OT- How does a Magnum Research compare to a Freedom Arms?

[abcollector]

I was just cruisin' the revolver auctions and came a cross a Magnum Research 5 shot .454 Casull single action SS with a "buy it now" price of $675.00. Says only 50 rds fired. Looks GOOD!
So how does one of these compare with a Freedom Arms?

[Buck Elliott]

Like comparing a Plymouth RoadRunner to a Mercedes 300SL...

They'll both get you there, but the MB 300 (or FA) does it so much better, and for so much longer...

[Chas.]

My opinion is different. I have a BFR in 45-70 and from what I've seen the difference is subtle. Granted, I've never shot a FA, but the fit/finish is not $1000 better, nor is the action $1000 slicker. The fit and finish is much better than my Old Model Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk, and it's much more pleasurable to shoot than either of those. I've probably put 1000-1200 rounds through it.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Like comparing a Plymouth RoadRunner to a Mercedes 300SL...

They'll both get you there, but the MB 300 (or FA) does it so much better, and for so much longer...

I agree. I have worked on several of both. You can just about consider the Freedom Arms to be a custom precisely hand assemble gun. Where as the BFR is a production gun with not as precise specs.

[Buck Elliott]

Like NKJ, I have worked on several of both makes... And -- I used to work for Freedom Arms, so some may see me as prejudiced. Flame away, if you must, but QUALITY speaks for itself.

Other than Factory repairs -- usually the result of some REALLY stupid error on a shooter's part -- there is very little money to be made repairing Freedom Arms products, and that usually consists of replacing an occasional broken spring...

The MR BFRs are a slightly different story. Most (if not ALL) the major parts are cast art Ruger's PineTree Casting facility.

[Alan Wood]

So Buck are you saying that the cast parts dont last as long or???
Alan Wood

[rjohns94]

I have not shot the BFRs but I know that the FA revolvers I have had (and still have) are the bust built, most robust, and nicest finished revolvers I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. My .475 is one of my favorite all time and I'm sure I will have another, perhaps in .45 colt someday soon.

[abcollector]

Thanks Gentlemen to all the replies, that's what I was looking for/wondering. They both have their place in the market so it would more or less depend upon the buyer and what they are wanting out of one or the other.

I've always thought highly of Freedom Arms and would like one but when it comes down to it, I need to justify a "hand cannon" in either .454 Casull or .475 Linebaugh. I suppose I could do a .357 magnum/.44 magnum/.45 Colt. Something to ponder.

[CowboyTutt]

I have no doubt that Buck and Steve know exactly what they are talking about, but I have to say my best friend Tym has a BFR in 454 and its built like a brick. It has very tight tolerances that I can tell, and it shoots very accurately out to 100 yards. My friend Tym has hit the small bullseye at 100 yards off a rest with iron sights with his more than once. It sort of occupies the middle ground between a well made Ruger and a Freedom Arms. For most of us, it is certainly accurate enough for the job. Really its only weakness is the grip frame design which seems more like a traditional Colt instead of a Ruger Bisley/Elmer Keith #5 design. This causes causes quite a bit of muzzle flip. Very well made guns and I don't think you would ever be unhappy with one personally. Just my first hand experiences with my friend's BFR.

-Tutt

[Blaine]

My BFR in 45-70 was like a stainless steel safe.

[Buck Elliott]

Sorry... I got pushed for time, and never completed my comments above...

Yes, the parts are cast by PineTree, and most of the internal parts are PURE Ruger in design and function. They can even be replaced by stock Ruger Blachawk parts, if necessary.

FWIW, most parts of a Freedom Arms revolver ALSO begin as castings. No problem using castings in frearms manufacturing... Ruger has perfected a quality process called "Net Casting," in which the cast parts require little or NO further work to make them operable. just trim off the casting sprue, tumble polish, and ... (FWIW, The cylinder lock is a stamping.)

The biggest problems arise from the fit and finish of the parts. Ruger internals are MADE as "drop-in" parts, and with rare exceptions, that is how they are assembled, straight from the parts bins... Saves a LOT of time and money that way. From my observation, that is also how the BFR is assembled; some better than others. The main, initial symptom I've seen in the BFR is cylinder end-shake, usually caused by careless fitting of the cylinder to the frame, not paying attention to the mating surfaces particularly where the front of the cylinder abuts the inside of the frame. If the surfaces are not EXACTLY parellel and don't provide full support to the cylinder boss, problems begin, and escalate rapidly, under full-power loads.

That huge cylinder and its front boss WILL make a flat surface to abut to, inside the frame.

The BFR grip-frame is another pet peeve, as it is too conically shaped to be of much assistance with heavy loads. I usually do some surgery on these, to lessen the flare of the bottom of the grip-frame, then I either modify the existing grip panels, or make new ones, also reducing the flare -- in all directions -- at the bottom. Makes the gun a LOT easier to control that way...

Over all, the BFR folks just don't spend the time and effort required to make their product into what it could -- and should -- be, if their advertizing hype is to be believed.

So --- are the BFRs any good? should you spend your money on one?

Yes, they are very serviceable revolvers, better than some; not as good as others. For the money, you have to be mindful of their possible future problems, but you should be able to shoot and enjoy one for quite some time, if you'll do a few minor surgeries to that abominably awkward grip-frame they come with...

[madman4570]

Buck,
Very interesting stuff.
I know the Freedoms stuff is first class!
The BFR's I have only shot a couple and honestly those I didnt find a lot nicer than my 1994 Ruger Vaquero(7.5" gloss Stainless)Maybe dont know the right stuff to look for?
I always thought that Vaquero appeared very well made and it shoots good ,but I really dont know that much(no expert)on SA handguns.(no expert on any guns for that matter)
I would love to have a Freedom Arms though.My buddy has a FA premier "model 1997 I believe" in .357 that groups like a accurate rifle.The fit and finish is like some really costly fine custom gun!

[Buffboy]

I've got a Sidewinder SS 4 5/8" 454 made by D-max in Springfield, South Dakota. D-max also made the early BFRs for a while under contract, though now Magnum Research has moved production in house and AFAIK D-max is out of the revolver business. Mine was a second that had the front sight drilled a little off center. The factory gunsmith shortened it to its current configuration, redrilled the sight mount, did a little trigger work and sold it to me. I agree with Buck's opinion. A pretty good revolver, biggest(they come close), finest(?) not by a long shot. Fit & finish is one up on most Rugers but nowhere near the quality of Freedom Arms revolvers.

I like my gun, it's accurate, strong and has been reliable but if I could afford to trade up to a Freedom Arms, I would in a heartbeat.

[Blaine]

I like my gun, it's accurate, strong and has been reliable but if I could afford to trade up to a Freedom Arms, I would in a heartbeat.

So, everything satisfies except the name?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Another way to look at it is this. Let's say you plan to compete in the Daytona 500. First thing you do is build a chassis that complies with all the NASCAR safety requirements. But then you install a motor and drive-train from an off-the-show-room-floor stock high performance offering, a Ford Mustang, a Chevy Vette or Dodge Magnum. These are all assembly line production parts assembled using a much broader plus or minor set of tolerances much like the BFR’s.

Where as the FA’s are built much like head engine builder Mark Cronquist of Joe Gibbs Racing builds their motors, completely blue printed and balanced front to back, top to bottom.
Which of these two examples do you think will make 500 miles at near red-line RPM’s?

For the average shooter/hunter either one of these guns will do just fine. But, let’s say you plan to make the national matches of the;
IHMSA - International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association.
To start with your gun will have already shot 10’s of thousands of rounds in practice just to get you there. Which one of these two guns do you think will be more likely to get you there. The loose factory spec-ed BFR of the precisely built FA.

BTW, The FA's rule the production class in this game.

Another example would be you can deer hunt with a Remington 40x but a 700 ABL or BDL will do just as well?

[Blaine]

For the average shooter/hunter either one of these guns will do just fine

National shooting champs excepted. I can't prove this, but I've read and heard that the tolerances are so very, very close on a FA that it might be a problem with dirt and grit? With my BFR 45-70 I could hit or scare the heck out of pop cans at 100 yards....that's all the better I can do, so I believe I'll get another nasty old BFR someday

[Chas.]

I'm with BlaineG. And when one of my great grandsons has to take it in for a broken spring or lost screw, I can hear it now "Hey Joe, come look at what this guy brought in. It's a BFR, and in good shape too. You know, they only made these a few years. I'll bet it's worth a mint."

[Buffboy]

I like my gun, it's accurate, strong and has been reliable but if I could afford to trade up to a Freedom Arms, I would in a heartbeat.

So, everything satisfies except the name?

Better quality is better quality Blaine. I bought my revolver because it was exactly what I was looking for and any upgrades would be to the same caliber, barrel length. It's not so much the name. The BFRs are good firearms. My Sidewinder is visibly better fitted than the Ruger SBH (also a good firearm) I had and if you take measuring tools to it, it comes out better yet. The smith that sold it to me, may have had something to do with that considering I paid pretty close to the price mentioned at the start of this thread and that was in 1999(? not sure of the date, can't find my receipt).

The Freedom arms revolvers are better made than the BFRs. They are also, at least, twice the price. I'm not likely to trade up simply because I can't justify the added expense. Still, if I had the financial resources to upgrade to a Freedom Arms revolver with the same specifications, I probably would.

[CowboyTutt]

Not trying to offend my friend Steve or my "Uncle" Buck. They know of what they speak and I have no doubt that the small parts and some tolerances of the BFR are simply not as good as the F.A. guns. I've had a tour of the F.A. factory and have met with Wayne Baker and Bob Baker twice now. F.A. guns are probably the best in the world and everything about them is hand fitted. As Steve pointed out, they dominate silouette shooting and have for years.

Just saying that I have been very impressed by my friend's BFR and what he has done with it. Maybe he just got a good speciman, but it's lock up and tolerances are tight as heck, and hot loads in my Raging Bull were too hot in his BFR, I suspect because of the tighter cylinder/forcing cone gap.

We showed his gun to a recent trip to Dick Casull's house, and Dick looked it over and set it down, then later picked it up again to look at it on his own! He said you could tell the tolerances were consistant because the way the powder burns on the cylinder were identical in all chambers. He seemed genuinely impressed.

Not saying that the BFR is as good as a F.A. gun; it is not. But the new BFR guns, not necessarily the ones made by D-Max, seem worth a look and if your not going to compete in national competitions are very accurate. If you can afford the F.A. gun, I would certainly go that route as they are better built and designed, particularly the grip frame.

Here's a pic of the "Casull Gang" from our last visit. Dick is in the white shirt, Tym second to right, Mic McPherson far right, and me standing knees bent dead center. I'll have more to write about this trip later over the summer.

-Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

I just wanted to add some more information about my friends Steve Young and Buck Elliot. I met Steve at the SHOTSHOW in 2008, I believe it was, and despite his mild mannered, humble Texas boy exteriour, I watched him talk to my friend Mic McPherson on how to repair the flaws in my 454 Puma and Steve went "toe to toe" all the way. I wish I had recorded the conversation because it was that good.

I haven't met Buck yet, (it's not his real name by the way, but one he has had since a child) and he worked for F.A. and is equally competant, and a gentleman too. We have had some very long and interesting conversations by phone.

That being said, I agree with both of them that the BFR is no match for the F.A. guns, and everything they have said about the small parts is true. I just wanted to point out that at least some of the current BFR guns are well built and much better than a Ruger, or at least some are better built than others, just like a Ruger.

Hope this helps to qualify things.

-Tutt

[Pathfinder09]

I'm with Buck on this one. There is nothing like a Freedom Arms. Other pistols are very good but FA is just that much better. Hand fitted to a perfection. I really believe you get what you pay for,. Just my $.02.