OT, maybe: .45 cal revolver cartridges round up.

[J Miller]

Lets see, just how many .45 caliber cartridges do we have right now? Here is a list of 10 of them. American only, and this may not be all of them.

01: 45 ACP - yes it's revolver compatible
02: 45 AR
03: 45 Special
04: 45 S&W Schofield
05: 45 Colt Government
06: 45 M1909 Ball Round
07: 45 Colt Hornady LEVERevolution - it has a shorter case than standard
08: 45 Colt
09: 454 Casull
10: 460 S&W Magnum

.45 cartridges short to tall.JPG

Some of these rounds are modern or updated versions of older obsolete cartridges.
>For instance the .45 ACP is the modern version of the original military .45 Colt, 45 Colt Govt, and 45 S&W revolver rounds.
>The .45 AR is just a modification of the ACP with a big rim so it will head space in revolvers set up to use the ACP with half moon clips.
>The .45 Special is a modern specialty round made up just for playing cowboy games. It's basically a .45 ACP case with a .45 Colt rim.
>The .45 S&W was designed for the big top break S&W single action revolver of the 1870s. It was contemporary with Colts SAA.
>The .45 Colt Govt round was a hermaphrodite of a round. Basically the .45 S&W with the .45 Colt rim. Those in my collection have the 250gr .45 Colt bullet as well. It was the cause of the nickname .45 Long Colt I hate so much.
>The .45 M1909 ball round is nothing but a smokeless version of the original military black powder .45 Colt round with a big rim so it would work better in the Colt M1909 military double action revolver.
>The .45 LEVERevolution is a modification of the standard .45 Colt so the longer pointy bullet will fit in most revolvers. The case is .050" shorter than the standard .45 Colt case.
>The .45 Colt, what can I say that hasn't been said so many times before? It's the best and the biggest of the non magnum revolver rounds. Capable even in standard form of stoping most any fight or flight.
"The .45 Colt; first, foremost, and forever." - J Miller
>The 454 Casull is a magnumized .45 Colt, that should really have a better following than it does.
>And the 460 S&W is a light artillery piece that really should have a gun carriage to tow it on. It's only reason for existence is because S&W had to have a great huge gun to sell so they could beat out the Ruger Super Redhawk, the BFRs, and the other really neat big revolvers.

I was just sitting here wondering how many different .45 caliber cartridges I could find in my collection. This is quite a few. And I'm betting I've missed some. I'm going back into my COTW and see what else I can find.

Joe

[Modoc ED]

Isn't there a .45 ACP Jet?

[J Miller]

Isn't there a .45 ACP Jet?

Don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Joe

[Modoc ED]

My bad Joe. It is the .45 GAP I was thinking about. It is a short version of the .45 ACP. There is a write up on the .45 GAP in the June 2006 issue of "Guns and Ammo Magazine".

[J Miller]

Yeah, I know about the .45 GAP. I didn't add it because it isn't an American cartridge, and I know of no revolvers chambered for it. Yes I know it can be used with the moon clips, but in all S&Ws and most Colts that I know of the ACP will work sans clips.

Joe

[jd45]

And the Ruger Acusport Bisley's acp cylinder doesn't require clips either. jd45

[Ysabel Kid]

Very cool! I see you loaded the Cowboy Special with a hollow-point!

[J Miller]

Very cool! I see you loaded the Cowboy Special with a hollow-point!

Yeah, I thought it would give the little thing a more aggressive demeanor.

Joe

[Kansas Ed]

FA used to offer the .45 Win Mag in an extra cylinder, though I believe they discontinued that option. I hated building 4 cylinder guns...

And don't forget the almost forgotten 45 Auto Rim. Which by all means should probably be forgotten....but never the less was chambered in the S&W M1917.

And then there was the Wildey proprietary cartridge...the .45 Wildey Magnum. Funny looking beasts, but from what I understand were built quite well.

Ed

Ooops I see you already listed the .45 Auto Rim, but abbreviated it to AR.

[madman4570]

I have got one of those S&W 1917 45 DA(firing pin on the hammer)Nickel plated revolvers. It shoots 45 ACP and its a hoot to shoot.If you tried to block that hammer with the web of your hand (say in combat) that baby goes right through your hand. Bang your ready for planting.

[J Miller]

I have got one of those S&W 1917 45 DA(firing pin on the hammer)Nickel plated revolvers. It shoots 45 ACP and its a hoot to shoot.If you tried to block that hammer with the web of your hand (say in combat) that baby goes right through your hand. Bang your ready for planting.

Even if it didn't go off the puncture and bruising will be very painful. I got a couple DA S&Ws that have the hammer mounted firing pin.

Joe

[J Miller]

FA used to offer the .45 Win Mag in an extra cylinder, though I believe they discontinued that option. I hated building 4 cylinder guns...

And don't forget the almost forgotten 45 Auto Rim. Which by all means should probably be forgotten....but never the less was chambered in the S&W M1917.

And then there was the Wildey proprietary cartridge...the .45 Wildey Magnum. Funny looking beasts, but from what I understand were built quite well.

Ed

Ooops I see you already listed the .45 Auto Rim, but abbreviated it to AR.

Both the 45 Win Mag, and the Wildey Mag were made for semi autos. And both of them were offshoots of the 45 ACP. I do have a 45 Win Mag cartridge in my collection but no Wildey. I didn't include them because they have had such limited run in revolvers that I didn't know they'd been chambered in one. My COTW #11 didn't mention that.

Joe

[J Miller]

And the Ruger Acusport Bisley's acp cylinder doesn't require clips either. jd45

Yep, and neither does any .45 ACP cylinder made for a single action revolver. Matter of fact I'm thinking of getting an ACP cylinder for IJ.

Joe

[JustaJeepGuy]

There's another you've missed: the North American Arms .450 Magnum Express. I recall it was a slightly lengthened .45 Win Mag, in a 5-shot SA revolver, that disappeared shortly after it debuted. The revolver looked a whole lot like the Freedom Arms, but the rear sight was better.

[J Miller]

There's another you've missed: the North American Arms .450 Magnum Express. I recall it was a slightly lengthened .45 Win Mag, in a 5-shot SA revolver, that disappeared shortly after it debuted. The revolver looked a whole lot like the Freedom Arms, but the rear sight was better.

Well, like I said in my OP; "And I'm betting I've missed some. I'm going back into my COTW and see what else I can find." Well, that's one I'd never heard of and my COTW didn't mention it. Do you have a picture of it I could look at?

Joe

[JustaJeepGuy]

No, sorry. I just remember seeing ads for it in some of the gun magazines about 25 years ago. I do recall that Ross Seyfried wrote a few lines about it once in an article about the heavy .45s. It was a rimless case and therefore headspaced on the case mouth, so it wasn't as versatile as the Colt or Casull in regards to the bullets it could use.

[adirondakjack]

Though not an american round, the first TRUE (.450) .45 was also the first Boxer primed cartridge of any sort. The .450 Adams, which is the grandfather of all the .455 Webley (aka Colt-Eley) rounds, dates to about 7 years before the 45 Colt. All the Ameruican makers despearately wanted Boxer priming, but it was tied up in a patent dispute between Adams and Eley (Adams likely would have prevailed, except they went broke, and Eley bought them to get the boxer patent, which they immediately licensed around the world.)

Another hermaphrodite was the .45 Webley (not .455), which had a Colt rim and was very close in length to the Cowboy .45 Special. It was designed for British foreign service revolvers because the winner of the bid couln't make enough guns, and COLTS made in Englan under license filled the gap, so a .45 Colt rim and a short case was needed to work in both the Webley Green and Colt arms (these were mainly used in india and so on, never on the British home front)

FWIW Joe, the Cowboy .45 Special is no slouch in RUGER or Marlin trim when loaded to it's poterntial. I ran a 230 gr XTP at 1400 fps out of the Marlin as a whitetail load (pressures likely in the mid 20s). Though not a match for the "Ruger Only" .45 Colt rounds, it beats the pants off ACP or even .45 Super).

[KWK]

Don't forget the .45-70 -- the BFR is still in production. Okay, it's a bit of a stretch, so to speak.

[J Miller]

OK guys, American and revolver cartridges was my theme. I only stuck the .45 ACP in because it made the transition to revolvers very early in it's live. And it spawned two other cartridges just for revolvers.

A-jack, I completely understand the potential of the .45 Special, but unless I read wrong you did design it more for the cowboy games than anything else ... right???

Joe

[adirondakjack]

Joe, Yes The basic idea of the Cowboy .45 Special was to make the .45 Colt guns work WELL for CAS, going head to head with the .38s in either BP or smokeless (it does, and we're well on the way to half a million rounds sold).

I only brewed up the hot load for the Marlin because I didn't feel like putting the Long Colt bits back in it, and yes, would like to be able to say I took a deer with MY round

Since then, I had the Marlin cut to 16", so retaining 10 round mag capacity requires use of the shorties

[Old Savage]

45-70