OT - Reproduction Schofields

[kimwcook]

I've looked at a number of used reproduction Schofields and all of them show a severe bolt ring on the cylinder. Is this a common problem with the Schofield design or just a problem with timing and an early falling bolt?

I've seen a number of old Colt SAA's with a bad bolt ring on the cylinder, but I know that's because of a worn out bolt or badly timed one.

[J Miller]

I'd bet a box of primers that most of the drag marks on the old guns and even the new ones are operator error. Sure some are from worn or broken parts, but most are from mishandling.

If I remember what I learned from other top break revolvers they can be indexed exactly like the regular revolvers can. So there's really no excuse for the ring.

Note: I handle and work the actions on my revolvers all the time. Other than those bought used, none have full circumference drag lines on the cylinders.

Joe

[Ysabel Kid]

I bought my Uberti clone used - and that was the only thing "wrong" with it. I agree with Joe - most of this is operator error. Spinning a cylinder hard, then stopping it by thumbing back the hammer before the cylinder comes to a complete stop...

[Leverluver]

Common flaw (although cosmetic) of the design. It's not from spinning. The design lets the bolt drag and the scratch will be there. I don't know if the bolt can be shortened to stop it but all I have seen have it.

[Ysabel Kid]

Might not be from spinning on the Schofield reproductions, but that is a common reason for Colt's and Colt clones. Other single-actions as well.

Don't ask me how I know...

[J Miller]

All revolvers, double or single action, are designed so that the bolt drops just before the hand starts to rotate the cylinder. It has to be this way or the system will bind up.
After the cylinder has rotated past the bolt notch and is approaching the next notch the bolt will rise up to enter the notch.

Here is where it gets arguable. The bolt on Colt SAA and the copies, which include the Old Model Rugers will rise up at or just before the beginning of the bolt notch lead. This will leave almost no or no drag mark on the cylinder UNLESS the operator mishandles the gun. This I can prove to someone who's willing to learn.

Other guns will have the bolt rise up at different times. The bolt (latch in Ruger terminology) rises up much earlier on New Model Rugers. Almost centered between the chambers. This causes a longer drag mark similar to what is seen on S&W double action revolvers. But still does not cause a full circumference drag mark unless the gun is mishandled.

The Schofields being a S&W design will most likely have the bolt rising up somewhere between the chambers. I say most likely because I've never had one, but manufacturers are generally consistent. So even though there likely will be some drag mark, there should not be a full circumference drag mark if the operator has paid attention to how the gun works.

My H&R Sportsman 9 Shot top break revolver is timed so the bolt rises up in the bolt notch lead. It has only a tiny hint of a drag mark that was already there when I received this gun as a present so many years ago.
To prevent the drag mark is easy, just align the cylinder so the notches are lined up with the bolt. Hense; no drag line.
I'll bet the original S&W top break revolvers and the copies can be handled in the same way. And if done so will not have full circumference drag marks.


Joe

[kimwcook]

Thanks for the replies guys.

What I've seen is a bolt drag mark approximately half way between the bolt notches. On each and every Schofield copy. It's got to be a design flaw. What I don't know is if a good smith can time it to drop at the beginning of the leads. I haven't seen enough originals to know if it's common with them. Kirk?

[Hobie]

It is a question of timing and handling. Those I've seen vary from no turn ring to a severe, full-circumference turn ring.

One other thing. We had one come in for spitting. IOW, the chambers weren't aligning properly with the barrel.

[JimT]

This is not a comment on the question that was asked .. but I like it anyway.

[abcollector]

J Miller-

To prevent the drag mark is easy, just align the cylinder so the notches are lined up with the bolt. Hense; no drag line.

Joe, how do you align the cylinder to prevent this? Is it a gunsmithing job or can the average owner complete the job?

Thanks and good discussion.

[J Miller]

J Miller-

To prevent the drag mark is easy, just align the cylinder so the notches are lined up with the bolt. Hense; no drag line.

Joe, how do you align the cylinder to prevent this? Is it a gunsmithing job or can the average owner complete the job?

Thanks and good discussion.

abcollector,
On the top break revolvers like my H&R and others just line the cylinder up so the top chamber is in line with the barrel. This is how it sits when locked up, so when you close the action the bolt and notch are either lined up, or so close it just takes a tiny nudge to get it to do so.

All it takes is knowing where the bolt notch is in relation to the bolt before you close the action, or the loading gate.
It's much easier to understand if you see it done, or do it yourself as you read the instructions.

Joe

[Hobie]

This is not a comment on the question that was asked .. but I like it anyway.

This is worth quoting to see again... that is very nice...

[KCSO]

It's a Smith copy get use to the drag marks the bolt comes up where the mark starts and there isn't much you can do about it. A properly timed Colt the bolt comes up jut before the lead in and hence no or little markinng. I have a brand new S and W M 22 and by 50 shots into the game I had drag marks, curses!

[KirkD]

There should not be any dragging at all. Here's a photo of an original Schofield I used to own, made in 1876. It is in original condition. You can see that it has no bolt ring at all, and I was shooting it.



If the bolt is dragging, I don't see why it can't be properly adjusted; I adjusted mine. When I first received my S&W 2nd Model American Top Break made in 1873, it was starting to show a faint bolt ring. I took it apart, made some adjustments to the bolt, and now it engages right at the notches. The faint bolt ring you see in the photo below is all that shows on the gun after 136 years. Since I adjusted the bolt, it has stopped any further dragging. After about 100 rounds, it still engages perfectly.

[rjohns94]

Jim and Kirk, they are all very nice pistols.

Jim that is a Gary Reeder gun - any more specs on it?

[J Miller]

Kirk,
Do you have any links to exploded drawings for the old S&Ws? I've never seen the insides of one.

Joe

[KirkD]

I don't know of any, Joe. But I have the instructions and pictures in one of my books. I'm not home right now but I think it's called 'Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West' by Mr. Chicoine.

[JimT]

Jim and Kirk, they are all very nice pistols.

Jim that is a Gary Reeder gun - any more specs on it?

All I know is what is posted on his website:

When the replica of the S&W Schofield first came out I wanted to do something special to the gun, to make it unusual and even more different than it already was. So I sat down and started drawing sketches of the gun in various configurations. The one we chose to do is our Border Classic.

The Border Classic starts out as a standard Schofield that is furnished by you. It can be any of the current Schofields on the market and in any of the calibers. First we cut the barrel to 3 1/2 inches, do our Deep Dish crown on it, our Maxi Throat and lap the inside of the barrel, if needed. We then do our popular Gunfighter Grip to the gripframe and fit a set of stag grips to it. We then put a new front sight on the barrel and this is unusual too. The front sight is half of a solid silver Mexican coin.

We then full engrave the gun in the traditional style and finish it with our high polished Black Chromex finish. Our Border Classic can be personalized with your name or cowboy handle engraved and inlayed in gold at no extra charge.

Remember the Border Classic is built on your Schofield and can be in whatever caliber your Schofield is chambered in. And as we are going to completely revamp the gun, your Schofield does not have to be new. For one of the most distinctive and classiest cowboy guns we have ever built, check out our Border Classic.

[awp101]

This is not a comment on the question that was asked .. but I like it anyway.

That poor thing, it's got drag lines everywhere BUT the cylinder...

























Yes, I want one even though something like that isn't quite my style....

[kimwcook]

Jim and Kirk, those are some really nice pistolas. I really like the flowing lines of the Schofield.

[KirkD]

JimT, based on how quickly my S&W with the 8" barrel seems to jump out of the holster, that short-barreled Border Classic would be doggone fast.

[rjohns94]

Man, everytime someone shows off one of those schofields, i want one even more. i continue to look for one very special pistol and i'm thinking one of those would be IT!!!! Too bad I have original taste with repro funds.

[marlinman93]

Bolt stops dragging on original S&W single actions are not a coommon thing, nor are they considered normal. I've owned quite a few and I'd think after over 100 years there would have been quite a mark left if this was common. Most had either no ring, or very slight rings after all this time. If the repros have marks it's due to sloppy fitting.

[rjohns94]

http://www.navyarms.com/html/top_break_rev.html

this link has links to each model exploded views.

[kimwcook]

Man, everytime someone shows off one of those schofields, i want one even more. i continue to look for one very special pistol and i'm thinking one of those would be IT!!!! Too bad I have original taste with repro funds.

Mike, you and I are thinking alot along the same lines. I'd love an original, but wow they require deep pocket digging. The recent made S&W Schofields aren't made like the originals, I'd still love to have one, but again it's not an original.

[J Miller]

Mike,

Thanks a bunch.

Joe

[rjohns94]

yep, I know the firing pin is different on the year 2000 made Smith's and they are beefier but they look really nice. In addition, I'm liking the Uberti's which are suppose to be closer to the original. Again, neither are original. I'm looking at representives of those and an original at this time. the original is just a few miles from me so I am waiting for the owner to set up the time I can go see it. Otherwise, I'm thinking the Smith in .45 S&W as a place keeper. I just don't think I can hold out much longer. VBG