OT 30 carbine in a pistol or revolver.

[Nath]

I remembered today something else I have allways wondered and you guy's are the ones to ask so here goes.

How has/does 30carbine do in actuall shootings involving pistols, does the Evans Marshall references come up with any thing?
Any links?

Thanks.

Nath.

[Kansas Ed]

Everyone shot at with the 30 carbine pistol suffered severe hearing loss.



Ed

[Ysabel Kid]

+1 on the hearing-loss. Darn thing can blind you too due to the muzzle flash. In my Ruger Blackhawk it is accurate as sin. I have not used it hunting though, so can't comment on the kind of wound it would cause out of a short-barreled firearm like my revolver (7.5-inch tube).

It sure does get a lot of attention though at the range!

[MrMurphy]

Considering how few .30 carbine pistols are out there, I'd be mightily surprised if there was a track record of more than 1 shooting in that caliber with a handgun. I've shot a Blackhawk in .30 carbine. Interesting, but no more than a .357 or similar.

[Doc Hudson]

I guess it is somewhat paradoxical but I've heard two vastly different opinions on the .30 Carbine cartrudge.

All my life I've heard people low-rating the .30 Carbine as being too under-powered for a respectable deer cartridge.

I've also heard many people brag on what a great deer-slayer their .30 Carbine Blackhawk is.

Makes no sense!!

If a .30 Carbine slug from an 18" rifle barrel is no great shakes a deer cartridge, how can it, from a barrel 10" shorter and 500+ fps slower turn into a deer deathray in a Ruger Blackhawk.

I've known two people who've killed deer with .30 Carbines, M-1 Carbines in both cases. One said that he shot one deer that dropped in its tracks and another that required five shots to anchor. The other killed two deer with his M-1 last year, one was a one shot kill the other required a finisher shot.

So is the .3- Carbine an adequate deer cartridge? maybe it is, and maybe it ain't. I figure it has more to do with the crank yanking the trigger than it has the cartridge's power.

As a defensive round, I'll admit to having doubts. The cartridge was designed to wound and disable rather than strictly as a "stomp 'em flat" sort of cartridge. Even for defense, I think I'd prefer a carbine to a handgun due to the ungodly muzzle-blast and flash as well as the major velocity loss.

It has been a number of years since I read Evan Marshall's study and I don't remember any mention of the .30 Carbine in handguns or carbines. Since the .30 Carine handguns are designed to be and sold as hunting handguns, i seriously doubt if there have enough defensive shootings with them to be able to draw statistical conclusions.

Personally, I'd rather have a .357 Magnum, .44 S&W Special or .38 S&W Special for defensive use.

[awp101]

Everyone shot at with the 30 carbine pistol suffered severe hearing loss.



Ed

And third degree burns as well as a concussion from the muzzle flash and blast...

[Malamute]

The power level is below what the 357 mag is capable of for similar weight bullets when used in a handgun.

The muzzle blast is hideous in a handgun.

[MrMurphy]

The .30 carbine did well enough in WW2 used at the shorter distances it was intended for. In Korea (with heavier clothing) and also with the full auto M2, which was never all that reliable, it didn't do as well. Also, ranges were typically longer in Korea. I knew an old command sergeant major who did 4 yrs in WW2 in Europe, 3 in Korea during the war and 3 tours in Vietnam, and he did fine with the carbine in WW2, didn't mind it (though he tended to use a Grease Gun more) in Korea and didn't carry anything more than a .45 or an odd M16 in Vietnam.

[Nath]

So how does it rate to 32H&R? There must be some data for 32H&R?

Nath.

[Doc Hudson]

So how does it rate to 32H&R? There must be some data for 32H&R?

Nath.

I don't remember any of the exact figures, but I believe that some of the .32 H&R Mag loads gave results very similar to some .38 S&W Special loads.

[Hillbilly]

SW prototyped a few 30 carbine revolvers for the US Army during WW2... rejected out of hand at the early trials... to loud and too much muzzle blast,
(Supica and Nahause's SW reference book)

I understand at least one of the 30carbine cal N frames is in a collection.

[JerryB]

I fired a Blackhawk .30cal several years ago.It was accurate but the muzzle blast was intolerable, one shot was more than enough. Out of my grandson's M1 carbine it is OK.

[JimT]

Many moons ago - in the last century - I believe it was George Nonte who fired a Colt SAA conversion to .30 Carbine. He described it similar to ".. having a dynamite cap go off in each ear while someone slapped you in the face with wet towel.."

I bought a brand-new Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine in 1969 when I was discharged from the Army. Bought as much ammo as I could for it and handloaded for it. It did not work well with cast bullets due to the sharp "step" in the chamber- where the cartridge headspaced. It would shave "rings" of lead from the bullets and in 2 to 4 shots you could not chamber a round with removing the cylinder and cleaning it.

It was superbly accurate. A 2 gallon oil can at 200 yards was no problem. From a rest it was easy to keep all shots on it.

Handloads with 90 gr. bullets were over 2000 fps muzzle velocity with the heaviest loads possible.

Standing in front of my '64 Fairlane, when I torched off a shot the bumper would ring for several minutes.

We did not wear ear plugs in those days and my ears still whistle from shooting that gun 40 years later.

The noisy little cartridge worked very well on dogs, cats, coyotes etc. I never used it for self defense but it would have worked fine.

[Kansas Ed]

My buddy has a really nice 3 screw RBH in .30 carbine. After suffering from the muzzle blast and being determined to make it a useful revolver, we opted to try some cast bullet loads below the speed of sound. It didn't make any difference. That really surprised us, as we figured that getting them below that level would drastically reduce the muzzle blast. We had them running about 960 fps @ 15 feet out, and still no dice. What a lovely firearm and all kinds of potential from that cartridge, but just painful and disappointing that we can't bear to shoot it.

Ed

[Sixgun]

I will agree with Jim T. My OM 30 carbine leads the throats up with cast, but with the standard jacketed round, its possibly my best shooting sixgun out to reasonable ranges of 200-250 meters.

A good friend of mine who was a Korean vet told me every Chinaman he shot with his M-1 Carbine went down for the keeps. He was telling me how he used the water cooled Browning at hoards of Chinamen and the barrels would heat up to the point where they "cooked off" the rounds. While his ammo man was changing the barrels, he would pick up his M-1 carbine and "go to town" on the Chinese.

I just don't know about the little cartridge. I hear so much on both sides of the coin. Personally, from the inanimate targets I've shot with it and seeing how explosive it is, I would not feel undergunned in a defensive situation, but.........I sure would feel better with a Thompson or a REAL M-1, the Garand --------------Sixgun

[TedH]

He described it similar to ".. having a dynamite cap go off in each ear while someone slapped you in the face with wet towel.."

[Rusty]

Det. Jim Cirello (sp?) from the NYPD stake out team used an M-1 Carbine with 110 grain soft points and claimed it had a great deal of knock down power for him and it was the best tool for his job.

The Ruger Blackhawk I had in .30 carbine was very fussy about ammo and would only chamber about 1 in 4 rounds of surplus stuff I had.

I would think it should be about equal to a .32-20.

[Ben_Rumson]

Including Audie Murphy there are about 45 Medal Of Honor recipients that used the M1 Carbine with the majority falling into the offensive category... with the bulk falling during the Korean War... It's easy for me to call it an assault rifle now that I have this info...And what a piece of design genius... Lighter by just about half than an MP 40 and twice as powerful as the 9mm..... The Chinese “Burp gun” weighed up to 12lbs with the drum mag and used the tiny 7.62 X 25 round.. The STG 44 weighed as much as the Garand but not as powerful and not too much more powerful the the 30 Carbine round...The Russians and Brits did have lighter stamped 9mm SMGs....
Yes, the Marines did have carbines freeze up at the “Frozen Chosin” but they used Vitalis hair oil to get them back in order... And yes again, the Marines in Korea lost faith in the carbine... But here’s the weird part... There were more than twice as many failures of the BAR.... The troubles with the BAR were traced back to the rebuilt ones... Reused springs thought to be OK at the time of rebuild failed in the early and extremly cold days of the war..

[jhrosier]

Nath,
I have two .30 Carbine handguns, the Contender and a Ruger Blackhawk.
They spend most of the time in the gunsafe and I wouldn't notice if either went missing for a couple of years.

I used the Contender back in the day when I shot NRA Hunters Pistol Silhouette.
It doesn't take much energy to topple those targets and it shot flat enough.
I bought a bunch of PMC factory ammo, mainly to get the brass. For some reason, .30 carbine brass was very hard to get in the early '80s.
The PMC factory ammo that was available in those days shot very well.
I never found a handload that would do as well as the factory load.

The muzzle blast is very unpleasant in the revolver.

The .357 Mag is a much better choice for almost any purpose.

Jack

[mescalero1]

Used to use it on West Texas jackrabitts out of a Ruger.
I would like it today.
32-20?
No comparison.

[Bang]

Out of my Blackhawk its plain awful. I still have hundreds of round left over after the government destroyed 99% of the legal semi auto's here.
With ear plugs and glasses its ugly to shoot.

I am looking at a 1970's Marlin 76 in .30 carbine though - the owner doesn't know it yet but he needs to sell it to me soon.