NEF 500 S&W at the range this morning

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, got out to the range and slogged around in the mud so I could sight-in and take the NEF for a test run.

Interesting. It shot the first load of Power Pistol (28 grain IIRC) pretty well at 50 yards - about 2" - nothing to brag about. Then I tried the next level up and the groups opened up. Again, these were with star-line brass, WLR primers and 350 grain Berry's plated bullets. The star-line calls for LR primers BTW.

Recoil for the Power Pistol loads was about like a 12 guage. Not too bad really.

While I was shooting the second load, I noticed that the reticle on the Weaver 1x3 scope was canted a bit to the right... weird as I had thought I had it pretty straight. Shot some more.... more cant. The scope was rotating in the mounts. OK.... The rings I have on this are about 1" wide and aluminum and I thought I had them torqued down pretty good -but certainly not gorilla tight. I've stripped screw holes out before being too enthusiastic with the torque...

Well, after shooting the rest of the 10 rounds of the second Power Pistol load, I got out the Tightgroup loads just to see if they showed any promise. Hmm -they were supposed to be in the same velocity range as the Power Pistol loads but man they were much lighter in recoil and printed about a foot higher and slightly to the right at 50 yards! They were about the same in grouping as the second Power Pistol load (4" or more at 50 yards - so pretty bad). But I don't know if it was the scope moving around or the loads...

After returning, I cleaned the rifle's bore and then loosened the scope rings and straightened the scope again. Then, I tightened to orangutang level - not quite gorilla Hopefully that will do the trick. I guess I could have applied some rosin or something under the rings...

Interestingly, while dry firing my rifle at home - I noticed that the reticle in the scope jumped a little with the hammer fall I did it a couple times to be sure I wasn't halucinating - yep it jumped... I then got out my 45-70 NEF with 4x Leupold on it - and dry fired it - no jump. Then I tried the 500 again and no jump... hmmm. I guess I'll have to watch this scope... I'm really kind of surprised that it would have any problem with the recoil of this rifle so far - its nothing extrordinary.

I'm going to try some loads with H110 at slightly higher velocity for the next trip.

[AJMD429]

You may want to reconsider the WGRS peep sight...

[CEMENTHEAD]

You may want to reconsider the WGRS peep sight...

+1. I think that good Weaver is already toast.

BTW...what does that thumper weigh? I'm kinda gettin' the same itch you got........

Thanks, Tom

[Pete44ru]

[BTW...what does that thumper weigh? I'm kinda gettin' the same itch you got........ ]

I was thinkin' "Ol' Painless" weighs in at under 5lbs, Tom - but in his OTHER post on this rifle, O.S.O.K. says it weighs 7lbs.

The pics show what looks to be a bull barrel.

Even so, with full power loads, ya better git a hat with a chinstrap.

.

[Nath]

Put another scope on it or you are going to waste ammo, that reticle has come loose.

Besides that, good for you

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

Dang. That's what I was thinking too. I need to send it back to Weaver. I'm really surprised that its having problems already! This isn't much different than a 30-06 realy.

Yeah, maybe an xs or the Wialliams peep might suit this better...

I'd hate to see what the full-power loads do to a scope!

[AJMD429]

Yeah, maybe an xs or the Williams peep might suit this better...

Here's the scope base on the (used) gun when I got it. . . looks like something slipped during recoil.



Here's the Williams WGRS (aperture removed for 'ghost' use),



and the Williams Shorty Ramp (fit the original hole; I think I filed-shorter and reused the original ramp screw from the gun) and Firesight,



and the view - them squirrels ain't gonna eat all my bird food...

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, if anything swaged during recoil, it was the ring bases.... they're aluminum alloy and the scope rail is carbon steel...

Yeah, I'm going to go with a good aperture sight with post front - probably the XS - I can get them for the dealer/C&R discount from Brownells...

Thanks for the pics and info!

[Stan in SC]

I've been tempted by the NEF in .500 but I have such a good thing going with my NEF in 45/70 that I don't think I could do any better.
Incidentally,I have found that the older Weaver El Paso "K" series are almost indestructible on these rifles.

Stan in SC

[O.S.O.K.]

Stan, the 500 is just more of the same

Oh, and I decided to go with the WGRS for the rear sight and ordered a new front sight - Brownells had no pic and no description - I'm hoping its the steel version - if so, I will be very happy with it.

The xs sight showed a dovetail front sight blade.... might actually have the base with it but it wasn't clear... anyway, the Williams is a good sight and quite a bit less $$$.

I sure do wish that Brownells would take the money they pour into their fancy catalogs and put it into upgrading their search engine

[pokey]

You may want to reconsider the WGRS peep sight...

+1. I think that good Weaver is already toast.

BTW...what does that THUMPER weigh? I'm kinda gettin' the same itch you got........

Thanks, Tom

see, that name is already starting to stick.


THUMPER

[mescalero1]

The older Weaver's are indestructable on ANY rifle.

[O.S.O.K.]

I still like "Buck" But Thumper is also descriptive. And it was said already but the bare rifle weighs 7 lb.s.

[AJMD429]

Always you can CALL Brownells and they'll give helpful advice, too.

I think thats how I found what Shorty ramp and WGRS to buy (or maybe I called Williams, I forget...)

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks - I'll see what comes in the mail for the front sight - if its the original, steel blade NEF sight, then I'll be done - otherwise, a phone call would be in order!

And I dry fired the rifle again just a while ago while in the shop cleaning the Kel-Tec pistol I took to the range today - and it's defitaley fried. The reticle jumps 1/4 of the way up the sight picture when you let the hammer fall

[Buck Elliott]

there's a BIG difference between the initial recoil impulse of the .500 S&W and a .45-70. It arises mostly because of the powders used in each, for optimum performance. The .45-70 likes medium-to-medium-slow burning powders, like RL-7, H-322, H-335, IMR 3031, etc, while the .500 requires faster powders, i.e.: H-110/W-296; Li'l Gun, AA 1680, and their ilk.

The big THUMP of the .500 comes from rapid acceleration of relatively heavy bullets, by those faster-burning propellents. Hard on bridgework; hard on optics...

It's the same thing that beats up Marlin 336s & 95s when they are chambered to high-intensity revolver cartridges, even though the guns hold up forever in .45-70, &c

[Andrew]

Have you used the Berry plated bullets much? I see them all the time on Graf's site but don't pay much attention to them because they don't have very large meplats. They do seem to be at the right price though.

[O.S.O.K.]

I've got three boxes of them in different calibers and they are all very uniform and good quality. I use them for practice basically.

[O.S.O.K.]

there's a BIG difference between the initial recoil impulse of the .500 S&W and a .45-70. It arises mostly because of the powders used in each, for optimum performance. The .45-70 likes medium-to-medium-slow burning powders, like RL-7, H-322, H-335, IMR 3031, etc, while the .500 requires faster powders, i.e.: H-110/W-296; Li'l Gun, AA 1680, and their ilk.

The big THUMP of the .500 comes from rapid acceleration of relatively heavy bullets, by those faster-burning propellents. Hard on bridgework; hard on optics...

It's the same thing that beats up Marlin 336s & 95s when they are chambered to high-intensity revolver cartridges, even though the guns hold up forever in .45-70, &c

Ah, that makes perfect sense and explains how these "mild" loads could do the damage - 1600 ish 350 grain bullets starting out very quick... yeah, makes sense. Poor Weaver... I almost feel guilty sending it back to the factory - but then again, its advertised to take this kind of recoil... but I'm going to put it on something more kind when it's returned.

[AJMD429]

And I dry fired the rifle again just a while ago while in the shop cleaning the Kel-Tec pistol I took to the range today - and it's defitaley fried. The reticle jumps 1/4 of the way up the sight picture when you let the hammer fall

I have a scope I did that to with my 12 gauge Ithaca M-66 breakopen slug gun; I plan on dissecting it for my youngest child's homeschool workshop on "light, lenses, & optics" - so at least it will have a good use!

I found the sights I ordered shortly after purchasing that gun:

Williams Shotgun Shorty Ramp 12 Gauge 9/32" (.875) Blue
$21.99 at MidwayUSA
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=111700

Williams WGRS-H&R Guide Receiver Peep Sight H&R 158, 258 Topper Single Shot Rifles, Ruger Mark 2 Aluminum Black
$37.99 at MidwayUSA
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=698217

[Swampman]

One of the few scopes that will handle the .500S&W Handis recoil is the Nikon Prostaff 2-7X32. They are inexpensive on eBay. Peeps are ok for paper but don't work well in the woods.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, I'd probably put a Leupold on it if I decide to try a scope again - but for now, I'm going to give the aperture sights a shot.

I am really shocked at how quickly this poor Weaver bit the dust.

I do like my Prostaffs though - I have one of those 2x7's on my Marlin 30-30AI IIRC. I also have one each of their 3x9's on my 30-06 and my two boy's 30-06 bolt guns. I think they are the best glass for the money under $200.

[Grizz]

Peeps are ok for paper but don't work well in the woods.

I'll take exception to that. I've killed a couple hundred deer in the woods and the peep sights work so well they're on all my meat guns.

I did have a Leupold 2-7 on a .338 that I REMOVED WHEN I WENT INTO THE WOODS because you can't reliably stop a charging bear if all you can see is a close-up of bouncing fur. It was great for making meat from the boat though.

I had a peep sight on my Remington 700 BDL 7mm mag. I had a peep sight on my superblackhawk .44 mag. And on the Marlin 1897 44.

Peep sights work PERFECTLY in the woods, in my experience.

Regards,

Grizz

[Modoc ED]

Peeps are ok for paper but don't work well in the woods.

I'll take exception to that. I've killed a couple hundred deer in the woods and the peep sights work so well they're on all my meat guns.

I did have a Leupold 2-7 on a .338 that I REMOVED WHEN I WENT INTO THE WOODS because you can't reliably stop a charging bear if all you can see is a close-up of bouncing fur. It was great for making meat from the boat though.

I had a peep sight on my Remington 700 BDL 7mm mag. I had a peep sight on my superblackhawk .44 mag. And on the Marlin 1897 44.

Peep sights work PERFECTLY in the woods, in my experience.

Regards,

Grizz

Don't fall outa yer saddle Grizz but I gotta agree with ya 100% on this one and then some.

Peep sights work well in all conditions but in foul weather (rain, snow, fog) they are worth their weight in gold. Easy to clear should a rain drop or snow flake be in the way of the aperature and in the early morning and late evening when daylight isn't 100% they outline game perfectly. No need to worry about having a lagre objective lens to gather light that a scope requires.

[Buck Elliott]

AMEN!

[awp101]

but I'm going to put it on something more kind when it's returned.

Like what? A howitzer?

[O.S.O.K.]

but I'm going to put it on something more kind when it's returned.

Like what? A howitzer?

I was thinking maybe a mouse gun

[awp101]

but I'm going to put it on something more kind when it's returned.

Like what? A howitzer?

I was thinking maybe a mouse gun

Oh, a pack howitzer then...

[Swampman]

Having used peeps for many years I can safely say they don't work well in the woods. Most folks have never been in the kind of woods were I hunt. Daniel Boone got lost here for about 3 days. I'm not kiddin'. He also said this was one of the few forested areas where he thought a man could starve to death. If your leaves fall in the winter then you're not in the woods yet. Scopes rule for this kind of woods.

[Grizz]

Daniel Boone is a relative of mine and I know for a fact that he didn't use scopes in those woods.

Grizz

[AJMD429]

There are times when a good 'light gathering' scope DOES let you discriminate a deer much better than any open sights I've tried, including 'ghost' setups, 'twilight' apertures, and even with a ring up front as well as in back. Mostly that's later than I care to hunt (although still often within legal hours but in deep woods), but sometimes in the morning the same applies.

Mostly though, peeps do the job, and for a gun like the .500, they just seem right somehow.
I also have a Handi in 7.62x39, and THAT one gets a scope...