well....another Aviation company got most of the work this summer, and he sat out the fire season. He's getting ready to go out for Bull Elk near Flagstaff so he's in fine spirits about now. Also found out, he getting his 33rd degree in Masonry this week....I didn't even know he was an ACTIVE Mason. So, he's doing pretty darn good.

You have been missed friend, and great to see Terry's post as well. We got old home week going here!

[Mescalero]

It feels really good to talk to the old gang again!
Thank him again from the people of southern New Mexico.

[gamekeeper]

Mescalero, great to see you back.

[Mescalero]

Glad to be back.
I always got off on The Pink Panther!

[J Miller]

mescalero2,

Glad you got back to the forum. Several of us (me included) were afraid some Apache maiden had snagged you and drug you back to the reservation. We were picturing you setting up hogans and fixing formula for the little ones .

Seriously, email me, button's on the bottom.

Can you fix a scope? It's stuck on 3 power, adjuster is loose but innards won't budge. It's a cheep piece of junk, but I'm curious what happened to it.

Joe

[Nath]

Hey Terry,

How old would I be if I didn't know how old I was?

Now that is a mouthful of a question. The answer, maybe 40 or so.

I wanna meet your eye Dr, I like the sounds of her. That is the thing I'm going to do when I get my next set of specs. As long as I can keep shooting with corrective lenses I'll be shooting iron sights.

Nath,
Don't tell anybody here at Leverguns, but some years back I actually mounted a scope on my 9422. What a dismal failure. I never could find my target unless I was looking at a stationary target at the range.
When out in the field, if I saw a target of opportunity, I'd shoulder the rifle and never could find the darn target. I'd have to move my head to the side, get my eyes fixed on the target then move the scope into my line of sight without blinking. What a pain in the behind. That is one of the reasons I don't use scopes.

Oh, please lets not get started on the all caps posts. Just read the words and go from there.

Joe

Don't worry Joe, I was only joking with Terry, I am glad to see him contribute here again. I like folk that talk straight.

Joe you made me get my Enfield muskatoon out tonight, it has a rear sight I made that fits in the Peabody after removing the original pieces. It shot to high see, I have been meaning to blacken it so it is off to work with me tomorrow. Whilst at it I was not to happy about the clearance for the nipple bolster and lock plate and so have rectified that too. Tis a smooth bore and the groups with a patched ball will take a deer to 40yds no problem but it would be nice if it will bounce a rabbits head at that too! So we will see. Having no scope on this real gun is a joy to carry and use and it makes me hunt better but I just know I will see a darned fox at 200yds when I'm out with it

Hi Mescelero

Nath.

[J Miller]

See Joe, You need to move or at least visit east my friend.(Deep woods and close encounters of a good kind)
Can just see you now hunting Cahill Mountain for Bear/Deer in the Big woods with your 30-30
The Fields/Power lines and firebreaks are ok for about the first part of the first day here but the bigger bucks know games on and go to "woods" then at night go to the fields!

Just somthing about being on the ground behind a couple V'd together tree trunks hearing a twig snap then suddenly seeing this white crowned beauty appear from nowhere at 40yds away and very slowing working his way through the woods with fogged breath appearing from his nose/mouth. Your waiting/keeping it together to just ever so quietly/slowly getting ready for that one shot as his head "for that one instant" disappears behind a huge hemlock.

Close encounters like that Joe? (You would hunt forever more)
But in the meantime, keep up your shooting the way you are doing cause it keeps you sharp!
Wish you could hunt with me up here just once to see!

madman4570,

I wouldn't mind visiting at all. I've been to Florida on a funeral trip back in 90. That's the furthest East I've been. Some day if the powers that be allow it perhaps I can come back for some hunting and exploring.
Assuming PA allows out of staters to bring guns, short and long, in with them.

Joe

[Mescalero]

Hi Nath,
Apache girls are hard to deal with,
still single.

[gamekeeper]

Hi Nath,
Apache girls are hard to deal with,
still single.

There speaks a WISE MAN !

[Mescalero]

Did not get to be this old by engaging in foolish behavior.

[Nath]

Hi Nath,
Apache girls are hard to deal with,
still single.

Apache girls Try taming an English bird then, that'll test ya

N

[Mescalero]

During my six weeks in Hemel, I thought them to be fine ladies.

[Nath]

During my six weeks in Hemel, I thought them to be fine ladies.

Ahhhr but you diddna' marry one did ya, so don't really know now do ya

N

[Mescalero]

I did not want to buy a cow,
I only wanted a glass of milk.

[Ysabel Kid]

I did not want to buy a cow,
I only wanted a glass of milk.

Joe, you have a dozen years on me, but I'm feeling your age not mine. Pretty much everything hurts of late. Still, glad to be on this side of the 6-foot hole than in it!!!

[Buffboy]

Hi Nath,
Apache girls are hard to deal with,
still single.

The Sioux aren't much better but I get by married to one. Good to see you back Mescalero.

Joe, That scope that's stuck, that the one I sent you?

Joe I'm about your age, I started with irons then went to a scope. Danged if I didn't have the hardest time hitting anything with those infernal magnifying things. I persevered and learned to shoot a scope. The first couple seasons were tough but it became much easier as the years went by, then I decided it was too easy and went back to irons a few years back. I still have good eyes and still see the irons well enough to kill standing deer at 200+ yards cleanly. The cartridge is more the limitation for me, get beyond 250yards with a 38-55 and you've got to have the range doped pretty well to be sure of a clean kill. Still have scoped rifles and shoot them frequently, I like hunting with what I'm using now but I'm not selling any of the scoped rifles either. Out here the ranges can get long, with my decision I have to pass some shots but that's the choice I made. You've made your own choice and there's nothing wrong with it.

[J Miller]

Joe, That scope that's stuck, that the one I sent you?

Buffboy,

No, the one that's stuck is the original one that came on the rifle. The one you sent me is now on the rifle and adjusts up and down the power scale just fine.

.............................................

My wife is part Miami. Not sure what part, but if she was all Indian I'd be long done for I think. She has a stubborn streak bigger than an American Bison, and a temper which seldom shows that makes a p.o.'d pit bull look meek.


Joe

[Mescalero]

That don't sound good Joe.

[Mescalero]

Buffboy,
You ever replace your Daewoo?

[Buffboy]

Buffboy,
You ever replace your Daewoo?

I cobbed together an Rock River CAR lower with a custom built mid-length A3 upper with the A4 cuts, and 16" H-Bar 1/7 chrome lined barrel. It's wearing the 2.5x scope from the Daewoo on a quick detach mount, BUIS, and shoots just about as good. It's a pretty good piece but I still miss the Daewoo. I still want another one, have a saved search on GB for them so I'm watching prices but just haven't got the funds right now to replace it.

[Mescalero]

When I see the prices people want for these now, and think about what I paid for mine , new in the box, well
I made a good deal.

[quietman]

Why does it seem to be the levergun sites where beating your chest about how macho you are because you use irons is so predominant (And that's all it really is or you wouldn't put down people that use scopes).

On top of that levergunners seem to have no problem throwing out disparaging remarks when someone posts a picture of a levergun with a scope.

I think in some ways, some of the people owning leverguns need to grow up.

No scopes on leverguns? How about when you have one that's capable of reaching out to 400yards? And how about those, who out of respect for the game they hunt, feel they owe it to the animals they hunt to do what they can to ensure the best chance of a clean kill?

And yeah, I recently hit a 4 inch plate a 100 yards in a 30mph crosswind, with a stock marlin 60 22 . . . 12 out of 14 times, so I'm not a slouch with irons either.

So those of you who want to feel superior, I'll post a pic of my scoped 338MX so you can tell yourself how much better you are than me. Blast away.


Gawds I'm getting sick of these kind of threads surrounding leverguns. Marlin owners is rife with them too.

[J Miller]

Oooo, quietman ... you got your knickers in a bunch. Me thinks you be way to sensitive.

No chest thumping here, just MY personal feelings and opinions. And I'm also usually being put down by you scope owning lever gunners cos I don't like or use them. You guys that always whine about being respectful to the game you hunt. Really now, the whole idea is to go out and KILL an animal. You wanna use a scope, fine, go ahead. But get off my back cos I don't.
It works both ways.

J e

[donw]

jeeeeeeeeeee...i went into the army when there was still the M1 Garand, BAR and M1 carbine, there was still water cooled .30 cal MG and body armor consisted of WWII flak jackets when and if it could be had...the M14 and M60 were coming in issue to the STRAC units..i was sent to the Thailand/Vietnam theater by SEATO as an "observer"...those were "the good ole days"?

the only time i wear glasses now is when i wanna see...

[txpete]

Why does it seem to be the levergun sites where beating your chest about how macho you are because you use irons is so predominant (And that's all it really is or you wouldn't put down people that use scopes).

On top of that levergunners seem to have no problem throwing out disparaging remarks when someone posts a picture of a levergun with a scope.

I think in some ways, some of the people owning leverguns need to grow up.

No scopes on leverguns? How about when you have one that's capable of reaching out to 400yards? And how about those, who out of respect for the game they hunt, feel they owe it to the animals they hunt to do what they can to ensure the best chance of a clean kill?

And yeah, I recently hit a 4 inch plate a 100 yards in a 30mph crosswind, with a stock marlin 60 22 . . . 12 out of 14 times, so I'm not a slouch with irons either.

So those of you who want to feel superior, I'll post a pic of my scoped 338MX so you can tell yourself how much better you are than me. Blast away.


Gawds I'm getting sick of these kind of threads surrounding leverguns. Marlin owners is rife with them too.

http://www.midol.com/menstrual_complete_caps.html

[Blaine]

Why does it seem to be the levergun sites where beating your chest about how macho you are because you use irons is so predominant (And that's all it really is or you wouldn't put down people that use scopes).

On top of that levergunners seem to have no problem throwing out disparaging remarks when someone posts a picture of a levergun with a scope.

I think in some ways, some of the people owning leverguns need to grow up.

No scopes on leverguns? How about when you have one that's capable of reaching out to 400yards? And how about those, who out of respect for the game they hunt, feel they owe it to the animals they hunt to do what they can to ensure the best chance of a clean kill?

And yeah, I recently hit a 4 inch plate a 100 yards in a 30mph crosswind, with a stock marlin 60 22 . . . 12 out of 14 times, so I'm not a slouch with irons either.

So those of you who want to feel superior, I'll post a pic of my scoped 338MX so you can tell yourself how much better you are than me. Blast away.


Gawds I'm getting sick of these kind of threads surrounding leverguns. Marlin owners is rife with them too.

http://www.midol.com/menstrual_complete_caps.html

[Old Savage]

q man, I think you will find that when shooters shoot with irons they shoot at bigger targets. So, the shooting is actually easier if they have good enough vision to see. Now, it is very doable to shoot golf balls at 100 yds with my 243 BLR but you do have to hold a located 1 minute of angle. I doubt many with irons could do as well. So, if you want to feel good about your shooting you can't have a stricter standard applied than you can consistently do. So what makes the stricter standard possible - seeing more precisely. Guys with 25 power scopes are trying to shoot aspirin size targets. I find that the semiauto black rifle guys like to shoot big targets at relatively short distance and hit them about one a second. Apparently makes them feel very good about what they are doing from what I see. So what can anybody hit consistently at 100 yds - aspirin, golf ball, tennis ball, soft ball, cantelope, basketball? So who is proud of what?

[quietman]

http://www.midol.com/menstrual_complete_caps.html

Did you ever here Bill Cosby's routine on Midol? "Give me some Midol and it's for ME!!" was how it ended

Old Savage, target size, although it determines what you may use, has nothing to do with the attitude of many levergunners towards others that put scopes on their lever guns.

Here's my comment to some one that said he wouldn't put a scope on a levergun because he was a traditionalist and was busy bashing everyone using scopes in the process.

You say you are a traditionalist. I would argue that you are a sentimentalist driven by a feeling of nostalgia..

If you want to follow tradition and have the same attitude of people in the 1800's to 1900's (or earlier), you'll use whatever sighting method gives you the most accuracy and is the most practical for your hunting conditions- and understand others pick their method based on the same criteria. If people weren't looking for increased accuracy back then, you'd never have seen development of the peep sight, the tang sight, or going farther back, even the buckhorn.

Same with ammo. We'd still be shooting lead balls if those preceding us didn't have the real tradition of, "how can I shoot farther, faster, and more accurately". That was the REAL traditional attitude.

So as far as I'm concerned, people condemning scopes on levers are sentimentalists through and through, not traditionalists. It's a sentimental or nostalgic feeling, which is an emotion, that drives their thoughts, and in reality, has nothing to do with the real tradition found in the the thinking of those who created the history of firearms.

Do I get bit by that feeling of nostalgia? Heck yeah. It's why, as long as my eyes hold out, my 1894 will never wear a scope, nor will my Henry 22. It's why I think it would be a blast to have a Marlin in 32-20, 38-55, or 44-40, put a tang sight on it and occasionally shoot some black powder loads. It has nothing to do with tradition, just pure nostalgia, plain and simple

[J Miller]

Wow quietman, you slam us iron sight users for not liking scopes then you vow adamantly that certain ones of your lever guns will never see a scope. Wow, that just flat reeks of hypocrisy.

As for your shooting ability I couldn't care less. Same as I don't care if OS shoots golf balls at a 100 yards with his scoped rifles.

Now forum member Wind's shooting ability; that really impresses me ... and he does it with iron sights .

Joe

[airedaleman]

As I said earlier... but why bother?

[RKrodle]

Thats a fine looking Marlin you have there Quiteman. And I agree with you. I have rifles with scopes and without, or is that with iron sights and without.....need to be PC here so I'll cover both ways. I enjoy shooting and hunting every chance I get. I don't begrudge others to shoot or hunt with what every they choose and is legal. Us folks who use scopes seem to get hammered on around here by some members for some reason....... maybe intolerance, I don't understand the attitude.

[J Miller]

Ricky,

Every time I state my personal feelings about scopes "I" get hammered by the scope fanatics. Without exception. Generally with OS at the lead.
I've also gotten tired of it. It seems as if those of you who like scopes just can't allow us iron sight users to post without telling us just how terrible and inhumane and just how lousy shooters we are because we don't use scopes.
You guys even go to the point of personally insulting us such as quietman did.
So please forgive me if I offer you guys a quarter and tell you all to call somebody who cares.

Joe

[RKrodle]

I'm gonna be contrary, you guys can have your cheaters, I'll stick with the irons.

Joe

Cheaters...really now. And that's not bashing????

Keep your money Joe.

[Old Savage]

You say you are a traditionalist. I would argue that you are a sentimentalist driven by a feeling of nostalgia.. Q man - that is about right. I agree with you..

Joe - that ain't gonna change and I have both. Don't use scopes where they are better for all the reasons stated - isn't that a little simple minded?

[Old Savage]

Well now I looked back and this is how you kicked it off.

"I'm gonna be contrary, you guys can have your cheaters, I'll stick with the irons.
Getting old ain't for the weak at heart. I'm gonna stick it out and use irons till I take that dirt nap."

You set off to start a fight and now you are complaining. ???????

[airedaleman]

Well now I looked back and this is how you kicked it off.

"I'm gonna be contrary, you guys can have your cheaters, I'll stick with the irons.
Getting old ain't for the weak at heart. I'm gonna stick it out and use irons till I take that dirt nap."

You set off to start a fight and now you are complaining. ???????

It does get tiresome, doesn't it?

[madman4570]

q man, I think you will find that when shooters shoot with irons they shoot at bigger targets. So, the shooting is actually easier if they have good enough vision to see. Now, it is very doable to shoot golf balls at 100 yds with my 243 BLR but you do have to hold a located 1 minute of angle. I doubt many with irons could do as well. So, if you want to feel good about your shooting you can't have a stricter standard applied than you can consistently do. So what makes the stricter standard possible - seeing more precisely. Guys with 25 power scopes are trying to shoot aspirin size targets. I find that the semiauto black rifle guys like to shoot big targets at relatively short distance and hit them about one a second. Apparently makes them feel very good about what they are doing from what I see. So what can anybody hit consistently at 100 yds - aspirin, golf ball, tennis ball, soft ball, cantelope, basketball? So who is proud of what?

Open sighted Match Colt HBAR on bench(golf balls till the cows come home) Oh ya! I'm chest pumping/aint so bad!
Sorry OS, I had too! my bad?

[Old Savage]

Yeah but isn't that just kind of a 22? No seriously good job. One of the most accurate I had was a 7.65 x53 with those pointy little sights. I could shoot sub inch groups with it with hand loads but I doubt I could still see the golf ball clearly at 100 yds by the time I had it. Developed some astigmatism and started seeing multiples overlaid at about 44.

[gamekeeper]

My son, GKjr has his rifles scoped, mine have open sights, we have FUN trying to out shoot one another, we never get to arguing over it.

Even if he usually beats me.

[Old Savage]

As requested by our man Joe - 86er - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31209

[madman4570]

Yeah but isn't that just kind of a 22? No seriously good job. One of the most accurate I had was a 7.65 x53 with those pointy little sights. I could shoot sub inch groups with it with hand loads but I doubt I could still see the golf ball clearly at 100 yds by the time I had it. Developed some astigmatism and started seeing multiples overlaid at about 44.

OS
No doubt the scope has some major advantages over the iron sights in many ways and in a few ways it can be also lacking. For people with poor/failing eyesight also absolutely it helps/same with far off targets/game. .

Now, after rereading my prior post, I might have mispoke and need to clarify somthing!
When I shoot my two comp Colts, I 99% of the time use a "much larger" black bull target than a tiny white golf ball.(so I am not correct about the target that I shoot at)
At 100 yards my fine match front sight post is just about exactly 1/2 the bull width and people would be amazed how accurate when that post when centered at 6 o'clock on the bull can be? (for open sights) Almost always my groups(from a bench) run under a inch. I do the bench deal (take random samples of my handloads) prior to any competitions to ensure my loadings are spot on.

So to say my groupings under that type of a shooting scenerio are within golf ball size (yes)
To stick a white golf ball on a top of a target stand a say (OK, now hit that golf ball every time)---No, I know I cant.(To even see that golf ball without any magnification) if I said yes,I would be blowing smoke.

Anyway----How bout everyone on here respects the way we Levergunners want to shoot and shake hands via our keyboards.
This forum is too great of a place to lose any friendships!

[gamekeeper]

Anyway----How bout everyone on here respects the way we Levergunners want to shoot and shake hands via our keyboards.
This forum is too great of a place to lose any friendships!

+ 1 Well said sir.