.45-70 Big Power At Close Range

[J Miller]

My friend in Glendale, AZ is considering buying a 45-70 for close up big critters. As were discussing he gave me the link to this article.

.45-70
Big Power At Close Range, by By Rick Jamison
Shooters' Feature Articles—Shooting Times, May 1997

http://membres.lycos.fr/shooter/divers/st705.htm


Nice read, though you might enjoy it.

Joe

[JReed]

Joe what browser are you useing? My internet explorer won't open it.

[J Miller]

Jeremy,

I'm using Firefox. It took it a while to open from here, but it did open.

Joe

[Rusty]

+1 on Firefox, worked here too.

[AJMD429]

Joe what browser are you useing? My internet explorer won't open it.

Mine won't either - the whole page appears briefly, but then locks up. Do you have to have a password or something?

[madman4570]

Netscape 7.2 works great.
opened within 3 seconds.

[J Miller]

I have no password or anything else. My friend just put the link in an email to me and it opened up.

Joe

[J Miller]

Maybe if you could go straight to the Shooting Times site you could do a search of the title and author. Joey not be puter smart, I have no idea why that link won't open in explorer.

Joe

[TedH]

Good article, thanks Joe.

[Old Savage]

Opened right up on Firefox.

[crs]

My Vista Internet Explorer first begins to open the page and then locks up with a message that it cannot proceed.
Oh well, Microsoft users are such a small market segment that they will not be missed from the audience.

[JReed]

OK switched to Firefox and no problems. Good article thanks for posting.

[J Miller]

I turned off Mozilla Firefox and turned on the IE6 we have. It opened the Shooting Times page in about 3 seconds. But then it wouldn't open Leverguns in a new tab. As I was trying to get Leverguns opened IE suddenly decided it couldn't open the Shooting Times page, put up a prompt that it couldn't open or display it ( after it had already opened it ),and the screen went blank.

I have no idea.

Joe

[Mike D.]

FireFox let's me see it instantly on my iMac.

The Hornady 350 RN has for many years been my favorite bullet for larger game.

[Old Savage]

Glad to hear that Mike, my best heavy load is 53.0 of 3031 with that bullet - gives me about 1870 fps with a 5x 1 5/8" group at 100yds. But I have never shot anything with it.

[madman4570]

Bought a H&R 2008 black Synthetic SB2-457(45-70) w/Burris 4x mini
on Gunbroker for $275.00 Had 6 rounds put through it the guy said.It looks brand new.Thought it would be a great little gun for patrolling my woods.
I wanted to compare it to my Ruger#1 45-70 so I just got back from
taking them both outside today, and I have to say that little Handi-Rifle shoots extremely good.The trigger is a little on the heavy side about 6-7lbs but very smooth.

I first used the buffalo Bore(405gr@2000fps)which it seemed there
was a definite noticeable heavier kick than the Ruger but it shot really tight groups.

Then I tried 3 rounds of the Conley Precision Cartridge stuff
405gr@2150fps,that was enough that thing kicked like HE**
The gun is about 7.5 lbs w/scope so it felt some big time recoil.
It shot well, but I was starting to flinch a bit and said thats
enough for today. The Gun tech I talked to did say the H&R
can handle the same power loads as the ruger.He stated that
if the action starts popping open after firing thats the cutoff point,and you should slightly back it off a bit.
I did not have any problems except for the shoulder smack!!
Got to love those 45-70 guns!!!

[Modoc ED]

Here's a good part of that article for those that can't get Joe's link to open:

45-70 Big Power At Close Range
Shooting Times ^ | May 1997 | Rcik Jamison

High in the Oregon Cascades, I squinted into a wet, blowing snowfall for the antlers of a bull. I could see elk moving through a couple of gaps in the young fir trees about 60 yards away, when I caught sight of a bull. I flipped the cover off my scope lens and waited for the bull to show in the next opening.

As the bull reappeared, I could see antlers distinctly through the brush. I shouldered the rifle and tried to look throught my scope, but the lens was covered with wet snow. I swept it off quickly with a wet, gloved thumb. When I looked up, the bull had passed the opening and was out of sight.

That was not the first time that happened to me. I've lost game several times because a scope was rendered useless by either rain or wet snow. Thinking back about my elk hunting during the last few years in this wet, thick-wooded region, nearly all shots have been less than 100 yards. All this got me thinking about changing my rifle choice.

One hunter I know bought a Marlin .45-70 for elk and fitted it with a receiver peep sight. He was so successful with the cartridge and receiver sight that several of his friends bought the same combination. Local hunters also reported one-shot kills with the 350-grain Hornady roundnose and 400-grain Speer flatnose bullets in handloads. The performance of these bullets on elk-sized game was reported to be awesome.

When you think about it, it makes alot of sense. The rifle/cartridge/sight combination seem like a good match, particularly for elk under these conditions. Big heavy bullets have the mass to deal a powerful blow to an elk even after passing through a fair amount of heavy ferns and light brush. And what better cartridge is there for big bullets than the .45-70?

Iron sights are plenty good for the effective range of the cartridge and the relatively short shooting distances encountered in dense brush and timber. So I decided to give the old .45-70 and a new Marlin Model 1895 chambered for it a chance. The Marlin Model 1895SS is an easy-carrying fast-cycling lever gun. I knew from past experience with lots of Marlins in other calibers that these rifles are plenty accurate.

While everything so far sounds good, there are clinkers in this peep sight and .45-70 plan. First, while a good receiver peep sight is fast to use, there is no denying the fact that a scope gathers light and is a better performer under low-light conditions. An optical sight works earlier and later in the day.

Second, many middle-aged shooters have a problem with iron sights due to far-sightedness.

Third, the .45-70 is loaded mild at the factory, and rightly so, in deference to the old and weak actions are chambered for this round, so if you want high performance from this cartridge, it's a handloading proposition.

SAAMI specs on the .45-70 call for 28,000 either in pounds per square inch (psi) or copper units of pressure (cup). On the other hand, Marlin's lever actions are known to be strong rifles. Marlin's own .444 round, for example, carries a pressure spec of 42,000 psi, same as the .30-30 Winchester. The newer .356 and .375 Winchester cartridges, rounds the Marlins have been chambered for in the past, have maximum pressure standards of 52,000 cup and psi.

SAAMI/ANSI specifications are relatively mild for the .45-70 cartridge in general, handloading manuals have separated .45-70 data into catagories that match the various rifle action strengths. Nearly every major loading manual has plenty of good data developing pressures specifically for the strong Marlin rifles.

I shot several varieties of factory ammo and its performance could be safely exceeded with good handloads in every instance with the Marlin rifle. So, while SAAMI standards limit factory load performance, this is not a problem for a handloader with a strong Marlin and reliable shooting data.

Fourth, the .45-70 shoots large diameter, blunt bullets at relatively low velocity. While these are killers at close range and great for busting through brush, they make for a lot of drop at any distance. The blunt bullets with poor ballistic coefficients (B.C.) not only drop a lot over short distances, energy is also rapidly dissipated for the same reason - blunt bullets. I was interestd to see the downrange drop and energy figures after I determined the velocity to be had from the loads in my rifle.

Putting the .45-70 To The Test

I figured that iron sights were plenty good for 200 yards, and I like to hit an elk with 1500 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) of energy. While shots are generally close, I want to be able to take an elk out at 200 yards in case the opportunity presents itself. Would the .45-70 shoot flat enough and have enough energy to do it?

Just for test purposes, I mounted a Tasco 1.75-5X scope on the new Marlin. I figured a more honest load comparison could be had with the greater sighting precision of a scope. The scope could be taken off, and the iron sights mounted, after I completed the accuracy testing and settled on a hunting load.

Four factory loads were fired from Federal, Remington, and Winchester. Five bullets and eight powders were tried in handloads. I experimented with several propellants including VV N130 and N133, AA 2495, 2015, and 2520; Varget; H322; and RL 7. As it turned out, my chosen hunting load was 50.0 grains of RL 7 with bullets weighing 300 to 405 grains, which are plenty heavy for elk.

With the components selected, loading and shooting soon revealed the performance of the handloads with my lots of components in my rifle. The highest velocity loading fired during the test series was 2173 fps from a 300-grain Hornady hollowpoint ahead of 61.0 grains of W N133. The case was a Winchester, and the primer was a Remington 9 1/2. The same 300-grain Hornady hollowpoint loading produced the greatest energy at 3145 ft-lbs.

[Bear 45/70]

................................With the components selected, loading and shooting soon revealed the performance of the handloads with my lots of components in my rifle. The highest velocity loading fired during the test series was 2173 fps from a 300-grain Hornady hollowpoint ahead of 61.0 grains of W N133. The case was a Winchester, and the primer was a Remington 9 1/2. The same 300-grain Hornady hollowpoint loading produced the greatest energy at 3145 ft-lbs.

So the guy is shooting Marlin loads (not even full house marlin loads either) and not real heavy stuff, Ruger #1 loads.