30WCF - What's so great about it?

[JohndeFresno]

What's so great about it??!?

- It can handle several power levels
- Its ammo is cheap
- Easy to reload
- It's enough
- Its rifle is handy
- It's cool
- It's American!
Nothing personal, but anybody who doesn't like the 30-30 is a Communist.

[piller]

I have never used a .303 Brit, so I can't say anything about them. I have used a .30-30, have killed several deer with one, and it works well if the shooter just gets to know his gun. I have made the mistake down in Hondo of taking a gun that I had target shot 40 rounds total, made a bad shot and wounded the animal with a perfectly good caliber. I have a .30-30 and will keep it for the times I am shooting deer sized game at 100 yards or less. I prefer the Remington Core-loct 150 grain bullets, my wife prefers the 150 grain PMC Starfire. That is what worked for us best. I can find ammo for the .30-30, .30-06, .270, and .243 at the store I work at. I'll sort of stick with what works and is available.

[86er]

Another great thing - the least expensive, least technical jacketed bullets are the one's that work the best.

[Lastmohecken]

In general, the best thing about the 30/30 is the fact that is has for the most part been chambered in one or two of the sweetest handling and carrying rifles ever made, mainly the pre-64 Model 94 Winchester, and the Marlin 336, plus it's plenty of power for the woods ranges commonly encountered when hunting america's most popular game animal, which is the whitetail deer.

There are plenty of better calibers, and guns with more knockdown and reach available, then the 30/30, and there always has been, even from almost the start of the 30/30's introduction, but the combination of a light, fasthandling, moderate recoiling, and still very effective weapon, has rarely been duplicated, and that is why the old leveraction 30/30 has been so popular, for so many years, plus most everyone wants at least one, even if it's not the only rifle they own or use.

[hondo1892]

A Marlin 336 was the first deer rifle I had. My parents got for a christmas gift wnen I was thirteen. I've had 30-06, 300 savage, 45-70, 7mm-08 and now I'm back to the 30-30 marlin. It's enough gun for where I shoot and I've never lost a deer with it. I've got a 1894 Winchester rifle in 32-40 that I would trade for a 30-30 at the drop of a hat. Just because 30-30 ammo is so easy to find and cheap.

[Old Savage]

Post pics of the 32-40 - you will likely get a group of offers.

[Pathfinder09]

I've got a 336 and a Savage 99 in .30-30. It's a good timber rifle for any game. They sure seem to like them up in Alaska for a general purpose rifle. They've taken moose and bear with them. The fact is it's a darn good cartridge and I think more deer have been taken with a .30-30 than anyother caliber.

Yes there are more modern calibers and short calibers etc at infinitem. Gun and ammo makers have to make money somehow. Just because it's old doesn't mean is doesnt work anymore. Just my $.02.

[2ndovc]

I've had about half dozen 30-30s over the last 20+ yrs. Always had at least on around but none of them had really impressed me all that much until I got a Savage 99H a few months ago.

I can't put my finger on it but I just love that rifle and it's chambered in an easily found/ reloaded cartridge.

I can't see me parting with it any time soon.


jb

[Travis Morgan]

Marc,

I didn't say the .30-30 was gonna knock anything on it's butt or that it was a long range gun. It's just handy as hell and perfect for the guy that gets to know it intimately. The trajectory can be a bit tricky, but then, I carried one every day, everywhere for a darn long while. You get to know your holdover intuitively, and the .30-30 will teach you to HUNT sitting in a treestand with a scoped rifle, IMHO, ain't hunting. (and I'm crippled!) The lessons learned with a gun like a '94 in .30-30 will make you a much better shot and a much better hunter. I know some guys that can do things with that old levergun that would impress (or depress) most once a year "hunters" with their overpriced bolt guns they never practice with.

[Marc]

Travis,
It's all in good fun! I know what I know and I know how to hunt. In fact it's about all I know how to do really well. I am also a fair rifle shot. I hunt on foot and cover a lot of very rough country. I believe in using the right tool for the job. I bought a range finder last fall and I have been ranging the places where I have killed deer before. One thing I learned is that I am a very lousy judge of distance. 100 yard errors are common. Anyway when I was out hunting last week I ranged the distance on a shot I made on a very good buck a few years ago. I didn't know how far it was. I was using a 264 Win Mag. I held a few inches high and the bullet hit a few inches lower than I wanted. Didn't matter-he died. One shot kill. That rifle hits point of aim at 300 yards. The shot ranged at 350 yards. Would you use a 30-30 at that distance? If you did it would just be a stunt. It is not the tool for a long cross canyon shot and it is irresponsible to try something like that with a 30-30. Oh, I know you can get closer. Not really. He was laying on a little bench on the side of a near vertical canyon wall. We went up to him on all fours and my wife was afraid to stand up when we got up there. If you were on the same side as he was you couldn't see him anyway.

Shooting is my hobby. I really enjoy off hand shooting with my iron sighted leverguns and cast bullets. I don't shoot my 30-30's anymore because my newest fun gun is a 1873 Winchester in 44 WCF. It is a sweety. We have a number of gongs on the range out to 290 yards. I can ring any one of those gongs on demand with that 44. I was just there doing it this morning.

So you have to watch those generalizations. There are a few of us who use scope sighted bolt guns that know how to hunt and know how to shoot. Besides, it is danged hard to find a tree to sit in where I hunt.

Incidentally, I have killed one deer with a levergun. I used a 356 Winchester with a 250 grain cast bullet at 2100 FPS. Range was 260 yards.

[Travis Morgan]

Marc,

I could tell you the stuff I do with open sighted leverguns, but you'd probably not believe me. I WILL tell ya though, that 200 + yard shots are entirely doable with a Henry H001 .22 LR. Mine will keep the shots in a gopher hole at that distance.

[Old Time Hunter]

Gotta cousin that hasn't seen the need for anything but his 1969 Montgomery Ward .30-30 since he bought it new in 1969. In 1969 he came back from 'Nam, looked around the homestead and decided he wanted to make the wild outdoors his life. He has worked as a guide, an outfitter, a ranch hand, a government hunter, and a few other things probably not socially acceptable from the foothills of the Rockies near El Paso to the Brooks Range in Alaska and everything in between. He has also shot, killed, and harvested every naturally grown critter available from there to here, from the largest Bear Alaska could offer, to Pronghorns in Wyoming, Elk in Colorado, and Puma in New Mexico. Probably a thousand over the last forty years. He has been offered as "tips" the newest wiz-bang super magnum night vision laser sighted stuff, and has always declined, 'cause none of those are better than his trusty Montgomery Ward .30-30 with a broken wrist mended up with a metal strap and duct tape and a epoxied on ghost ring rear sight. He also says that every country store and suttler in the bush carries .30-30's so ammo is always there.

[tman]

Gotta cousin that hasn't seen the need for anything but his 1969 Montgomery Ward .30-30 since he bought it new in 1969. In 1969 he came back from 'Nam, looked around the homestead and decided he wanted to make the wild outdoors his life. He has worked as a guide, an outfitter, a ranch hand, a government hunter, and a few other things probably not socially acceptable from the foothills of the Rockies near El Paso to the Brooks Range in Alaska and everything in between. He has also shot, killed, and harvested every naturally grown critter available from there to here, from the largest Bear Alaska could offer, to Pronghorns in Wyoming, Elk in Colorado, and Puma in New Mexico. Probably a thousand over the last forty years. He has been offered as "tips" the newest wiz-bang super magnum night vision laser sighted stuff, and has always declined, 'cause none of those are better than his trusty Montgomery Ward .30-30 with a broken wrist mended up with a metal strap and duct tape and a epoxied on ghost ring rear sight. He also says that every country store and suttler in the bush carries .30-30's so ammo is always there.

how can it be said any better? if you can SHOOT and HUNT, the 30wcf is all you need for all dangerous north american at ranges at which such game should be shot.just don't tell the gun writer's

[Travis Morgan]

Even during the worst of times last winter and this spring, .30-30 ammo was available, and at a reasonable price.

[Marc]

Travis,
I believe you. I play those games myself. It's all part of the challenge of shooting. My favorite game to play with a rifle is High Powered Rifle Silhouette. That is off hand out to 500 meters. I have shot the course with a 30-30 and cast bullets. I haven't done very well with it because of sight issues. You need a lot of elevation adjustment at 500 meters. That project needs more work.

I guess the thing that trips us up is that we tend to think hunting is the same everywhere as it is where we hunt. We all face different challenges when we go hunting. I don't know any serious hunters in my area that use an iron sighted levergun. We all use scope sighted bolt guns. Not because we can't shoot with iron sights or don't like leverguns. It is purely because an iron sighted levergun is not the best tool for the job. I used to think my average shot at a deer was 200 yards. Since I have the range finder I have found that many of my deer kills were at longer range. The average is probably closer to 250 yards. Again to use a 30-30 for stuff like that is little more than a stunt since there are so many better combinations for that application.

[Travis Morgan]

Would you mind sharing your cast bullet load for that range? I've not really done as much testing for CB as I should. I could use some .30-06 cast loads, too.

[Marc]

My standard short range 30-30 load is a Saeco 311 sized at .310" and 21 grains of IMR 4198. The bullet weighs about 165 grains. I used it for 200 meter chickens and 300 meter pigs. It shoots very well in my rifle. My long range load was 32 grains of Win 760 with a 200 grain Saeco 301. It chronographed at 1970 FPS from a 24" barrel. It did not shoot as well as the short range load. I think I have a forend problem with that rifle that shows up when I shoot heavier loads. I never got my sight issues sorted either and got distracted by another project. I really need a 26" octagon barrel for that game. These loads are seated long and I single loaded them.

My standard 30-06 load was a 180 grain Lee bullet and 32 grains of AA2495. That load shot real good. The 165 grain Saeco 311 shoots good too with 25 grains of 4198. I like 4198 a lot for moderate cast bullet loads. I haven't shot the 30-06 with cast bullets in a long time. Been playing with leverguns.

Where do you hail from, Travis?

[Travis Morgan]

I'm in Wichita, Ks., right now. I was raised about a half hour from here, but have lived all over. Once this divorce is over, I want to move back to ranching country and enjoy life again. I miss working outdoors with animals and being able to step out the door with a rifle to hunt when I darn well please, rather than having to pack up and drive somewhere.

[Marc]

I hear that! I am an old farm boy surrounded by to many people. Maybe when my wife retires we will get back to the country.

[Travis Morgan]

I'm sick of "maybe" and "someday" and putting someone else first EVERY time I have a choice to make. I'm gonna go enjoy MY life, not watch someone else's from the stands.

[Bogie35]

"More deer are shot and wounded [and not recovered] with the 30-30 each year than all other cartridges combined". - Craig Boddington

"The 30-30 is still one of the most popular deer rifles. With all the new cartridges available, a proportionate share of whitetail deer fall to the 30-30, as has been the case since its introduction" - Craig Boddington

Well - if more shots are fired with the 30-30 at deer, then proportionately the # of "wounded deer" would naturally increase too.

"So many 30-30's are dusted off for deer season each year it is ritualistic" - Layne Simpson

Well if inexperienced, out of practice, once a year shooters drag a ton of 30-30's into the woods, many with open sights that are misused with trajectories that are misunderstood, it contributes to the other statements above.

Ah- but if it were a scope sighted 308 that was dusted off the sighting, trajectory and power would be more than adequate to provide lethal shots even if taken by marginal marksman, thereby increasing the # of deer killed and recovered.

Right?

Boddington is an idiot. He's so deep in the pockets of the magnum-makers that it's pathetic. Truth be known, he probably couldn't kill anything unless he's led to it by a PH and handed shooting sticks.

Anyway, no cartridge is "good" unless it can be had in a Marlin 336 or 1894 (or a Winchester 94 or 92 ). But, the 30-30 is iconic for more reasons than "we saw it in the movies". Choosing a cartridge is like everything else in America today...overdone. We used to be able to survive nicely on corn, beans, and squash. Now we need asparagus, artichoke, and sushi. And we wonder why our kids have ADHD.

The 30-30 has done more, and will continue to do more, than all of Boddington's magnums combined. HOWEVER, in about 1950, Marlin started chambering their Model 336 in 35 Remington. This changed the face of hunting history, in that the 35 Remington is clearly a superior cartridge, although hunters have been somewhat slow to catch on.

bogie

[L_Kilkenny]

Tell me about the oh holy .35 Remington. Why is it so much better? Or answer it this way, how many deer are shot each year with the .35 Rem that wouldn't have also been killed with the lowly 30/30? (First you have to find the dozen or so deer killed each year with the .35 )

And we wonder why the .35 Rem is basically a "fan cartridge" that see's very little use compared to about any other comparable round. Kinda like the .220 Swift.

Is it better? Balistics say so. But aparently you don't need the improved balistics to kill a deer. If you did you'd find .35 Rem ammo/guns everywhere and 30/30 ammo/guns would be scarce. Instead it's the other way around.

LK

[Travis Morgan]

Okay, since you demand that of us, explain the following, since you know so much. Why is a .38 cal bullet better or worse than a 9mm for self defense? Why is a .38 cal. 158 gr any better than a similar sized .30 cal? Why is the .30 Luger not more popular for self defense? Why not use a .357 carbine instead of a .30-30, .38-55, or .35 ?

Did you just run out of something to do?

[Don McDowell]

Okay, since you demand that of us, explain the following, since you know so much. Why is a .38 cal bullet better or worse than a 9mm for self defense?
38's better cuz the 9mm is from Europe and most things from there just plain suck.
Why is a .38 cal. 158 gr any better than a similar sized .30 cal?
Cuz its pure majic Gunwriters have told us so for decades now, thought you'ld a caught on a couple years back already
Why is the .30 Luger not more popular for self defense?
Cuz lugers are from Europe, very expensive to acquire and not many of them around.
Why not use a .357 carbine instead of a .30-30, .38-55, or .35 ?
Cuz I ain't got one nomo.

Did you just run out of something to do?
Naw, got to get the corrals fixed, but I saw this and jeeeesstt couldn't help myself.

[L_Kilkenny]

Okay, since you demand that of us, explain the following, since you know so much. Why is a .38 cal bullet better or worse than a 9mm for self defense?

IMO, it's not. the main advantages/disadvantages are the platform they are available in.

Why is a .38 cal. 158 gr any better than a similar sized .30 cal?

Again, in many cases it's not. The 7.62 Tokarev is one mighty fine man stopper.

Why is the .30 Luger not more popular for self defense?

The question is why. Way to many good calibers already readily available.

Why not use a .357 carbine instead of a .30-30, .38-55, or .35 ?

Absolutely no reason. For deer, NA's predominate big game animal, at carbine ranges, 99.9% of the deer shot with any of the calibers you mentioned won't know the difference. The beloved .35 Rem doesn't add accuracy to the lever gun platforms and it doesn't have any appreciable amount of increased range. A bad shot with any of the calibers results in a wounded animal, a good shot = a dead animal. Can't kill em any deader than dead can we now. Now if you insist on going further, why use the puny .35 Rem when you can use a .45-70?

Did you just run out of something to do?

No but apparently I stepped on someones toes. Sucks don't it.

LK

[Travis Morgan]

Why not use a .45-70 instead of a middleweight that will run a little heavier bullet? Is that a serious question?

[Bogie35]

Wow. I was really just making a little joke.

But since you asked for it, I love a good fight.

LK, although deer are my favorite, they aren't the only game in North America. You will stand a more than slightly better chance of humanely killing a large bull elk from 150 yards with a 220 grain .35 cal. bullet at 2100 fps, than you would with any 30-30 load. Unless of course, you can't handle a tad more recoil well enough to place your shots. As for range, I have no need to take a shot of more than 150 yards. And at that range, the difference in trajectory is negligible. Besides, most hunters have no business taking 200 yard shots. It reminds me of the mythical 300 yard tee shot in golf; everybody claims to have done it, although few actually can, let alone with any consistency. As far as the popularity argument, Americans buy more goods manufactured in China than in the USA. Does that mean "Made in China" is better? I think not. And as for the lame ammo availability argument? Do like I've always done: TAKE PLENTY OF AMMO! I've never run out of ammo on a hunt; not even on a dove hunt! If you have, then maybe you should learn to hit your target with the first shot. You shouldn't need a box of ammo to kill a deer!

bogie

[Bogie35]

Oh I forgot, LK. You may need 2 or 3 shots with that 30-30.

bogie

[Travis Morgan]

Watch out Boogie, you expressed an opinion there, you might have to hug someone now!

[Bogie35]

Watch out Boogie, you expressed an opinion there, you might have to hug someone now!

[gak]

I think just about everybody's right within their own experiences and perspectives.
Thirty-thirtys have been my constant and loyal shooting companions for 40+ years. So has a stellar ca. 1951 FN-Mauser..270 and later an amazing tack-driver K-Mart package-gun Win 70 in the same caliber for the farther out stuff. But the .30-30 (in my case pre 64 Win 94) has always been there. If God or someone else of high authority were to ordain that I could only have/keep one, it'd be the .30-30...for all the reasons others have so eloquently stated.

[Travis Morgan]

Even during the worst of the ammo shortages, I've been able to find .30-30 ammo at a reasonable price.

[Bucks Owin]

I spent a few years up in BC and and can tell you that the .30/30 and .303 British outnumber the other calibers combined I'd bet. And both bring home the moose meat every year. My dad killed more than a dozen with his .270 with both 130 and 150 Noslers.(He was a big Jack O'Connor fan. Me too) I've used a .338, 06, .50 cal T/C Hawken and a .243! Shots are rarely long in "the bush" and BC moose don't seem to be iron plated. Just plunk 'em in the ribcage and let 'em go lay down and die 100 yds away. You ain't gonna blow 'em off their feet as a rule! The old .30 WCF works fine for those that use it.....