OT: Colt custom shop SAA vs. Colt Cowboy ????

[Streetstar]

more single action questions ----


What the heck is the diff. between the new production SAA's for $1300 to 1500 bucks and the Colt Cowboy which i have seen on GB and another dealer i purchase from for 7 to 800 dollars ?

The case coloring on the custom shop models looks better, naturally, but other than that, There's gotta be something i am missing to justify the price difference

[J Miller]

more single action questions ----


What the heck is the diff. between the new production SAA's for $1300 to 1500 bucks and the Colt Cowboy which i have seen on GB and another dealer i purchase from for 7 to 800 dollars ?

The case coloring on the custom shop models looks better, naturally, but other than that, There's gotta be something i am missing to justify the price difference

The Colt SAA for $1300 is made in Hartford, CT by the original Colt folks.
The Colt Cowboy is an Italian made gun shipped here and finished by the Colt factory. It has a transfer bar action that is identical to Ruger's Conversion action. They actually had to get a license from Ruger to use it. It's no longer imported or sold by Colt.

My suggestion, ignore it.

Joe

[Hobie]

I have to slightly disagree with Joe about the Cowboy. I think the story about the Italian parts is a confusion with the early USFA/USPFA guns. I have read that the frames and another major part (barrel or cylinder) were imported from Canada. However, it is a cheaper gun made to compete with the USFA and Rugers at their price point and now discontinued. I would think the Colt SA is the gun to get but the USFA product seems better than either of the two Cowboys I've seen.

[Old Savage]

The Cowboy I saw I wouldn't have.

[SmokeEater2]

I've never seen one of the Cowboy models in person. I always wondered what they were like,seems like they came and went pretty darn fast.

[Streetstar]

I've never seen one of the Cowboy models in person. I always wondered what they were like,seems like they came and went pretty darn fast.

Must be a good reason for that --- maybe like the Colt King Cobra's vs. the Python on the DA side. "Pretty good" does not stand up to the industry standard i suppose

With transfer bar ignition and coil springs, the Cowboy model does sound likje an expensive vaquero

[J Miller]

I have seen the Colt Cowboy and I agree with OS I wouldn't have it.

Hobie, I have a gun magazine somewhere in my boxes of magazines from when the Colt Cowboy was introduced. It did say the gun was made in Italy, by EMF, FIE or one of the other alphabet gun makers.
I have three or four boxes of gun magazines and I have no idea which it's in, nor which brand of magazine it is, so ........... I don't think I'll be looking for it right now.

Joe

[Gun Smith]

I've owned a pair of Colt Cowboys and now own a pair of 3rd generation Colt SAA's.
I think I can give you a simple explanation of the difference. I started shooting with SASS with a pair of Ruger Vaqueros. I have small hands and the Rugers didn't feel comfortable in my hands. I sold them, and as I have had several 1st and 2nd Gen Colts, I thought I'd try the Cowboy model. The Cowboy is a less expensive copy of the originals as others have said. Mine needed smoothing and tuning right out of the box. It feels similar in the grip to an original, but the action has cruder rough different feel. I do not like the transfer bar in a single action. In a single action you load 5 and leave the hammer down on the empty, period!
I sold the Cowboys and purchased a pair of 3rd Gen Colts, with consecutive serial numbers. They had been tuned and I have to say they are the best Colts I've ever had. The fit and finish is way above the Cowboys, and they have that nice deep blue. The late 3rds come with the cylinder bushing as original. The early 3rd's had a solid cylinder bushing as part of the cylinder, and was not as smooth in operation. And when they wear you lose the whole cylinder. This requires you have it bored and fitted with a bushing, the way it should have come in the first place.
If you have the money a 3rd is the only way to go. About $1200.00 on GB. Cowboys are up to $8-900.00 for a lot less gun, in my opinion. Even if you use them a lot they are still going to retain their value down the line over the Cowboys.

[Griff]

Gun magazines are not always the be source for factual data. The Colt "Cowboy" is as Joe described... a Ruger in Colt's clothing... but made by Colt. Neither FIE or EMF had anything to do with it. EMF is simply an importer, & may influence some of the import manufacturers but... makes nothing but sales.

The following is what I've gleaned over the years from listening to some insiders talk candidly, and sometimes from what they "didn't" say outright: The Colt "Cowboy" was an attempt to comply with anticipated new gun laws back in the very early '90s, which did NOT come to fruitition. Thankfully! I suspect the HOPE was that the name Colt would carry them into sales numbers that would justify the expense... Since the conservation takeover of the Congress derailed the libs idea of social change at THAT time, the original SAA was never on the chopping block as it had been attacked from some corners as an unsafe, anachronistic (old fashioned or, out dated) design that should be outlawed.

Some project manager @ Colt probably thought they would be attractive to the cowboy action crowd... not realizing that those folks are, for the most part, traditionally minded. Like GunSmith said, the action suffers from the transfer bar. Although, IIRC, the early 3rd Gen SAA cylinders can be bored thru and a removeable bushing installed.

Maybe Driftwood Johnson would chime in on this, as he seems to have some special insights into Hartford.

[J Miller]

I guess I'm gonna have to hunt for the magazine. Then you guys can argue with them.
The Colt Cowboys were imports. I've seen them. In their worst days Colt couldn't put out garbage like that.

Other than that, Griff is right too.

Joe

[Gun Smith]

Dick Metcaff of Shooting Times magazine did a review of the Cowboy. There is no mention of any parts being imported. His article says the main differences were/are the investment cast grip frame, the faux case finish, the transfer bar system, and misc details. He said many parts are interchangleable with 3rd gen SAA's. The casting and finishing were the two main areas of cost savings. He said Colt developed it for CAS sport shooting to compete with the less expensive clones and Ruger SA's.
I can't believe he would not have mentioned being imported if it was.

[BigMuddy]

I don't know where they were made or who made them, but I do know I would not own one. I have handled and fired a few of them. I have never seen one that the grips fit and the actions are terrible. With more $$$ and action job can be done to make them shootable at best. When they first came out they were in the $450-500 range. I can't believe anyone would pay that much, and to hear they are going for MORE now is ...well amazing.

The Ruger New Vaquero is twice the gun for half the money. As stated, the latest version of the SAA's are some very fine guns too.

[Hobie]

I have seen the Colt Cowboy and I agree with OS I wouldn't have it.

Hobie, I have a gun magazine somewhere in my boxes of magazines from when the Colt Cowboy was introduced. It did say the gun was made in Italy, by EMF, FIE or one of the other alphabet gun makers.
I have three or four boxes of gun magazines and I have no idea which it's in, nor which brand of magazine it is, so ........... I don't think I'll be looking for it right now.

Joe

Joe,

I said I disagreed but I didn't say I was right! I'll look for that reference I had, you look for yours. I had so little interest based on the one gun I saw that I'm afraid the info didn't sear itself into my brain.

[DPris]

I've talked with a former project manager at Colt who was a major part of the Cowboy development, talked to an outside consultant hired by Colt toward the end of the Cowboy's run, and talked to at least three well qualified gunsmiths familiar with the gun.

The frame & either barrel or cylinder (never can recall which it was) were cast in Canada. Other parts were outsourced in the US, and the guns were assembled & finished in the US.
They've been rumored to be Czech and rumored to be Italian.
I consider both sources, men involved with the gun, to be reliable. I was requested by both not to mention the Canadian involvement, and didn't until some time after the Cowboy was dropped. Now I figure it's fair game.
Colt actually had plans to upgrade the Cowboy, then decided it wasn't worth further development.

As far as the gunsmiths go, I've not found one yet who likes to work on the actions, they consider the Cowboy inferior on the inside. "Mickey Mouse", is how one puts it. The external case colors may be brighter on some Cowboy samples, but it's a chemical process. The case coloring on the Model P remains genuine case hardening.

You can find people who have had good results with their Cowboys, and you can find people who haven't.

And, the pressed cylinder bushing on the third gen Model Ps is removable, is not machined as a solid part of the cylinder, & does not require an entire new cylinder when it wears.

Denis

[JustaJeepGuy]

...the info didn't sear itself into my brain.

That's 'cause you're not JFK Lite (John Kerry)