.357 Mag terminal performance from a carbine

[Jason_W]

I've finally got back to doing some tests. Moving the distance out to 50 yards really evened things up. The Barnes bullet was interesting, but I'm not sure the penetration justifies the cost over lead bullets. Unless you live in the land of condors, that is.

http://www.carbinecountry.com/.357%20Ma ... Tests.html

[TedH]

Nice report!

[rjohns94]

Excellent report. thanks so much.

[Tycer]

Excellent report.

Two things come to mind. One, the Barnes will leave a 3/4" hole in tissue. Two, the Remingtons are an old design that is still around because they work.

[AJMD429]

Excellent report. thanks so much.

+1 (...er, "+357" )

[Jason_W]

Glad you guys find it interesting. I have a lot of projects I want to cover before the deep freeze comes back in a few months.

I have everything I need to make my own saboted shotgun loads, except for the powder, which is out of stock almost everywhere.

[Old Savage]

Great stuff - thanks!

[Old Ironsights]

That 158 JSP did nicely... Now I'm just waiting for a report on the 180gr WhompumStompers...

[Jason_W]

That 158 JSP did nicely... Now I'm just waiting for a report on the 180gr WhompumStompers...

That's next.

[JReed]

Good reading May have to pick up a .357 barrel for my Handi Rifle.

[TedH]

That 158 JSP did nicely... Now I'm just waiting for a report on the 180gr WhompumStompers...

That's next.

I'd send you some of my cast 180's to try, if you're so inclined.

[Bis]

Great report, now if I could only get my hands on some of those Rem. 158 gr FPs.

[cshold]

Fantastic report.
If not already, your reports should be permanently posted on the forum somewhere.

[86er]

I really like the tests - good job! Could you put a bone in front of the ballistic material or IN the material after a few inches? That would be more telling regarding terminal ballistics on game. Another way to imitate "ribs" would be to use wooden tongue depressors just under the surface of the ballistic material. Let me know if you are inclined to try these.

[O.S.O.K.]

That 158 JSP did nicely... Now I'm just waiting for a report on the 180gr WhompumStompers...

That's next.

I'd send you some of my cast 180's to try, if you're so inclined.

+1

I'd be interested in the performance of a good gas check hard cast bullet - air cooled wheel weights...

I'd also be interested in how this compares to a 35 Rem with 200 grain round noses - 2000 fps. and maybe 170 grain Speers from a 30-30 and a gc hard cast 170 grain from the same.

[Old Ironsights]

He's got some of mine...

[AJMD429]

Good reading May have to pick up a .357 barrel for my Handi Rifle.

I had handi's in .357 and .44, but the .44 was just an experiment to see if the .44 Mag was as "inherently accurate" a cartridge as 'they' say (and 'they' are usually using a revolver, with which my shooting skills would not 'wring the most accuracy' out of AY round ). The .44 was very accurate (5 shots < 2" @100yd) using a 36x scope (hey, it was just an experiment ). I sold it pending my ordering a Ruger 77/44 bolt gun.

The .357 Handi was to become a .357 Max Handi, but after reading on the receiver types and 'bolt' faces used in the Handi's, I realized the .357's are on the wrong receiver for that high pressure round. I thought about swapping it for a .35 Remington one (even better way to throw a .357 bullet, and cartridge length no matter in the breakopen), but got a chance on a 1894 in .357 so made the trade.

The .357 Handi WAS a nice gun though, but I'd had my sights set on a .357 Max ultimately.

Now what I "really" need is a .358 BOS Magnum - 225 grain .358 bullet at 3,700 fps - - http://ammoguide.com/?catid=684

[JerryB]

An excellent report with great data. I will keep a copy for future use. Thank you for your good work.

[deerwhacker444]

Great job.! I appears to me that the 158 Rem will do almost everything the 180 Rem will do. That's nice to know. Keep the reports coming..!

[Cosmoline]

I've always wondered how that sort of thing would hash out. Thanks!

[SmokeEater2]

Great job! Thanks very much for that report,it comes just in time since I'm trying to decide which bullet to stoke my carbine with this deer season. The little Marlin rides behind the seat all the so it's the one that will get the targets of opportunity when the 1895 is back home in the safe.

[Jason_W]

I really like the tests - good job! Could you put a bone in front of the ballistic material or IN the material after a few inches? That would be more telling regarding terminal ballistics on game. Another way to imitate "ribs" would be to use wooden tongue depressors just under the surface of the ballistic material. Let me know if you are inclined to try these.

I like that idea. Maybe a rack of ribs in front of the material. Of course, it would be tough to shoot the ribs instead of putting them on the smoker.

[Jason_W]

He's got some of mine...

Thanks again for donating those. They're in the rotation for the next round of tests.

I'm guessing they'll plow through a lot of the material, So I'm thinking about putting up a 10" or so block of the stuff to show cavitation in front of a few sheets of plywood to gauge penetration.

[Old Ironsights]

I really like the tests - good job! Could you put a bone in front of the ballistic material or IN the material after a few inches? That would be more telling regarding terminal ballistics on game. Another way to imitate "ribs" would be to use wooden tongue depressors just under the surface of the ballistic material. Let me know if you are inclined to try these.

I like that idea. Maybe a rack of ribs in front of the material. Of course, it would be tough to shoot the ribs instead of putting them on the smoker.

Slice some 3/4" light duty white PVC pipe in half lengthwise and insert the halves about 1" back into the media with about 3/4" between each half. (Make it look like a rib cage). The PVC should flex/break about the same as the real thing...

[TedH]

He's got some of mine...

Thanks again for donating those. They're in the rotation for the next round of tests.

I'm guessing they'll plow through a lot of the material, So I'm thinking about putting up a 10" or so block of the stuff to show cavitation in front of a few sheets of plywood to gauge penetration.

I'd bet they will too. I haven't seen a deer yet that will hold one.

[dpe.ahoy]

Very good testing. I bought 1,000 of the Rem 158gr SP from Midway a year or more ago and they shoot great out of my 3 Handi's, the Marlin 1894C and my Rossi. I have since reamed the 3 Handi's to 357 max and will have to see what will work for them now. They still shoot the mags as well as they did before reaming. I have taken mule deer with the 158gr XTP's and they have always performed quite well. DP

[El Chivo]

Jason, would you be interested in doing some tests with the .358 200 gr Barnes in 35 Rem? I'm wondering if they will expand at 35 Rem velocities.

Thanks for doing this. I'm a little disappointed to see the performance of the XPB bullet, with the petals folded back flat like that. I thought they'd turn into a cutting wheel like in the Barnes video. I've been thinking about using them for my 35 Rem for hunting out here, but I may have to go with the 200 grain. It may not be the end of the world if they don't expand.

Anyway I could donate a few bullets, I have a box of the 200 grainers.

[Jason_W]

Jason, would you be interested in doing some tests with the .358 200 gr Barnes in 35 Rem? I'm wondering if they will expand at 35 Rem velocities.

Thanks for doing this. I'm a little disappointed to see the performance of the XPB bullet, with the petals folded back flat like that. I thought they'd turn into a cutting wheel like in the Barnes video. I've been thinking about using them for my 35 Rem for hunting out here, but I may have to go with the 200 grain. It may not be the end of the world if they don't expand.

Anyway I could donate a few bullets, I have a box of the 200 grainers.

I'd be happy to test the 200 grain barnes bullets.

As for the XPB, keep in mind that they are engineered for optimum performance at handgun velocities. Most data puts the bullet at approx 1200-1300 f/s from a 6" barrel. I was getting about 1800 from my carbine. Also, it did penetrate farther than any of the other jacketed bullets.

[Tycer]

Jason, would you be interested in doing some tests with the .358 200 gr Barnes in 35 Rem? I'm wondering if they will expand at 35 Rem velocities.

Thanks for doing this. I'm a little disappointed to see the performance of the XPB bullet, with the petals folded back flat like that. I thought they'd turn into a cutting wheel like in the Barnes video. I've been thinking about using them for my 35 Rem for hunting out here, but I may have to go with the 200 grain. It may not be the end of the world if they don't expand.

Anyway I could donate a few bullets, I have a box of the 200 grainers.

There is a school of thought that says that the more disrupted tissue in a wound channel, the more the red blood cells have to grab hold of and plug the wound.

I've tracked deer shot with Barnes that expanded perfectly on a double-lung shot that hardly bled, and all the deer I've shot with hardcast that moved from where shot, left massive blood spray with each step.

That being said, the Barnes 200s in the 35 Rem would be the right combination from Barnes.

[El Chivo]

That being said, the Barnes 200s in the 35 Rem would be the right combination from Barnes.

yeah, I guess you're right, but I was bummed to learn that they won't expand below 1800 fps. It's intended for 35 Whelen and similar, not 35 Rem. So unless you really hot-rod the charge, you won't get exansion after the bullet has gone 75 yards or so. Maybe a solid .358 would be effective, but I've been conditioned otherwise.

[Travis Morgan]

I'd like to see what the 180 gr. XTP and the Winchester 125 gr. notched JHP over max loads of H-110 will do; the 125 gr. load is supposed to do 1966 fps at the muzzle out of a handgun! I'd be willing to bet the Hornady 180 gr. HP/XTP will penetrate about as well as the Barnes did, with pretty high retention; I've fired them into hard wood, and they barely deform. In fact, for the most part, the bullet looks just fine, from the top crimp groove to the base.