1892 45 Colt/454 Casull

[Scout53]

Has anyone any experience with the Legacy/Puma/Rossi 1892 .454 Casull?
What is needed to be done to be able to use the .45 Colt round in a '92 chambered for the .454 cartridge?
Will the .45 Colt shoot as accurate, or nearly so, as the .454?
Any insight into this carbine and cartridge combination will be helpful.
Thank you.

[Lobo]

Hi All,

I have the Puma in 45 Colt with the long octagonal barrel.....reasonably accurate, and lots of fun! I don't have first hand experience with the 454, but I have always thought that if you loaded the 45 Colt brass with the bullet seated out far enough to get the 454 OAL that it would cycle and fire the same as the 454 ammo. Now, do I know this for a fact......no.

[Terry Murbach]

THE ONLY THING I EVER DID WITH MY PUMA 454 WAS TO FILL THE MAGAZINE TUBE WITH 45COLT AMMO AND BANG AWAY. IT IS NO BIG DEAL !!! I SHOT UP THE SECONDS IN BOTH CALIBERS FROM THE AMMO PLANT FOR AGES AND IT DID NOT MATTER WHICH CALIBER I PUT IN THE MAGAZINE. LET ME NOTE THIS THOUGH, AFTER YOU SHOOT UP FOUR OR FIVE BOXES OF 454 AMMO, IF YOU DO NOT FEEL WHALED UPON BY MOHAMMED ALI YOU'RE A BETTER MAN THAN I, GUNGA DIN...

[.45colt]

Yep after shootin a bunch of Paco's top end loads thru my Win 94 .45colt I started to feel sumpthin. Thanks Terry for puttin a name to it."WHALED UPON BY MOHAMMED ALI ". God help Me if it was a .454. .

[Warhawk]

The Cabela's in Fort Worth has a blue Rossi 92 in .454 Casull for $399, looks almost new.

They also "had" one of these, in 357 with fake ivory grips and brilliant case colors. Pics soon, when I get it out of hock (layaway).

[JerryB]

Hey Terry, would that be as bad a Cassius Clay?
I,loaded some 255 grain swc over 9 grains of Unique that was a pretty good load in my Rossi Hartford 20 inch carbine, I would think it would handle most anything that needeed to be shot dead.

[Bill_Rights]

Scout53,

I bought one of those M92s in .45 Colt / .454 Casull, but it hasn't arrived yet. But I did study, ask around, etc. before I bought and here's what I found.

Short answer: Nothing. This rifle will load, chamber and shoot both cartridges safely and well. Not only is that implied in the naming (as distinct from the nearly identical-looking M92 in .45 Colt), but I have it on authority of a user by name of "mgkdrgn" over on The High Road forum and on GunBroker, who also owns this rifle and reloads his own, at least the .45 Colts. You could search on users at either of these sites and PM him if you want. I am sure some others on this forum can speak from actual experience, as well.

There are differences in the cartridges besides their power. The outer dimensions are different, by a little:
.45 Colt....... overall length: 1.600 inches = 40.6 mm
...................case length: 1.285 inches = 32.6 mm
.454 Casull...overall length: 1.770 inches = 45.0 mm
.................. case length: 1.383 inches = 35.1 mm
But the Rossi feeds them both just fine. I guess the bullet from the shorter .45 Colt has farther to jump in the throat before it hits the rifling grooves, but, oh well...

The bullets are a little different in diameter, too, besides the .454 running to longer lengths to get heavier bullets. If you look at component bullets for reloading, the .45 Colt bullets are usually listed as .451" jacketed and .452" bare lead. The .454 Casulls are usually .452" jacketed and bare and running up to .454" bare. I don't specifically know what's up with these facts, but I'd guess a) the jacketed bullets is smaller diameter because the jacket is harder material and doesn't "engrave" on the rifling as easily as bare lead, so must be smaller and b) the .454 is larger in diameter because it's a more powerful round and you need a little more bite on the rifling to get it spinning quicker without slipping. Anybody? Anyway, I don't think the .45 Colt bullets "rattle around" in the Rossi's barrel because they're smaller, and thus shoot less accurately.

The wall thickness of the .454 case is thicker, to contain the more powerful propellant charges.

The .45 Colt will shoot just as accurately as the .454 Casull AT SHORT RANGE in this rifle. 'Course, being big "bumble bee" bullets at relatively low velocity, they are BOTH short range rounds, compared to a high-pressure .30 cal rifle round with spitzer-tipped bullet.

As both Jerry and "45" mentioned above, you can get higher-pressure .45 Colt loads, so called +P loads, with up to ~ 25,000 psi chamber pressure, versus 14,000 psi for the standard .45 Colt load. This is enough to make the .45 Colt do just about anything you really need, unless you're shooting elephants or hippos or something. The .454 Casull loads can go up to ~ 60,000 psi. What I think I'll end up with for most hunting and defense uses is up-loaded .45 Colts or down-loaded .454 Casulls, just to save on recoil wear-and-tear and have rapid follow-up capability.

BUT, the thing that really sold me on the .45 Colt/.454 Casull chambering is that you can buy the .45 Colt in low-power rounds (cheaply!) for plinking and for family use AS WELL AS get the .454 Casull in just about as beastly load as can be handled reasonably. To me, that's a winning combo. I can say that that's one of the things that tipped me away from the .450 Marlin (I still want one!) for my first lever gun - the ability to get cheap, low-power ammo.

[Gun Smith]

There was a question about different length cartridges feeding in a M.92, or clone. The feeding system does not rely on the OA length of the cartridge as it does in M. 73 and 76, or clone, type actions. The M.92 action uses a lifter system and cartridge stop that is not dependent on OA cartridge length. I made 45 "Short" Colt cases for my Rossi Puma in order to load more rounds in the magazine for SASS. It never missed a beat.