Great old photo of outdoors man with Winchester and horse.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:57 pm

I like this photo. It was probably taken in the 1890s. There was no location given. What do you think?

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:03 pm

Great photo. He looks like the real deal. Has all the right gear. Thanks RR7 for all the great pics you post.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:25 pm

The cowboy looks real, those chaps are pretty worn, the axe has seen use, but the photo is a poser, see the picket fence in the background?

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:29 pm

It's a posed picture. But it's interesting that he is not looking at the camera. In almost all old prints we see the subjects all looking directly into the camera. But I do believe he is the real deal.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:31 pm

Because of the camera setup required in those days, almost all pictures were pretty much "posed" (and the camera was usually in town). The length of exposure and the size of the equipment made a "snapshot" difficult.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:33 pm

20cows, so true.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:39 pm

I'm wonderin' who made him throw his kit on the ground for the photo.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:43 pm

He threw his kit on the ground for the photo (that's what the photograher wanted in the shot).

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:46 pm

Thanks, RR7. Great photo, you always have great photos. Looks to be the real deal to me.

cnjarvis · Post by **cnjarvis** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:49 pm

Cool photo and he looks like the real deal. Anyony else notice that there's no revolver in the shot?

He looks a little like Brian Pierce to me.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:52 pm

I like it. Thanks

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:59 pm

I think that is a bowie on the belt.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:53 pm

Like the saddle. danny

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:09 am

kimwcook wrote:Thanks, RR7. Great photo, you always have great photos. Looks to be the real deal to me.

+ 1

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:48 am

I too enjoy your posted old pics! Nice to see old timers with straight brims , as I like!

The only thing that makes me wonder is the stirrups seem a little short for him,... at least they look short for the way I set my seat!

Maybe it's not his horse? Or, he likes them that way?

Very flashy marked horse, lots of chrome !!!

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:27 am

THAT HORSE IS FASCINATING. HE HAS A SHORTER WHEELBASE THAN A CJ7. THAT SADDLE IS DARN NEAR UP ON HIS NECK.
WHERE IS THE SCABBARD FOR THAT RIFLE ?
THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING OLD WEST PHOTOS I HAVE EVER SEEN, RR7.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:44 am

For those deer hunters out there, how do stage something this foolish?

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:21 pm

That deer pic desperately needs captioned but I don't think i can do it w/o fracturing various guidelines regarding appropriate content; so I'll leave that to folks with more refined sensibilities.

The top pic is great too and like Murbacht I couldn't help but notice that stout and nimble-built pony. I also got a kick outta the posed 'kit on the ground'- away out in the wilds, just this side of the picket fence.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:04 pm

I too appreciate the old photos. Thanks for posting them. This one has me looking over my "kit" to see what I would have in such a photo. The people of these photos, didn't have the luxury of abundant resources and choices from lots of weapons. Even choosing one knife for your belt, one rifle, what size fry plan, how long a hank of rope, size of the tarp, type of saddle, how much ammo, clothes, etc etc. Everything for a purpose but yet everything for every purpose. You had to make do. First thing I do is reach for several knives - how do you choose just one? One rifle? no shotgun? one pistol? (I do have a favorite fry pan

) Thanks for the photo, perhaps I will ponder some more my "kit" and post it later.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:35 pm

you sure do come up with some interesting photos.
i think we all like to imagine our selves in the pic,
what is real, what is not? it's all up to the observer
now.

my guess, it's later than you think. like teens or twenties.
the style of saddle[nice], the wear on his '94, pressed steel
skillet, and clothing. all seem later than 1890s. his gear, rope,
saddle, kit on the ground look unused. chaps and shirt look like
his stuff. the saddle rope is certainly not what a cowpoke would
be packing. mayhap he's going gold prospecting?

anyway you see it, sorta takes you back. lets you see into a
past not available to most.

thanks for thinking of us, and posting these imagination stimulators.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:30 pm

Top pic likely taken it the yard of the ranch house, by some itinerant shutter-bug.

The deer hunters...? I have my theories.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:31 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:For those deer hunters out there, how do stage something this foolish?

I've packed deer out that way, sort of. Except I cut the lower legs off at the joint. Cut the forelegs thru the joint, but don't cut the tendon. Cut the back leg tendon and insert the broken fore let thru it. Makes a toggle like a boom chain. Very common where I hunted. Which was very far from other people and very low risk of getting mis-took. However, a very high risk of getting jumped by b'rer bear. In steep stuff I'd just drag a deer down hill, but in up-and-down going the dragging thing is a drag.

That guy at least has someone with him. Not uncommon to do it alone in the wilderness. I knew an eighty-something year old pioneer who still packed venison that way.

I guess not too many people hunt alone or a long ways from other people any more...

Grizz

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:48 pm

RR....great photo (as usual)

The horse looks like a "fleabit" not an Appy. The halter is a half-hitch & doesn't seen to have a bit. I use both a half-hitch & a four knot for training. You wouldn't want to try to ride the range with such a halter. Can't see the shanks. Doesn't seem to have any shanks for the bit. The saddle looks like any ordinary calvary saddle made during the time. Prolly store bought. The pic is prolly posed. Or at least posed for the pic by a genuine deluxe horseman.

Appies usually have the spots on their rumps & trunk. Fleabits are spotted on their legs, neck & chest. Looks to me like a pretty good cow pony from the pic. It looks like an outside shot & the man could be the real deal...who knows?

My Mare is a full bred bay mustang, no domestic blood (estray) in her. She's a thowback to the Spanish Barb, classic confirmation, 14.2 hands. She's an alpha mare with a typical attitude to boot! Like any knothead she'll buck & kick in the round pen when she doesn't want to do what I want. Can't ever let her do that, she does what I want always-or else

Keep the pics coming, they're super!

LB

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:14 am

I think it was taken in California, thats a Citrus tree on the left, and an Oleander bush on the right.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:45 am

I'd say the horse is a "grey" with advanced dappling.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:14 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:I'd say the horse is a "grey" with advanced dappling.

Yup! The lightening type markings on the legs may be reminiscent of the classic Appy marking,... but I agree with it being a real nice gray!

Found a Flea Bit pic,.... hope it works.

http://www.grullablue.com/colors/roanco ... n_gray.jpg

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:57 pm

Great photo rangerider! Thanks for posting!

bogie

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:01 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:For those deer hunters out there, how do stage something this foolish?

The rut is a beautiful thing...

bogie

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:31 pm

Gray horse, posed photo. That saddle is a center fire, single rigged saddle. Cowboys used them but not as much as double rigged saddles. The horn don't look like it's had too much of anything dallied to it.
As far as the rope goes, who knows. In those days you didn't have new ones that close at hand and they tended to use them way beyond what we would now.
Still it's a neat picture.

Dirty Dan · Post by **Dirty Dan** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:39 pm

Dappled grey horse. Stirrups don't look too short to me, given where they are in relation to the horse. The rig is not a working cowhands. Nobody that uses a rope for a living would have it looking like the one hanging from the horn and no flank cinch on the saddle. That rope is more likely a stake rope or picket rope.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:11 pm

Cool!

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:37 am

California cowboys were all dally-ropers, and a centerfire rig was the order of the day. Those old boys laughed at anyone who thought he needed two cinches on his saddle.

Still find a lot of working centerfire saddles in CA & Nevada.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:17 pm

Hmmmm,... never knew that stirrup length had any relationship to the horse. Learn something new every day.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:00 pm

76/444 wrote:Hmmmm,... never knew that stirrup length had any relationship to the horse. Learn something new every day.

IT DON'T --- SO YOU DIDN'T...

Meeteetse · Post by **Meeteetse** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:05 pm

All pictures of this era are posed and in all likelihood the kit and horse don't even belong to the cowboy. Spend a little time in the old west museums around Wyoming where I grew up and you will find hundreds of similar photos showing working cowboys, or at least locals who wanted a picture taken to send to a girl friend or family back east. Not terribly different than pictures taken every year at Cheyenne Frontier Days with all the appropriate costumes, guns (fake) and borrowed horses. Infact the picture is strangely similar to one our family got my older brother to stage a couple of years ago at the county fair in Casper, WY. He is 70 years old and has been ranching for over 50 years, but the photo made him look like an eastern dude.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:25 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:
76/444 wrote:Hmmmm,... never knew that stirrup length had any relationship to the horse. Learn something new every day.
IT DON'T --- SO YOU DIDN'T...

Hmmm,... not according to what Dirty Dan posted.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:30 pm

Stirrup length is adjusted for the leg of the rider.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:01 am

20cows wrote:Stirrup length is adjusted for the leg of the rider.

Um, yep.

Wes · Post by **Wes** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:20 am

Like I said Buck, some cowboys did use centerfire or single rigged saddles. We still have one Hamley that's put together that way.
Being born and raised on a ranch (and still running it) I see a lot of saddle time. Look at that saddle horn and you can tell it hasn't been used for ranch work.
In my neck of the woods you saw a lot of double rigged saddles back at that time. Even then people realized you needed to take care of your horses back.
I've seen quite a few old pictures from around this ranch (homesteaded by my relatives in the 1870's) near that time frame. Some of them are posed like that. Very few are outside in the fields.
That rope would be coiled better and hanging on a rope strap too.
It would be neat to find out who the guy is and where he's at for sure.

76/444 · Post by **76/444** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:55 am

20cows wrote:Stirrup length is adjusted for the leg of the rider.

Duhhhhh, geee, I always thought so too. I only broke eight of the twelve head I have now, and felt right never changing my stirrup length for each of those eight, or all of them I broke or trained over the past 50 years, until I read Dirty Dan's post.

winchester1886 · Post by **winchester1886** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:57 pm

Might as well add my pennies worth, I guessing California mid to late 1920's the saddle looks old in the picture I would guess maybe 1890's looks like a light weight California Stock Saddle to me, single rig, small round skirts, high fork and tall graceful horn all look California.
Plains saddles were generally a lot heavier they ran 40-50 pounds, were generally lower in the fork and a lot thicker front to back through the fork, this was because the Cowboys from Texas and North through the great plains right right up to Wyoming and Montana were generally tie hard and fast men, where as the Buckaroo's of the West Coast and that area were generally dally ropers.
I think the rope is to heavy to be a roper's rope I think it is just a rope for the picture, and it's not held on with a rope strap because if you notice there are no strings on the saddle, that is one of the reasons I think the saddle is a lot older then the picture the strings are all gone.
If you notice the belt he is wearing looks like an old gun belt to me with the holster missing, but if you also notice on the right side you can see where the leather is cut down and the slot goes to fit the holster to the belt, this I am told is a Hollywood gunslinger rig and didn't come in until the 1920's.
If you notice in old pictures they always wear their holsters high on their hip, this is because the gun belt goes through the back of the holster as lots of you know, and this was to keep it up and out of the way of their leg when they were riding.
I think that the man the horse the saddle the gun and the kit on the ground have never met before they just met for the picture. But so what still a good old picture.
For any of you that are interested if you want to look at old cowboy pictures just click in Edwin E Smith on Google I spend hours there.
Another site I have found that I also spend hours at is called The Handbook of Texas Online a fantastic site.
I go on there looking up the history of all the old Texas Ranches, I am about to start a file of the old ranches so I can learn their history, amazing how many of them are still running today.
I recommend both these sites to all of you, have a look because it is YOUR HISTORY and you are lucky to have such colorful and exciting history.
And as I have said before on here the American Cowboy should be the international symbol for freedom.

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:06 pm

any given day I ride horses that vary in height from near 17 hands down to 14.... my stirrups never change. I guess my pants will always be a 31inch inseam...

those old saddle stirrup leathers had laces for adjustment... the blevins buckle is a fairly recent invention. I have repaired a few of those laced leathers... It takes a while to adjust those... once they are set, they're set.

right now I have a centerfire rigged saddle apart on my bench... made in Denver Co ...probably in the 30's... and it looks like it was used to drag a few calfs to the fire....