http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=24808
I wonder if 2-3 feet of snow banked up would stop a bullet, kinda like ballistic gel?
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Terry beat me to it.Terry Murbach wrote:WHAT ??????????????????????????????? YOU HAVE NEVER RED ELMER KEITH'S USE OF SNOW BANKS FOR BULLET RECOVERY ???
GO GET TO IT !! QUIZ AND REVIEW IN THE MORNING.
DISMISSED.
he's a quick draw, that terry.Sgt443 wrote:Terry beat me to it.Terry Murbach wrote:WHAT ??????????????????????????????? YOU HAVE NEVER RED ELMER KEITH'S USE OF SNOW BANKS FOR BULLET RECOVERY ???
GO GET TO IT !! QUIZ AND REVIEW IN THE MORNING.
DISMISSED.
I heard it's the worst snow fall since 1922! So was man causing climate change then?Bill_Rights wrote:Here in the Wash., D.C. area we are getting it good, regarding snow. See other thread:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=24808
I wonder if 2-3 feet of snow banked up would stop a bullet, kinda like ballistic gel?
As a total OT/side-light, I don't see why a short barrel would melt the back of a bullet more than a long barrel would, except that the tendency would be to load for that short barrel length with a faster-burning powder. 'Splain it to me if that's not why?Elmer Keith posted:
Short barrels have a tremendous blast and we believe some percentage of bullets leave the muzzle with their base deformed from the muzzle blast when barrels are reduced below 4 inches in length. You can remove a revolver barrel and fire the gun with cylinder only and catch the slugs in soft snow or oiled saw dust or other soft material. You will find the bases are badly mushroomed from the powder gases, after leaving the front of the cylinder. We believe the same thing takes place with high velocity hot loads, such as the .357 Magnum in full loads, with barrels under 4 inches in length... about 30% [of bullets] will keyhole on the target at 20 yards. We can see no reason for this other than too soft a bullet and too short a barrel.
Bill_Rights wrote:Thanks for the stats on penetration distances.... Even though I can't drive to the range, it may not yet be time to start shooting into snow banks in my suburban neighborhood. It is still snowing, though, and we got one dug pile that's six feet high (at center) x 20' x 15' footprint. It'll double or triple before we get the turn-around area of the driveway dug out....
About Elmer Keith:
Being a total newbie, I had not realized what all he did before passing away. Here's one thing he wrote about shooting into snow, so says the 2nd-hand poster (posted years after Keith died) at http://forums.somethingawful.com/showth ... genumber=5:As a total OT/side-light, I don't see why a short barrel would melt the back of a bullet more than a long barrel would, except that the tendency would be to load for that short barrel length with a faster-burning powder. 'Splain it to me if that's not why?Elmer Keith posted:
Short barrels have a tremendous blast and we believe some percentage of bullets leave the muzzle with their base deformed from the muzzle blast when barrels are reduced below 4 inches in length. You can remove a revolver barrel and fire the gun with cylinder only and catch the slugs in soft snow or oiled saw dust or other soft material. You will find the bases are badly mushroomed from the powder gases, after leaving the front of the cylinder. We believe the same thing takes place with high velocity hot loads, such as the .357 Magnum in full loads, with barrels under 4 inches in length... about 30% [of bullets] will keyhole on the target at 20 yards. We can see no reason for this other than too soft a bullet and too short a barrel.
Anyway, I didn't see much of any web search hits to Keith shooting into snow, although I did see one where he made a "miracle shot" from prone, laying in the snow...
Bill_Rights wrote:AJ,
Thanks. So it is not a matter of the burning propellant melting the back of the bullet, but the hot jets of gases, escaping to air at the base of the bullet when it exits the muzzle, act kinda like a cutting torch on the edges of the base of the bullet. OK, got it.
In your example with the towel, what id "BC". I took it to mean the gap between the cylinder and barrel of a revolver.
Terry Murbach wrote:WHAT ??????????????????????????????? YOU HAVE NEVER RED ELMER KEITH'S USE OF SNOW BANKS FOR BULLET RECOVERY ???
GO GET TO IT !! QUIZ AND REVIEW IN THE MORNING.
DISMISSED.
I only have one criticism... it's "read".bigbore442001 wrote:A very therapeutic way of encouraging discovery.Terry Murbach wrote:WHAT ??????????????????????????????? YOU HAVE NEVER RED ELMER KEITH'S USE OF SNOW BANKS FOR BULLET RECOVERY ???
GO GET TO IT !! QUIZ AND REVIEW IN THE MORNING.
DISMISSED.
YOU ARE RIGHT !!! MY FIRST MISTAKE THIS YEAR. FOR THE WANT OF AN A....Griff wrote:I only have one criticism... it's "read".bigbore442001 wrote:A very therapeutic way of encouraging discovery.Terry Murbach wrote:WHAT ??????????????????????????????? YOU HAVE NEVER RED ELMER KEITH'S USE OF SNOW BANKS FOR BULLET RECOVERY ???
GO GET TO IT !! QUIZ AND REVIEW IN THE MORNING.
DISMISSED.
Bill_Rights wrote:'Nother noob question: What does it meanwhen a bullet is "keyholed"?
Bill_Rights wrote:Here in the Wash., D.C. area we are getting it good, regarding snow. See other thread:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=24808
I wonder if 2-3 feet of snow banked up would stop a bullet, kinda like ballistic gel?
Never underestimate the penetrating power of a cast bullet--hard or soft. They'll go through a lot more at sub-2000 fps velocities than one would ever think possible, and generally holding together a lot better than many jacketed projectiles.getitdone1 wrote:An easier way is to save plastic gallon milk jugs, fill them with water, tighten cap on and line them up in a row.
Shoot through them and you'll find the bullet--pieces, maybe--in one of those jugs.
How many jugs? After doing this with several guns from 22 LR to 45-70, 7mm Rem mag etc. expect 6-7 will stop about all with soft points. Full metal jacketed or hard cast may go through 10 or more.
20-30 feet from jugs when shooting to avoid getting soaked with water. Quite an explosion of jug and water--especially when shooting the faster cartridges--like 7mm Remington mag. Cake coloring or some kind of dye in the water would make it even more visible and spectacular.
I like to test cartridge and bullet performance this way.
Don
I have not checked to see if the article is still up, but Garrett Cartridge Company's website used to have an article addressing a similar issue.jlchucker wrote: Never underestimate the penetrating power of a cast bullet--hard or soft. They'll go through a lot more at sub-2000 fps velocities than one would ever think possible, and generally holding together a lot better than many jacketed projectiles.