.38/40 stories needed...

[CarlsenHighway]

I am in need of .38 WCF stories. Reloading and especially about hunting with them.

Waiting for a Winchester 92 rifle in .38/40 (1925mfg) to show up and have to pass the time somehow...

[rangerider7]

I hunt with my 38-40s all the time but I use factory ammo. I mainly hunt predators. Just know the limits of your gun and aim well. Have fun.

[Terry Murbach]

MY CIMARRON AND RUGER 38-40 PISTOLS BOTH SHOOT UP A STORM !!! I JUST MISSED BUYING A COLT SAA 7 1/2" 38-40 A WHILE BACK; IT WAS NOT MEANT TO BE THEN....
I HAVE WANTED A 38-40 LEVERGUN FOR MANY YEARS. A UBERTI '73 CARBINE WOULD SUIT ME JUST FINE.

[Gobblerforge]

The 38-40WCF is my favorite. I hand cast and load to save a lot of money and enjoy the round even more. A great hundred yard gun with very little recoil. If you do your part, everything it hits, dies.
Gobbler

[KCSO]

The fellow just east of town bought his 38-40 Winchester M73 in 1902. The gun cost him $10.45 from the local hardware store. He carried the gun until 1992 when he sold the farm.
The gun went on the farm sale and my buddy bought it on auction for $340. The muzzle end of the barrel was worn at an angle from bouncing around on the spring wagon for years along with corresponding wear to the fore end. I trued up the muzzle and re crowned the barrel and fitted a new fore end and the gun was back to shooting, keeping B/P loads in 3" at 100 long steps.
The loads are a case full of FFFg Swiss powder and a 180 grain bullet lubed with bear oil and beeswax. Velocity is 1250 fps and it will shoot upwards of 40 shots before the fouling gets too bad. Since we reworked the gun in 1993 it has killed two deer, coyotes, coon and badger. I suspect the gun will just keep on going as the original owener kept it clean and the new owner is doing the same.
If you read Ned Roberts he prefered the 38-40 to the 44-40 because he said it hit just as hard and shot flatter.

[KirkD]

I've been doing a lot of 38-40 shooting this summer with my original Winchester Model 1873. If you'll PM me with your email, I'll send you a great 38-40 hunting story that was sent to me by another member here.

[CarlsenHighway]

Kirk, sent you a PM...

[Kansas Ed]

In 1992 I was talking to Wayne Baker of Freedom Arms, when he told me he had a couple of rifles that he wanted to get out of his collection. I worked my way up to his home one evening after work and he brought out two lever actions. One was a standard rifle 1892 in 38-40 OBFMCB, and the other was a Model 53 Takedown in 25-20. We talked about price, and I bought both rifles. I spent the summer working up loads for the 38-40 in that rifle and finally settled on one of the loads out of Snooky Williamson's book (load #2) which launched a 180gr bullet at 1959fps per his data. The only difference was that I used the Speer TMJ bullet, thinking that (according to Snooky) the FMJ bullets WOULD expand at velocity as had been his experience.

Oct 31,1992 found me sitting under a cedar tree about 3 miles SW of Freedom, overlooking a field of wheat stubble. There was scrub brush on the rise to the east, which bordered a fence leading into the field. Shortly after daybreak a small group of mule deer does moved silently through the brush...easing their way toward the field. Thinking that the shot was around 75-100 yards I lined up on one of the bigger does, put it on her front shoulder and squeezed off. At the shot she bolted for the fence, cleared it in an easy bound and disappeared into the stubble. Sitting there for a minute, I finally worked my way over to where she had been standing. 125-130 paces to where she stood. Searching the ground for blood trail I found none...I followed her path up to the fence and at the fence found no sign. I was about ready to give up when I spied a large brown rock laying about 150 yards into the field...I almost turned back, but the lack of uncut weeds around the rock (a combine would have left something where it would have gone around a rock) piqued my interest. I hopped the fence and walked down to where the "rock" was. Yep, it was my doe...deader than Tom Cruises' career. The TMJ had poked a .40 Caliber hole through both shoulders. No bloodshot meat, no expansion. And neither hole had any blood leaking from it.

My next project was to centerdrill some of the TMJ's to make small hollow points for minimal expansion. But it was some years later that I had the opportunity to use them.

About 8 years ago, I was hunting dads farm in MO, and decided to take the '92 with the HP ammo to try. I was walking through the brush high up on a bluff overlooking the creek, when I came upon a group of whitetail does. Seeing me they all snorted and milled around. I picked out one (maybe 40 paces through the brush), threw it on her shoulder and squeezed off. I'm not sure what happened, but I think that I shot just ahead of her, missed her clean, and hit the doe behind her in the hips. There was an explosion of hoofs and deer, and everything was gone. Moving through the brush, I found a blood trail...huge blood trail..it was like someone had opened the tap. The further she went, the bigger the blood trail grew. I kept thinking that I would find her over the next rise...but tracking her for over a mile, I ended up losing the trail...back to the house to get the border collie to pick up the trail. The collie ran the scent for some time, and then lost it. I had marked the last blood spot with my orange hat, so went back to pick it up, and found her where she had doubled back. Dead as can be...bled out. The altered TMJ had poked a hole through the close side hip bone, and broke the off side hip. The recovered bullet weighed around 150gr IIRC (I still have it somewhere) and was about .60 caliber. The bullet performed admirably...my shooting I'm still embarrassed about.

The cartridge and rifle are more than capable when loaded into a strong action...I have some much lighter loads that I've yet to try in my two 1873's for deer...I switched to Speer GD bullets for them. I've not had a clean shot for them yet...alas maybe next year.

Ed

[3leggedturtle]

I hunt with my 38-40s all the time but I use factory ammo. I mainly hunt predators. Just know the limits of your gun and aim well. Have fun.

How does the factory ammo perform, what have you shot with it, did you recover any boolits. Also Alliant shows using RL7 in a 38/40 and getting 1600FPS at only 13,500 PSI.

[Sixgun]

I've shot and worked with dozens of 'em, from pre-war single action Colts, modern Colts, Rugers, 92 and 73 Winchesters, Remington pumps, Colt Lightnings, 1889 & 1894 Marlins, New Services and the one thing I learned was that you only need to match the diameter of the bullet to the diameter of the barrel of the gun. 7-10 grains of Unique with a 180 cast (depending on the strength & age of the gun) is all I use. Velocities will range from 800-1500, depending on gun and load.

I know, its the shortest story of it's kind. -------------------Sixgun

[CarlsenHighway]

Good story though Good stories all, thanks guys.
Still waiting for mine to show up. Have grand plans to take it for fallow deer and red deer. Im not into the CAS shooting, I just hunt with my old guns and was wondering what a good hunting bullet and load in such a Win 92 action would be in this cartridge for those that do it.

We use the 200g Hornady jacketed XTP in the .44/40 to good effect at about 1600 fps with 24 grains of H4227 out of a 24inch rifle.
I can get .40 cal 180g XTP jacketed bullets here but they dont have a cannelure.

Does any anyone have one those cannelure tools and recommend them? Just thinking out loud. I havnt even got the rifle. The only other bullet readily available is the Hornady cast bullets I think the same as they use on their CAS frontier ammo. (I dont cast myself. maybe its something I should do...)

Anyone used the factory Hornady brand cast bullets in a cartridge like this for hunting? It is too hard?

[Kansas Ed]

I have the Corbin hand cannelure tool. It does just fine. But I would like to hear some feedback on the CH4D tool, which I think may have the better design. The great thing about the cannelure tool is that it makes all the 40 S&W bullets...38-40 bullets...and that makes your options dang near unlimited.

Ed

[Doc Hudson]

My personal experience with the .38-40 WCF is limited to a dozen or so rounds through a friend's .38-40 WCF/.40 S&W/10mm Auto Blackhawk. So i can't advise on loads or bullets.

However, a guy i worked with in the 1990's was still hunting deer in the Mississippi Delta with his great-grandfather's old .38-40 Winchester. I never saw the rifle, and he didn't know enough to tell me if it was a Model 1892 or a Model 1873. All he knew was that his great-grandfather had bought it before the turn of the century and that he made meat with it every year, using factory ammo. Can't beat that for long service.

I've also read that many Old West gunmen preferred the .38-40 WCF over the .44-40 WCF and the .45 Long Colt. Many folks apparently thought that the .38-40 WCF hit harder and killed better than the .44 wCF or the .45 LC.

Have tons of fun with your new toy!

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Kansas Ed]

The 1905 Winchester catalog has this to say about the following two cartridges:

.44 Winchester Model 1873: This cartridge always has been and always will be popular for sporting purposes. It contains 40 grains of Black Powder and 200 grains of lead. Up to 300 yards it is very accurate, and sufficiently powerful to kill bear, deer, antelope, mountain sheep, etc. Price per 1,000 $19.00. Case contains 2000.

.38 Winchester: The .38 caliber cartridge is lighter than the .44. It contains 38 grains of black powder and 180 grains of lead. This cartridge is heavy enough to kill deer and small game, and is accurate up to 300 yards. Price per 1,000 $16.00. Case contains 2000.


BTW: The std. round barrel rifle lists for $18.00....the Oct barrel lists for $19.50. A 1895 in 30 Army or .303B or .405 or .35 lists for $30, while the 38-72 and 40-72 lists for $21.00

Ed

[KirkD]

I've been working on some loads for my original Model 1873 these past couple weeks. I have found that slower powders, like 5744, fail to obdurate the cast bullet, resulting in poor accuracy (7" five-shot groups at 100 yards). I've been focussing, therefore, on medium speed powders with a burn rate only slightly slower than BP, specifically, 2400 and SR4759. I'm closing in on one load for each. My desire is a load that is reasonably accurate for my worn and slightly pitted bore, and gives original BP ballistics.

After my visit to the range yesterday, it appears that 2400 has the edge in accuracy over SR4759, which is not surprising, given that 2400 is a faster burning powder with a higher pressure spike closer to BP. The two loads I shot yesterday were:

13.3 grains of 2400 under a soft cast 188 grain RCBS bullet for 1,263 fps with an E.S. of 9 fps and an S.D. of 3 fps

17.5 grains of SR4759 under the same bullet for 1,328 fps with an E.S. of 43 fps and an S.D. of 20 fps.

The velocity I'm aiming for is right around 1,328 fps, so my SR4759 is a final load and fairly accurate, with a five shot group at 100 yards of 3 & 3/4" (keep in mind the worn bore, slight pitting, and no cheating with gas checks or fillers). This means I need to increase my 2400 load slightly to get about another 60 fps. I'm loading up some 13.5 grain loads of 2400 today and will try them early next week.

[EdinCT]

I hunted with my Grandfathers 92 which is the same year has yours. It is a rifle with a octagon barrel and tang sight. I used pulled soft point bullets reloaded over a mid load of IMR4227 at about 1650 fps for a pair of deer and the results were impressive.
One small doe went to her knees at the shot lunged over a hill about twenty yards and dropped,it looked like I shot through a gallon of red paint.
The other was a doe has big as a jenny mule and she was quartering to at 40 yards. At the shot she spun made one jump and slamed into a big oak finished. My neighbor looked at the shoulder and said my 30-30 couldn't of doneany more.
I have played with the Speer gold dots and they are a little fragile out of the rifle. The 180 gr XTP seems ok but rainer tmj with the nose filed to the lead seems very good on milk jugs filled with water and I am going to try the Speer TMJ bonded bullets altered the same way. Also Seirra makes a 190 grain that is open on the front that I filed a few spots to help it peel back but haven't shot it yet.
I have found if you use a Lee factory crimp die you don't need a cannular tool. It works good!
I also recommend the 50 years a hunter and trapper book. Woodcock said he never was let down by his 38wcf and it was enough without being to much.
I didn't use this rifle for twenty years because of its paper energy. My Dad told me hit them where they live(lungs) and drag them in. A old fellow.told me that his dad used one in Maine, one day he was told to hunt around the mountain and meet his dad. Halfway round he heard his dad empty his gun and thought he must be in trouble so he hurried. When he found him he had seven dear down! He said the whole family would be eating good this winter!
Hope you enjoy yours has much has I have mine.