.450 Marlin (or .45-70) loads for Cast Performance 460s

[Cosmoline]

I've been searching high and low but can find almost no load data for these nice Cast Performance 460 grain hardcasts I'm hoping to turn into a big game load. I'm loading for a custom .450 Marlin originally chambered in .458x2 American. The load data for the .450 Marlin itself is almost non-existent, and .45-70 data is focused on 405 grain and smaller. Has anyone loaded these?

Thanks!

[Tycer]

I load an LBT 450 WFN over 41,5 grains of Reloader7 for 1675 fps in 45-70 in an 1886.
.5 grain changes = 12 - 20 fps change from 12@40 grains to 20@46.
Not so much fun to shoot from the bench.

[1886]

Mic. and I did some load dev. in the Marlin .450 with those bullets when the bullets were prototypes. They would not clear the mag. tube of my .450. If memory serves me, that bullet was designed for the .45-70 Marlin. This was 10+ years ago. After heavily modifying that rifle, those bullets were wonderful shooters! I know we stopped when extraction became slightly sticky at 1875 f.p.s. I could not tell you the pressures we were obtaining. RL-7 was the powder we were using. Mic went on to author an article on that rifle and bullet combo in Accurate Rifle or Precision Shooter mag. I will see if I can find a copy and locate the data. Regards, 1886.

[Tycer]

Mic. and I did some load dev. in the Marlin .450 with those bullets when the bullets were prototypes. They would not clear the mag. tube of my .450. If memory serves me, that bullet was designed for the .45-70 Marlin. This was 10+ years ago. After heavily modifying that rifle, those bullets were wonderful shooters! I know we stopped when extraction became slightly sticky at 1875 f.p.s. I could not tell you the pressures we were obtaining. RL-7 was the powder we were using. Mic went on to author an article on that rifle and bullet combo in Accurate Rifle or Precision Shooter mag. I will see if I can find a copy and locate the data. Regards, 1886.

My 1886 45-70 started getting sticky about the same speed with the 450s.

[1886]

I load an LBT 450 WFN over 41,5 grains of Reloader7 for 1675 fps in 45-70 in an 1886.
.5 grain changes = 12 - 20 fps change from 12@40 grains to 20@46.
Not so much fun to shoot from the bench.

Those loads are no fun off the bench. I crawled up too high on the stock during one of those sessions. My right thumbs caught me on the left side of the nose. My nose dripped blood for a couple of hours after that. The new stainless guide gun with the pistol grip should handle recoil much better than the original straight grip design. The 86 with a steel butt plate is a joy as well. 1886.

[2ndovc]

Mic. and I did some load dev. in the Marlin .450 with those bullets when the bullets were prototypes. They would not clear the mag. tube of my .450. If memory serves me, that bullet was designed for the .45-70 Marlin. This was 10+ years ago. After heavily modifying that rifle, those bullets were wonderful shooters! I know we stopped when extraction became slightly sticky at 1875 f.p.s. I could not tell you the pressures we were obtaining. RL-7 was the powder we were using. Mic went on to author an article on that rifle and bullet combo in Accurate Rifle or Precision Shooter mag. I will see if I can find a copy and locate the data. Regards, 1886.

The long heavy bullets create too long of an OAL to load through the gate of the 450Marlin.

I just got some 351 flat base cast bullets to try in my 95M. Looking forward to working up some loads for it.


jb

[Cosmoline]

I've run a blank tester through the mag of the BB 94 and it cycles fine, so I'm in luck there.

I'm not looking for an exceptionally stout load. I suspect these 460's will work fine or better at a medium velocity. I've also found a load of 40 grains of RL-7, but I'm sure that's still going to be stout. I am hesitant to drop the load volume much more than that with RL-7. What about RL-10? 460 seems to be about where the shift between the two should take place.

Going down a notch I wonder what load I could work up with Trail Boss. I love that powder, but the data on it is scant.

[Blaine]

I'm not going to mention a load, but if 40gr of the R7 is a bit much, you might want to check out 2400......Also, I've made trapdoor loads with H4187 that are very reliable at lower volumns of powder.

[RKrodle]

Call Mike at CP/Grizzy, he'll help you out with the info. 503-556-3006.

[foxtrapper]

Cosmo the 460CP is my hunting bullet Kills black bear real dead! here's some help http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm

[Cosmoline]

Thanks! There's Reloader 10, that makes sense to me. I would think 1400-1500 fps would be more than sufficient with this slug.

I'm not going to mention a load, but if 40gr of the R7 is a bit much, you might want to check out 2400

I've seen some loads for 500 grainers with 2400 that look interesting, but by that point velocities are downgraded perhaps too much. I'm not so much worried about impact force as bullet drop. It's got to have a little more oomph to avoid a rainbow trajectory I suspect.

[Buck Elliott]

H-4187...??? or maybe H-4198...?

[1886]

The rifle we used was extensively modified. One notable mod. was the O.A.L. the rifle would accept. That rifle would handle cartridges 2.655" which is a tenth of an inch longer than what a stock Marlin 95 will accept. This had a significant influence on the amount of powder we could CRAM into that case so my load data would be meaningless for a stock rifle. Many other mods. were done in order to improve the accuracy potential of that gun and in it's ability to handle the prodigious amounts of recoil that rifle generated. We split a stock. We bedded the replacement stock and a through bolt was installed.

[Blaine]

H-4187...??? or maybe H-4198...?

Oh, stuff..... I mean, just checking to see if you're on the ball

[Mike Rintoul]

I recommend you call me for load data. I am prevented from publishing it in public forum due to insurance and other legalities, but I am happy to provide them for you (I can disclose them to an individual). I can match the load to your rifle and intentions too.

[tman]

been awhile since i saw a .458x2. if winchester had standardized and chambered it in the 94.

[Cosmoline]

I agree completely. The 94 is so incredibly packable. This Big Bore rides in my backpack scabbard easily and can be whipped out in a second--just like drawing a revolver. It's a little lighter than the Marlin 95 and much more graceful.

The rifle I'm loading for is actually John Traister's original Big Bore 94 conversion to .458x2. His article on it describes how difficult it was to modify the 94 to take that size of a cartridge. I'm sure Winchester was aware of this. The barrel also had to be swapped out for a much more massive custom job. I think they did eventually chamber in the .444 and .450 Marlin, but it was at the end of the game for them and decades too late. If only they had amped up the Big Bore and to take a .45 caliber slug like this one instead of feeding it only those odd proprietary rounds. Ah well.

For better or worse a previous owner swapped it out to .450 Marlin. They're a very similar cartridge, though the load data for the x2 seems to be a notch more potent. Traister writes of sending out 500 grain solids at up to 1,700 fps and more! I'm not brave enough to try that myself.

Though I'm sure the chamber was altered to take advantage of the availability of the commercial round, ironically with the brass shortages it would have been easier for me to get .458 Win and cut it back than it has been to get .450 Marlin brass. I'm currently using someone else's once fired castoffs, and I was glad to get those.

[1886]

I have seen some impressive possibly optimistic .458 American load data myself. All of it was rather dated and for a front locking bolt gun. Assuming similar lever guns, the .450 Marlin can not be loaded to equal top end .45-70 performance. The case capacity is just not there. They can be very close and for all practical purposes, they are probably equally effective. Best Wishes, 1886.