125gr 357 Mag ammo from Leverguns and Revolvers
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- J Miller
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125gr 357 Mag ammo from Leverguns and Revolvers
There are some threads running here discussing what .357 load to use for which guns for what purpose.
My personal choice is the heavier 158gr + bullets in both.
However I thought I'd tell some stories about what kind of mangling and mayhem the 125gr .357 Magnum loads to.
First you have to understand that all critters are mostly furry bags of water saturated tissue. And that there is a thing called hydraulics
. I know this may not be worded to match any of the ballistically smart guys, but it will reflect what I've seen happen with my own two eyes.
So here goes.
Dan Wesson 4" .357 Magnum, full house 125gr JHP loads. I do not remember if they were factory or hand loads. One day a friend a I were shooting rabbits with our .357s. Every one we hit with this load EXPLODED. Bits and pieces of fur every where. Not enough rabbit to even skin for the pot. We found that even the tough jacks came all unglued when hit center of mass with that load. Yuck ....
Marlin 1894 CS 18.5" barrel. Load: Win .357 Mag case - Win S.P. primer - Hercules 2400, 17.5grs - Remington 125gr SJHP . According to Hercules reloading manuals of that time, this load produced 1,745 fps @ 39,900 CUP out of their test barrels. I don't know what length barrel they used.
When shot out of my 4" S&W Mdl 28 they locked up the extractor and they had to be pounded out. BUT ~ when fired out of my Marlin 1894 the difference was incredible. We had some areas that would flood and leave wet, but solid mud for a long time. We would shoot this load into this mud and it would make an opening crater a foot in diameter. We NEVER found a bullet, not whole or fragmented. The holes in this mud were sometimes two feet deep.
We would also fill aluminum Coke cans with water, set them on top of an Eisenhower dollar coin and shoot them. The cans would explode, the shredded metal going in all directions, the water inside would vaporise, and when found the bottom of the aluminum can would have the imprint of the coin on it. Clearly readable.
Now some may scoff at this, but this load simply produces hydraulic
pressures all out of proportion to it's bullet weight. I suspect that might be one of the various reasons it's so good on two legged varmints.
For a house defense load I would not hesitate to use it. Not from a revolver ( if it will hold it ) or a lever gun.
Just some stories from the past. Hmmmm, I still have some of those bunnie busting loads. Oh gee, now I need a .357 Mag lever gun don't I?
PS: How do you spell hydraulics
? My spell check says that is wrong, but won't spell it for me. It keeps giving me other variations of the word. Thanks .
Joe
My personal choice is the heavier 158gr + bullets in both.
However I thought I'd tell some stories about what kind of mangling and mayhem the 125gr .357 Magnum loads to.
First you have to understand that all critters are mostly furry bags of water saturated tissue. And that there is a thing called hydraulics
. I know this may not be worded to match any of the ballistically smart guys, but it will reflect what I've seen happen with my own two eyes.
So here goes.
Dan Wesson 4" .357 Magnum, full house 125gr JHP loads. I do not remember if they were factory or hand loads. One day a friend a I were shooting rabbits with our .357s. Every one we hit with this load EXPLODED. Bits and pieces of fur every where. Not enough rabbit to even skin for the pot. We found that even the tough jacks came all unglued when hit center of mass with that load. Yuck ....
Marlin 1894 CS 18.5" barrel. Load: Win .357 Mag case - Win S.P. primer - Hercules 2400, 17.5grs - Remington 125gr SJHP . According to Hercules reloading manuals of that time, this load produced 1,745 fps @ 39,900 CUP out of their test barrels. I don't know what length barrel they used.
When shot out of my 4" S&W Mdl 28 they locked up the extractor and they had to be pounded out. BUT ~ when fired out of my Marlin 1894 the difference was incredible. We had some areas that would flood and leave wet, but solid mud for a long time. We would shoot this load into this mud and it would make an opening crater a foot in diameter. We NEVER found a bullet, not whole or fragmented. The holes in this mud were sometimes two feet deep.
We would also fill aluminum Coke cans with water, set them on top of an Eisenhower dollar coin and shoot them. The cans would explode, the shredded metal going in all directions, the water inside would vaporise, and when found the bottom of the aluminum can would have the imprint of the coin on it. Clearly readable.
Now some may scoff at this, but this load simply produces hydraulic
pressures all out of proportion to it's bullet weight. I suspect that might be one of the various reasons it's so good on two legged varmints.
For a house defense load I would not hesitate to use it. Not from a revolver ( if it will hold it ) or a lever gun.
Just some stories from the past. Hmmmm, I still have some of those bunnie busting loads. Oh gee, now I need a .357 Mag lever gun don't I?
PS: How do you spell hydraulics
? My spell check says that is wrong, but won't spell it for me. It keeps giving me other variations of the word. Thanks .
Joe
Last edited by J Miller on Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
IIRC, the 125gr JHP recorded the highest percentage of one shot kills in that test...... I consider the 158gr JHP and JSP too distructive for small game.......
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
- Old Ironsights
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Yes, the Rem 125 SJHP +P "trooper" load is the #1 1-shot-stop load bar none.
That said, I still wouldn't use it on anything but 'yotes or 'yokels.
IMO They are strictly, and super effective, varmint loads... number of legs not withstanding.
That said, I still wouldn't use it on anything but 'yotes or 'yokels.
IMO They are strictly, and super effective, varmint loads... number of legs not withstanding.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
- J Miller
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old goat,
Believe it or not it did not give me that choice. But I'll fix it. Thanks for the spelling.
BlaineG and OI,
I totally agree with you on the destructiveness of the 125gr bullets. I haven't loaded any since that couple hundred I loaded back in 1988.
A varmint load, 'yotes or 'yokels describes it just about right.
Joe
Believe it or not it did not give me that choice. But I'll fix it. Thanks for the spelling.
BlaineG and OI,
I totally agree with you on the destructiveness of the 125gr bullets. I haven't loaded any since that couple hundred I loaded back in 1988.
A varmint load, 'yotes or 'yokels describes it just about right.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
I've got but one story about a 125gr JHP, and it's only because I've only gotten one kill with it.
It was a coyote sitting a little past 100yds.
Never took a step, stood there for a second, realized it was shot, and dropped...the exit hole looked about the size of a half dollar.
Funny thing is, it was a Remington 38spcl +p factory load out of my 1894c clocked @ 1310fps.
To me this equates to just around a 357mag out of a 4" revolver.
There's a reason it's been so highly regarded th past few decades... It works, and how!
It was a coyote sitting a little past 100yds.
Never took a step, stood there for a second, realized it was shot, and dropped...the exit hole looked about the size of a half dollar.
Funny thing is, it was a Remington 38spcl +p factory load out of my 1894c clocked @ 1310fps.
To me this equates to just around a 357mag out of a 4" revolver.
There's a reason it's been so highly regarded th past few decades... It works, and how!
- horsesoldier03
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- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
horsesoldier03,
Thanks.
Most of my bad spelling is caught by my spell checker. But you gotta get close for it to work. And the way I was spelling hydrolics < this way, the spell checker says it's wrong, but my spelling isn't close enough for it to correct to "hydraulics".
Joe
Thanks.
Most of my bad spelling is caught by my spell checker. But you gotta get close for it to work. And the way I was spelling hydrolics < this way, the spell checker says it's wrong, but my spelling isn't close enough for it to correct to "hydraulics".
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
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J Miller, I believe the term you are looking for is hydrostatic shock. IIRC that's the science that deals with how fluids react when hit.
Of course if I'm thinking, I'm probably working without tools again...
Of course if I'm thinking, I'm probably working without tools again...
Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
-Mark Twain
Proverbs 3:5; Philippians 4:13
Got to have a Jones for this
Jones for that
This running with the Joneses boy
Just ain't where it's at
- Old Ironsights
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Yep. That's it. Along with "temporary wound cavity", which, on small critters, turns out to be pretty permenant...
Boom!
Boom!
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Hydrostatic shock, "temporary wound cavity", are definitely part of what I'm talking about.
But I think hydraulics, the sudden movement of fluid is what creates the above conditions, and that's why I used that term.
I need me another .357 rifle so I can blow up another can. I still have some Eisenhower Dollars.
Joe
But I think hydraulics, the sudden movement of fluid is what creates the above conditions, and that's why I used that term.
I need me another .357 rifle so I can blow up another can. I still have some Eisenhower Dollars.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Speaking of 125gr. 357 mag loads -
I've been looking into loading some, myself. In my available loading guides, using 2400 as the selected powder, there's quite a variation in load data. One load that stands out, however:
Bullet: 125gr. JSP
Primer: Fed. 200
Powder: No. 2400
Max charge: 17.6 grs.
Velocity: 1,810 fps
PSI: 31,800
Barrel Length: 5.6"
That is simply a screamin' fast load. I originally saw this printed in the Second Edition of "Modern Reloading", and confirmed with a Hercules flyer from 1988. Perhaps the newer data booklets won't list as stout a charge, I'll have to check into that...
I wonder what that load would do out of a 18-20" barrel? Yow!
Do any of you have experience with this load?
- Tristan
I've been looking into loading some, myself. In my available loading guides, using 2400 as the selected powder, there's quite a variation in load data. One load that stands out, however:
Bullet: 125gr. JSP
Primer: Fed. 200
Powder: No. 2400
Max charge: 17.6 grs.
Velocity: 1,810 fps
PSI: 31,800
Barrel Length: 5.6"
That is simply a screamin' fast load. I originally saw this printed in the Second Edition of "Modern Reloading", and confirmed with a Hercules flyer from 1988. Perhaps the newer data booklets won't list as stout a charge, I'll have to check into that...
I wonder what that load would do out of a 18-20" barrel? Yow!
Do any of you have experience with this load?
- Tristan
Many years ago, when my pre-safety 1894c was young ... I loaded up some hot loads using 110, 125, 158 and 180 grain jacketed bullets. I don't recall the loads, but I used a lot of WW296 back then.
The 110's didn't group so much as they patterned, but I did managed to shoot one cottontail with a 110 JHP. The result wasn't pretty and there wasn't much left for the pot.
The 158s were so much more accurate than the 110s and 125s that I concentrated on the 158's and had the rifle zeroed for this load. 180 JHPs are very accurate in the 1894c as well, and they make a mess of small game too.
The 110's didn't group so much as they patterned, but I did managed to shoot one cottontail with a 110 JHP. The result wasn't pretty and there wasn't much left for the pot.
The 158s were so much more accurate than the 110s and 125s that I concentrated on the 158's and had the rifle zeroed for this load. 180 JHPs are very accurate in the 1894c as well, and they make a mess of small game too.
I've tried a slew of loads with the .357 in hand gun and rifle. I only use two loads now. The first is 6 grains of Unique with a 158 grain lead flat point, feels like a 22 out of the rifle and just plain fun to shoot with the handgun. The other is 18 grains of Lil-gun. I use a Hornady 158 grain hollow point for the handgun and a flat point with the rifle, with I might add is a 94 Winny. Last year a youngest took a doe whitetail one shoot with the handgun.