OT for Sixgun JR or railroad experts

[rjohns94]

watching the movie Appalosa and i have a railroad question. I see where they have water tanks stationed along the tracks to fill the old steam locamotives boilers. I have a couple of questions: one: how did they fill the water tanks (which were elevated)? did they have a hand pump? tender car to do that work? etc. Next question: when the water goes into the boiler, is there a seperate vessel for the water protected from the water already heated? I would think the addition of cold water would prevent the train from going on until the new water was heated up to 212 degrees or higher otherwise. Just things that made me go hmmm for the first time. I look forward to the answers. thanks

[Gun Smith]

Generally the tanks were about 50 miles apart. They usually were close to a well or other water source. They probably used a windmill to pump the water into the tank from the source. The engine tender held the water and fuel and water was fed to the engine boiler as needed.

[Don McDowell]

Along the UPRR the water towers were about 10 miles apart. They were filled with well water, that was pumped by different types of pumps. Some stations would of been windmill fed, most would be fed from powered centrifical type pumps, much like we use today only larger. The railroad had their own water service people that drilled the wells,installed and maintained all the water systems.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Water consumption, not fuel consumption, was often the limiting factor determining how far a steam locomotive could travel. After the steam had performed the work of driving the pistons in the cylinders it was exhausted out of the smoke stack. More water needed to be continually introduced into the boiler to replenish the supply of water. This was not only important to keep the engine operating, it was also an important safety consideration.

Water in the boiler was hotter than the normal boiling temperature of water. Just like a pressure cooker, the steam pressure in the boiler allowed the water to become super heated above normal boiling temperature. A vertical sheet of steel called the slope sheet separated the firebox at the rear of the boiler from the boiler proper. This sheet of steel was bathed in boiler water on one side, but exposed to the intense heat of the firebox on the other side. Normally, the water on the boiler side of the slope sheet allowed it to remain cool enough to withstand the heat of the firebox. If the water level in the boiler got too low, the slope sheet lost its cooling bath of water at the top and the heat of the firebox could cause the top of the slope sheet to fail. If the slope sheet failed, the steam pressure would vent through the rupture. The resulting drop in pressure would instantly convert the entire volume of super heated water in the boiler to steam. The intense pressure spike created was more than the boiler could stand, and the entire boiler would explode, usually killing the engine crew. For this reason it was critical that the water level inside the boiler be maintained high enough to keep the top of the slope sheet from overheating. Locomotive engineers continually monitered the water level in the boiler with a sight glass. Water from the tender was injected under pressure into the boiler after being run through a feedwater heater. The feedwater heater was a heat exchanger that used the heat of the exhausting steam to preheat the water before it was injected into the boiler.

The car behind the engine, called the tender, was a large water tank on wheels with a small fuel bunker on top. Generally speaking, about 2/3 to 3/4 of the car volume was the water tank, the rest was for fuel. Whether or not a train needed to stop for water was determined by the nature of the run. High priority passenger and freight trains were fitted with tenders large enough to provide enough water and fuel for the entire run. Lower priority freights often had to stop along the line, to replenish the water supply in the tender. In the early woodburning days they sometimes had to replenish the fuel supply too. In those days it was common for the railroad to contract with local farmers to supply firewood. The firewood was piled up next to water tanks along the right of way so the crew could replenish both the water and the fuel at the same time. Coal was a more efficient fuel than wood, and by the time coal replaced wood as the main fuel for locomotives, most engines could carry enough coal in the tender for their entire run, but the water might still need to be replenished. Hence the need for water tanks along the line. Towards the end of the steam era some long distance high speed passenger trains employed a scoop on the underside of the tender, for replenishing the water supply without stopping. A shallow water trough was installed between the rails. It was hundreds of feet long. As the train roared along at speed, the scoop would be lowered into the trough and the speed of the engine would force the water up into the tender. The scoop had to be raised before the engine reached the end of the trough. This was a pretty spectacular operation, with a huge plume of spray bursting out of the trough as the train sped along.

I recently heard a description of one low tech method of replenishing a train's water supply. It seems that in the Old West, sometimes a train would simply stop where a stream ran near the tracks, but no water tank had yet been erected. A hose would be lowered into the stream, or sometimes the crew simply used buckets to replenish the water supply. This was the derivation of the term 'jerkwater' town.

[TedH]

Very interesting stuff, thanks fellas.

[Cliff]

Water still is critical to the railroads. I worked for the old CB&Q at the laboratory for a short while back in the 60's. We had water inspectors whose job it was to inspect all watering stations along the railroad. This included testing the quality of the water itself, which was done to determine minerals in it. The modern watering stations had very large, essentially water softeners, to treat the water before it went into the engine. These were also performance tested. When I worked there the railroad only had about 10 water inspectors, but during the heyday of steam they had well over 200. Was a well sought after job with a lot of responsibility and good pay. All the various minerals, (calcium, etc.) would build up in the boiler tube and require them to routinely be taken out of service and cleaned out. Any down time was costly so they tried to minimize such. I was an interesting place to work. Everything the railroad bought or made was quality tested, including hammers, brooms fuels and so on. Back in the Steam Days in the early 20th century, my Grandfather was an engineer on locamotives and was in Texas for awhile. He had some pictures of a maintenance roundhouse which was leveled when a small steam donkey engine (used to move cars and stuff around the round house) blew up. Pieces of the engine were found over a mile away, he had some pictures of bodies and parts of bodies dangling from utility poles up to half a mile from the site of the explosion. Caused a big stir in its day. The engineer and fireman left the engine unattended and went to lunch causing it to overheat and blow. Interesting times for sure. He was an engineer from 1895 to 1935 and was forced out due to age.

[rjohns94]

thanks so much. Now I know. Knew the answers were available here. thanks again

[Jay Bird]

I only drive, I don't get dirty or wet. Don't even fill the diesel up. All I know is the last steamers were in the 50's for freight. I thought they were 20 miles apart because there is a town every 20 miles next to tracks. The Steamer we use for fun stuff (Frontier Days in Cheyenne WY) has a tanker car behined it w/ a new Diesel Electric.(just in case. ).

[Don McDowell]

I only drive, I don't get dirty or wet. Don't even fill the diesel up. All I know is the last steamers were in the 50's for freight. I thought they were 20 miles apart because there is a town every 20 miles next to tracks. The Steamer we use for fun stuff (Frontier Days in Cheyenne WY) has a tanker car behined it w/ a new Diesel Electric.(just in case. ).

Probably better pay a bit more attention to the inside of the timetables, and watch the sidings you go by. You'll be able to see the water tower foundations, at quite a few of them.

[J Miller]

train_steam_engine_md_wht.gif

This one just keeps on going and going and going and ....... it don't have a tender or tracks to run on

Some years ago, maybe 30, out east of Apache Junction, AZ a friend and I ran into some tracks and an intact water tower. Out in the middle of nowhere. It was ancient and both of us wanted to climb up and check it out, but neither of us did.

I wonder if it's still there.

Sixgun Jr, those helper diesels need to be painted so they blend in. They're ugly and don't look right coupled up to a steam loco.

Joe