OT - LONESOME DOVE

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:11 am

FINALLY got to see Lonesome Dove in its entirity. Very enjoyable and a great Flick! What is your favorite part of the movie? I would think mine was in the friend, in the end, making the journey to bury his friend, keeping his word and enduring much. Other than that, the chicken dance shot is a good one.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:29 am

Where 'ya been the last 20+ years...???

LONESOME DOVE should be REQUIRED viewing for any and all levergunners.

It ain't perfect, but it's closer than almost anything else.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:05 pm

I saw it many moons ago when it was a mini series on the boob tube.
It was OK, but not up to John Wayne's standards. We got the original mini series on CD around here somewhere.

Joe

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:15 pm

Favorites:

The scene where they are all riding off for Mexico to gather some stock. If that scene doesn't make you want to drop everything and be a Cowboy, nothing will!

When Gus is looking over the old homestead and thinking of all the memories there(if it was real

).

The scene where Newt gets quirted and Call runs his horse into the Army scouts mounts and proceeds to open up a serious can of whoop butt.

Also the scene when gus takes care of the Commancheros when they have Laurie on the River.

Yup...the chicken dance seen is a good one.

It's hard to pick only a few.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:16 pm

rjohns94 wrote:What is your favorite part of the movie?

Enough is ENOUGH!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:18 pm

I think it's a great movie and yes, I think it should be required viewing for any levergunner. There's a number of good areas I really like in the film. One is when the scout for the calvary guys starts messing with Newt and Captain takes exception. The next one is when Blue Duck sends those guys to get McCrae and he plugs the one guy in the gut with his Henry.

rock-steady · Post by **rock-steady** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:20 pm

The scene where Big Zwey knifed the fellow on the whisky boat that was eyeballing Elmira. He pulled a bowie an juuged the dude in a flash. The man was dead before he hit the deck.

I liked the part where Deets appeared to P.I. after the indians shot Gus too.

I never figured out if Deets was an ex-Confederate soldier (his kepi) or a Federal.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:42 pm

The whole thing was pretty darn good..... I like to watch it at least once a year or so...

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:06 pm

I think it's at the beginning of the "chicken dance" saga..When Gus gets bucked off his horse out on the plains..I swear if you freeze frame any part of him being dismounted..You'll have a Frederick Remington painting on video... I have heard that Duval getting bucked off was unscripted and the horse truly did spook and buck him off..

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:13 pm

My favorite scenes:

Chicken Dance
&
Call whoopin butt

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:23 pm

When Woodrow Call whipped the Army Sargent and said to the people standing by, "I don't tolerate rude behavior in a man."

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:10 pm

All the scenes mentioned are excellent. Another would be the taking the Walker out in the bar and conkin' the barkeep over the head.

Call's fulfullment of his promise to Gus and the hanging of Jake Spoon define their character and that of those they would respect.

Outside of "the Shootist", LD is better by far than anything JW did. One other possible exception is "the Cowboys". Those two were (IMO) the high water mark of JW's career.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:16 pm

10-4 on Griff, but i would add The Searchers to it. LD is a class act.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:34 pm

As opposed to that miserable redo Return to LD.....Man, I watched the first ten minutes and it seriously stunk badly

I thought that fool trying to do Duval would jerk his arm out of the socket

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:36 pm

i will raise on the requirement of watching the movie/mimi-series to say that any real Old West Buff/Leverguner ought to read the book on which it is based.

IMO it is one of the best if not the absolute best Western Novels ever written. Unfortunately Larrry McMurtry doesn't know beans about guns. Otherwise he'd never have waxed eloquent about the great power of a Henry Rifle.

There are too many great scenes to pick just one, but the pistol-whipping of the snotty bartender is one of the first to spring to mind.

Did you know that Gus McCrae's character is strongly based on the life of Oliver Loving?

Both were natives of Tennesssee.

Both were Rangers and cattlemen.

Both had strong-willed, taciturn partners.

Loving caught a Comanche arrow in the shoulder.
Gus took a Blood arrow in the leg.

Loving died of blood poisoning, after amputation of his arm, in Fort Sumner, New Mexico Territory.

Loving's dying request was, "Don't bury me in foreign soil. Take me back to Texas.

Loving's partner, Charlie Goodnight, packed his body in salt and charcoal, sealed him in a coffin covered in flattened keerosene cans and hauled his body back to Texas in a wagon for burial.

I might enjoy John Wayne Westerns more, but IMO, Lonesome Dove captures the spirit and real facts of the Old West better than the Duke ever did.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:50 pm

Love em all, but give me a good ol Clint movie! an example--"The Outlaw Josey Wales" Ya,that will do!

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:49 pm

Favorite line ...

Gus ... "I've shot many a sassy bandit with just my pistol"

Then he backs it up a little later when he went into the Commanchero camp

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:13 pm

"Guess you can't fly after all."

I think the most memorable scene for me is when the crossed the Red? River and that kid fell into the nest of Moccasins. That creeped me out for weeks after seeing that..........

I can still see the cut frame of him resurfacing with that big snake stuck to his face....ugh....

Ed

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:46 pm

My dad bought me the entire 4 movie box when LD first came out on VHS over 15 years ago I suspect. I probably watched it 15 times through the years. Funny how I seem to catch some little something I missed in all the times before as I watch it again. I watched most of the TV rerun this week, still enjoyed it as usual. I particualrly like the scene where Gus and Woodrow go into the bar for old time sakes, and Gus slams the barkeeps face into the bar-top for his dis-respect. If a guy did that today, you'd probably go to jail, be sued, and likely lose your gun rights.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:04 pm

I'm still in love with the little blond hooker. I don't remember any other parts of the movie.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:16 pm

Ben_Rumson wrote:I think it's at the beginning of the "chicken dance" saga..When Gus gets bucked off his horse out on the plains..I swear if you freeze frame any part of him being dismounted..You'll have a Frederick Remington painting on video... I have heard that Duval getting bucked off was unscripted and the horse truly did spook and buck him off..

If you look close there is no flank strap on that horse (to make him buck) That nag has the look of a spooked hoss in just the way he tosses himself around.

All the other bucking scenes the horse have flank straps.

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:27 pm

This is one of my favorite movies. Gus is my hero. This is the first movie in what I call the Robert Duvall trilogy. Lonsome Dove, Open Range , and Broken Trail. All great due in my opinion to Robert Duvall.

My favorite sceen in LD is early on in the film when woodrow was givoing Gus hell for being lazy. Gus said,"Woodrow you do more than you have to, which forces me to do less. It just balances things out."

I don't own many movies, but I own this one..

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:34 pm

Pathfinder09 wrote:This is one of my favorite movies...Lonsome Dove, Open Range , and Broken Trail. All great due in my opinion to Robert Duvall...

...and the movie saw perhaps the best acting by Tommy Lee Jones in his career.

My favorite part was the first 6 hours. By far one of the best Western "anythings" ever produced... the story, the actors (especially Duvall and Jones), the filming (and therefore the editing), the full range of adventure, romance, humor, and pathos - and it wasn't slimed with the typical Hollywood obsession with and preponderance of vulgarity and sadism, even though there was plenty of realistic grit as it fit the story.

We (my wife and I) have to watch it at least once each year.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:43 pm

I'm gonna be a stick in the mud on this one. I'll watch it and it's OK but it's far from being a favorite. I could do without much of the drama. The relationships between Gus and the 2 women, the cowhand in love, the bartender that killed himself over Lori, etc etc. Plus, I like to watch movies where I actually "care" about the characters. The only character I liked was Gus. Any of the others could go jump off a cliff for all I care. The pregnant tramp with the 2 retards, the pathetic Arkansas sheriff, the moron sent to follow the sheriff, the stupid girl that could throw rocks, etc etc, who really wants to watch a movie in which that plays such a big role. Should of stuck to a cowboy movie instead of a over done drama. IMO of coarse.

Ya, ya, I know it was based on a book, the book sucked too and so did the prequel.

LK

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:51 pm

Gus and Call's exchange on the porch always gives me chuckle. It goes something like..

Gus: "He@# Woodrow,why don't you let him(Newt) sit up a while? The only chance at an education he's got is listenin' to me talk."

Call(speaking slow and serious): "What kind of education is that?"

Gus: "I suppose he'll learn more shovelin' horse poop for you?"

Call: "I shovelled my share of it, ain't hurt me none!"

Gus: "That's fine with me if that's how you want to make your fortune!" Gets up and walks off.....

Back in the early 90's I worked grave/swing for Sunkist Growers and was always awake when everyone else was asleep. Almost every night I went to bed with the series. I WORE OUT the VHS tapes and lost count of how much I watched it. Got the DVD's a few years back and still watch them a few times a year. My wife still doesn't understand......

phc45-70 · Post by **phc45-70** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:54 pm

At one time I had watched LD so many times I knew every line in it. In '93 I left Miss. on a horse hoping to catch them. Only made it as far as Colo. If I hadn't married a fat widow woman I'd take off again and this time I woudn't stop till I got way north of the Canadian border. Somewhere, where there ain't many folks. But then I guess there's bankers and lawyers everywhere you go now-a-days. Been a long time since i spend all day in the saddle, day after day. Would like to see if I still can. May have to just put a biscuit in a poke and hit the trail.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:52 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:...I know it was based on a book, the book sucked too and so did the prequel.
LK

...So, then, does that mean that it wasn't your favorite Western? Please be more specific!

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:01 am

L_Kilkenny wrote: Ya, ya, I know it was based on a book, the book sucked too and so did the prequel.

I will have to strongly disagree with your opinion of both book and movie.

IMO, the movie shines for authenticity of clothing and equipment if for no other reason. i found it quite refreshing to watch a movie set in the 1870's in which every player was not packing a Peacemaker and a Model 1892 Winchester.

i find interesting the very things you most depreciate.

The movie was not just about a trail drive and a Quixotic quest to fulfill a dying man's request. It was about life and the people of the West. Not everyone in the Old West road tall in the saddle, or behaved with the wisdom of Solomon, nor with the virtues of the Virgin Mary. The place was populated by plenty of idiots, morons,n'er-do-wells, bums, grifters, prostitutes, lovesick young men, and desperately lovesick depressed older men. Lonesome Dove told the stories of the chronically lost as well as the story of heroes. Lonesome Dove was a realistic slice of life and would be just as realistic if it were set in the 1970's as it was in the 1870's.

Some folks don't realize it, but Lonesome Dove, though first to appear, is actually the third volume of a four volume story.

The first of the series, chronologically speaking, was Dead Man's Walk. In it Call and McCrae meet and take part in the ill-fated Meier Expedition. Second in line was Comanche Moon which recounts the activities of Call and McCrae during the Great Comanche Raid of 1850 (if I recall the date correctly. The Streets of Laredo was a sequel to Lonesome Dove. I've read all four books and quite frankly I consider all but Lonesome Dove to have been a waste of time. None of them came up to the high standard established with the publication of Lonesome Dove. As for the prequel movies, I consider them to be pretty poor "B Westerns," at best. Personally I'd not pass up a good John Wayne movie in order to watch either.

But if you are bound and determined to dislike Lonesome Dove, don't worry, John Wayne movies show lots more often than Lonesome Dove. So we can both enjoy them.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:06 am

"Sodbusters...I HATE sodbusters..."

I do like Lonesome Dove, but there are many other movies I like better, better photography, etc. I've read at least 3 of the books and liked them, but they all have a self-important tone to them. Still I learned a lot, even though they're fiction.

I'm not with you guys on the John Wayne stuff. I bought Rio Bravo thinking it would be really good and it seemed like a very corny, stiff studio western that even the actors couldn't bother with. I'll have to try it again, but with so many great westerns out there, these are down on the list.

My favorites are probably "Once Upon a Time in the West" and "For a Few Dollars More". Or any of the Clint Eastwood trilogy. I loved the scene where Lee Van Clief goes to carry out a hit. The victim asks him how much he was paid, and offers to pay more to cancel the hit. Van Clief says, "Once I take a job, I always see it through". The vic gives him the money anyway, and is snuffed. Then Van Clief goes back to the guy who originally hired him, and says, "I think the idea was to kill you. And you see, once I'm paid, I always see the job through." So he does a reverse hit on the original guy. Genius.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:00 am

L_Kilkenny wrote:I'm gonna be a stick in the mud on this one. I'll watch it and it's OK but it's far from being a favorite. I could do without much of the drama. The relationships between Gus and the 2 women, the cowhand in love, the bartender that killed himself over Lori, etc etc. Plus, I like to watch movies where I actually "care" about the characters. The only character I liked was Gus. Any of the others could go jump off a cliff for all I care. The pregnant tramp with the 2 retards, the pathetic Arkansas sheriff, the moron sent to follow the sheriff, the stupid girl that could throw rocks, etc etc, who really wants to watch a movie in which that plays such a big role. Should of stuck to a cowboy movie instead of a over done drama. IMO of coarse.

Ya, ya, I know it was based on a book, the book sucked too and so did the prequel.

LK

So what is your favorite Western Movie??

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:03 am

I reckon I should buy the DVD set one of these days. Y'all refer to LD so often, I should watch it to see what the fuss is about. I actually saw parts of it back when it first came out on TV, but have never seen the ending, nor many of the important scenes mentioned.

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:14 am

One of my favourites. I watch it at least once a year. There are so many scenes that stand out, but one that always makes me chuckle is where Jake has just returned and is explaining how he had to leave Arkansas real quick because he accidentally shot a dentist. The boards of the saloon didn't stop the bullet and the dentist happened to be walking past at the time. But it was an accident and besides, nobody like a dentist. But the dentist was the mayor. But even in Arkansas they don't hang you for an accident. But the dentist was the mayor and the sheriff's brother in law. Always cracks me up. Top movie though. Has to be one of the best westerns I have seen and I do have a lot on DVD.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:44 am

Rexster wrote:I reckon I should buy the DVD set one of these days. Y'all refer to LD so often, I should watch it to see what the fuss is about. I actually saw parts of it back when it first came out on TV, but have never seen the ending, nor many of the important scenes mentioned.

If you enjoy reading at all, buy the book. As Doc H. sez, it's a wonderful tale, told with precision and in all the cinematic detail that allows one so inclined to fall into the story.

I'm a voracious reader, at least a book per week. And I hate reading a book a second time... I've read LD 3 times and enjoyed each time.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:54 am

Thats the one great things about opinions(we can each have our own)got to respect that.

To those that dont like LD,thats cool cuz there is a wide choice to choose from. For the rest of us that loves this flick thats cool too! Any decent Western with Guns/Horses back in the day.To me,I like most of em!

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:00 am

Great flick! Wasn't the timeline more the 1880's though? If I am not mistaken, Gus and Woodrow make mention of Custer.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:02 am

game keeper wrote:
So what is your favorite Western Movie??

I have many favorites hard to pick the best. Tombstone, Open Range, The original Red River, Win '73, Rio Bravo, 5 Card Stud, Outlaw Josie Wales, Pale Rider, etc etc. If I had to pick just one though it may very well be Big Country with Gregory Peck.

Doc Hudson wrote: I will have to strongly disagree with your opinion of both book and movie.

IMO, the movie shines for authenticity of clothing and equipment if for no other reason. i found it quite refreshing to watch a movie set in the 1870's in which every player was not packing a Peacemaker and a Model 1892 Winchester.

i find interesting the very things you most depreciate.

The movie was not just about a trail drive and a Quixotic quest to fulfill a dying man's request. It was about life and the people of the West. Not everyone in the Old West road tall in the saddle, or behaved with the wisdom of Solomon, nor with the virtues of the Virgin Mary. The place was populated by plenty of idiots, morons,n'er-do-wells, bums, grifters, prostitutes, lovesick young men, and desperately lovesick depressed older men. Lonesome Dove told the stories of the chronically lost as well as the story of heroes. Lonesome Dove was a realistic slice of life and would be just as realistic if it were set in the 1970's as it was in the 1870's.

Some folks don't realize it, but Lonesome Dove, though first to appear, is actually the third volume of a four volume story.

The first of the series, chronologically speaking, was Dead Man's Walk. In it Call and McCrae meet and take part in the ill-fated Meier Expedition. Second in line was Comanche Moon which recounts the activities of Call and McCrae during the Great Comanche Raid of 1850 (if I recall the date correctly. The Streets of Laredo was a sequel to Lonesome Dove. I've read all four books and quite frankly I consider all but Lonesome Dove to have been a waste of time. None of them came up to the high standard established with the publication of Lonesome Dove. As for the prequel movies, I consider them to be pretty poor "B Westerns," at best. Personally I'd not pass up a good John Wayne movie in order to watch either.

But if you are bound and determined to dislike Lonesome Dove, don't worry, John Wayne movies show lots more often than Lonesome Dove. So we can both enjoy them.

I'll agree with much you said. The period clothing/guns was a definite plus. And I liked much of the story. But there are "too many" parts that I think held it back from being truly great. All movies have plus' and minus' and there isn't a movie out there that can't be improved in our eyes to meet our own personal tastes. But LD just had too many areas I didn't like. It also had scenes that were truly some of the best ever put in a western film.

Now IIRC, wasn't LD written first. I thought the other 3 books were written after the movie and thrown together to capitalize on the success. And they showed it. Could just be internet BS I read somewhere. LOL

BTW, for the record I don't like Shane or High Noon either!!!!

LK

44magHunter · Post by **44magHunter** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:07 am

Great movie. I saw it once.......then my dad went out and bought it. All I remember is the blonde hooker...........

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:11 pm

Doc Hudson wrote: The place was populated by plenty of idiots, morons, ne'er-do-wells, bums, grifters, prostitutes, lovesick young men, and desperately lovesick depressed older men.

Are you talking about D.C. or the Old West? We aren't supposed to post political comments here, whether accurate or not...

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:20 pm

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:46 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote: Now IIRC, wasn't LD written first. I thought the other 3 books were written after the movie and thrown together to capitalize on the success. And they showed it. Could just be internet BS I read somewhere. LOL

BTW, for the record I don't like Shane or High Noon either!!!! LK

You are correct. Lonesome Dove pre-date the "prequels" by several years. in fact, the order of publication was:
1 - Lonesome Dove (book #3 in chronological order)
2 0 The Strets of Laredo (sequel to LD and a very dark and bitter book)
3 - Dead Man's Walk (#1 chronologically)
4 - Comanche Moon (#2 chronologically)

FWIW, I liked Jack Shafer's booik Shane much better than the movie, but liked the move simply because i am an Alan Ladd Fan. I'm not a great fan of High noon, even though I like Gary Cooper. Did you know that the Duke turned down the role of Will Cain because he thought the storyline too implausible.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:26 pm

phc45-70 wrote:At one time I had watched LD so many times I knew every line in it. In '93 I left Miss. on a horse hoping to catch them. Only made it as far as Colo. If I hadn't married a fat widow woman I'd take off again and this time I woudn't stop till I got way north of the Canadian border. Somewhere, where there ain't many folks. But then I guess there's bankers and lawyers everywhere you go now-a-days. Been a long time since i spend all day in the saddle, day after day. Would like to see if I still can. May have to just put a biscuit in a poke and hit the trail.

Did ya have a passel o' kids, too, or did you finally get a hankerin' for chasin' buffalo...?

The main reason LONESOME DOVE was such a good book, is because it is almost a word-for-word dramatization (I'll be kind, and not call it plagarism...) of David Dary's COWBOY CULTURE, which is a compilation of diaries and journals, including those of Goodnight & Loving. McMurtry gave other names to the characters, and added some relevant dialog, and voila--- the best book he ever "wrote..."

BTW, I love the many misquotes in this thread... Gives you an idea as to how rumors get started -- and perpetuated. Congrats to the few who get 'em right...

BigMuddy · Post by **BigMuddy** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:43 pm

No doubt my favorite movie of all time. I think it is in a class by itself. No idea how many times I have seen it, but it is a LOT.

Buck

Yeah I notice the "mis-quotes" too. No need to mention them. One time a friend's wife made me a needle point to frame with the quote on "rude behavior" and she got it wrong. I never bothered to tell her, but never bothered to buy a frame for it either for that reason.

I agree that LD is the best of the books too. I always said that McMurtry must have plagiarized it, because I think the writing style is different. IMHO the other books all were terrible, and the movies too.

I have seen several times that it was actually first written as a screen play for a movie for John Wayne and Henry Fonda. That never happened, and then McMurtry decided to write the entire novel. Not sure if that is true or not.

It is loosely based on Charlie Goodnight and Oliver Loving.

My favorite scene...difficult but for me it is the entire time Gus and Woodrow are in San Antonio looking for a cook. The dialogue between the two is what makes the movie for me, and that whole part of the movie has some of the best. The hiring of Po Campo, the whacking of the surly bartender, "now if I could have a fresh glass?", to the part where they are by the creek where Gus eventually gets buried...Clara's Orchard.

What in the hell's come over you Agustus?"
"I doubt You'd understand"
" I doubt it too"

"when were you the happiest Call?"
"Happiest about WHAT?"
"Just being a live human being, free on the earth"
"I don't know, it'd be hard to single out any one particular time I reckon"

and so on...........

There was mention of Custer....at the same time when Gus says "If a thousand Comanches cornered us in a gully somewhere and wiped us out like the Sioux just done Custer, why they'd be writin' songs about us for a hundred years"

That of course happened in 1876.

Rexster · Post by **Rexster** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:22 pm

Doc Hudson wrote: FWIW, I liked Jack Shafer's booik Shane much better than the movie, but liked the move simply because i am an Alan Ladd Fan. I'm not a great fan of High noon, even though I like Gary Cooper. Did you know that the Duke turned down the role of Will Cain because he thought the storyline too implausible.

I wear a badge myself, 25 years and counting, and I actually feel the High Noon story line to be all too plausible.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:10 pm

Rexster wrote:
Doc Hudson wrote: FWIW, I liked Jack Shafer's booik Shane much better than the movie, but liked the move simply because i am an Alan Ladd Fan. I'm not a great fan of High noon, even though I like Gary Cooper. Did you know that the Duke turned down the role of Will Cain because he thought the storyline too implausible.
I wear a badge myself, 25 years and counting, and I actually feel the High Noon story line to be all too plausible.

Today, yes, entierely plausible.

But in the 1870's or 1880's it sound pretty farfetched for a town with a tradition of backing the sheriff to refuse to help against only three gunslicks. John Wayne figured that a town that would not provide any backup for their sheriff was not worth defending, I really can't argue with him.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:05 pm

There can be only one number 1 ......Lonesome dove......I can think of about 15 very good other westerns in second place.
"Get your ropes boys".."You know the rules Jake,You Ride with an Outlaw You die with an outlaw".

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:35 pm

Doc Hudson wrote:
Today, yes, entierely plausible.

But in the 1870's or 1880's it sound pretty farfetched for a town with a tradition of backing the sheriff to refuse to help against only three gunslicks. John Wayne figured that a town that would not provide any backup for their sheriff was not worth defending, I really can't argue with him.

I also understand that Louis L'Amour disliked High Noon also. Something about no self respecting citizen in the ol' west would be that much as a wuss. See Northfield MN as an example.

As far as today goes, the law structure and civil suits keep us under wraps. When was the last time you saw a public official like a sheriff ask the general population to arm themselves to help. Won't happen either. They don't even allow us to defend ourselves if we are able to call for help instead. Another case of self reliance out the window. Gotta have big brother(i.e. Government) help ya or you become the bad guy.

LK

winchester1886 · Post by **winchester1886** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:11 am

Lots of good scenes and lots that are to slow, my favorite is when Capt Woodrow F Call runs his horse into the army guys horse and then proceeds to beat the stuff out of him, just love that scene. Also love Capt Woodrow F Calls character one of those people that nothing stops him just keeps coming.
Thought it was to long and drawn out would have been much better at 4 hours instead of 6 hours.
I much prefer Dances with Wolves thought it was much much better, in fact I would probably rate Dances with Wolves as the best movie I have ever scene, just the music from it puts me in a sad and somber mood, because we all know what happened to the Indians in the end.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:24 am

I like anything western....
Favorite parts...Whenever gus was talking....
Love his sense of humor...

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:33 am

Something that's always bothered me is at the beginning, when Gus has been out all night and is sitting, tending the fire for his biscuits. When he pops the top on the dutch oven, there are *no* ashes or anything else around. I guess they could say he was just keeping them by the fire to keep them warm, but it's a stretch. For all other details they got right, it would have been so easy to have wood ashes on the top of the dutch oven and he would use a lid lifter to take the top off.

BigMuddy · Post by **BigMuddy** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:50 pm

wecsoger

Good catch! There are other mistakes too, but that is one I never noticed. He does lift the lid with a rag in his hand, but you are right.....no coals on top. Any good dutch oven cook knows you need more on top than the bottom

.

I like Dances with Wolves too....but a Henry rifle dropping a buffalo.....????

Also look at LD and you will see the Henry rifles always have bullets in them. You can see the follower buttons are always toward the muzzle.

John Dunbar's Henry in DWW is always empty